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[DE]Bear

Dev Workshop - Kuva Lich Changes Coming Soon™

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Players are still discouraged from playing with other people while farming Liches. This absolutely needs to be addressed.

It doesn't even require any significant development time, just revert the "bug" fix that removed murmur for teammates on guessing for your Lich. If it's deemed that this makes the grind too quick I'm sure most people would be okay with a slight increase in murmur requirements. 30/50/70 seems reasonable.

It would also be amazing if you gained some other worthwhile rewards while farming Kuva Liches. Like... I dunno.. Kuva? That would make it feel like less of a waste of time if you don't get the weapon/ephemera you want.

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WTB 85% electric/toxin weapons 1k ea

 

also i hope the system can be less of a grind by having the kuva lich test for all slots on the requiem instead of just the left>middle>right slots for the specific parazon, as in if i dont have any known requiems and i failed a netra on left parazon mod slot that it would reveal that it actually was supposed to go on the right slot, and so on

Edited by WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
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Will the transmutation system for them have any consistencies? Such as transmuting 4x defiled FASS to get a fully charged FASS or is it completely random?

Edited by Madway7
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6 minutes ago, CrimsonPenguino said:

How about no. The nice part about this system was the fact that you had to actually do this stuff on your own and farm it yourself. With that being a thing, it just makes it another thing that can be monetized. Now people can save their liches that have crazy bonuses on their weapon and trade it to someone for a ton of plat. That is a horrible idea. Incoming rivens 2.0

28 liches. No Khom. I.Dont.Want.More.Liches.For.My.Kohm

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Ok that's all good with me, but is there a way to make toxic players not prevent normal players from actually playing the game by not killing their liches ? 
'Cause it happens a lot, players who goes to Kuva Lich Territory, have their Lich spawn and say : ''Ignore it, I don't have the mods'' or ''uh I don't want to kill it because it will be stronger''. And honestly It's the only downside. I don't want those to prevent me from playing but I also want to play in pub because I can't mod right and I can't take Liches on alone for now. 
So any way to prevent this in the talks or anything ? 

Edited by Rukako122
Bad Grammar
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Even two weeks on I still believe the Requiem Relics are an unnecessary step used to bloat out the process and add additional RNG. The Requiem Mods being able to be fused back together is a step in the right direction, but the system would benefit immensely from either removing the relics completely, or making the Mods permanent.

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Great chenges
Still there is one issue
there gona be wp wich nobody cares about nor trade nor upgrade once wich roll super low- nobody wana have them nobody wana take them even for free they feel so bad
is there a way of"Fusing" them into your old ones to upgrade them by just a litle or somethink becouse nobody will wana have 25% -30% wep even for free

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35 minutes ago, [DE]Bear said:

Greeting, Lich Hunters!

After the release of the Kuva Lich System in Update 26: The Old Blood, you have been providing us a lot of feedback on what you do and don’t like about hunting your personal Lich. While we have made many improvements over the past week, we have more to come. We are adding the following very soon, based on your feedback:

  • WEAPON RNG REDUCTION - Your Kuva Lich will no longer have the same weapon twice in a row. While you may get a duplicated weapon down the road, your Kuva Lich will have a guaranteed different weapon than its immediate predecessor.
  • RECYCLE YOUR REQUIEM - 4 Defiled Requiem Mods can now be Transmuted into a random, fully charged, Requiem Mod. This gives them some additional use, as well as helping you clean up your inventory.
  • TRADE YOUR LICH - If you have a Converted Kuva Lich, you may trade them with another player, who may be looking for a specific Kuva Lich Weapon or Ephemera. This system will be coming soon, including the use of a brand new Dojo Room inspired by the early ‘War Room’ design from the King Pin System!
  • MORE TO COME - We are looking at other ways in which we can make the Kuva Lich system more rewarding and unique, although there is still a lot of internal discussion surrounding the ‘hows’ while maintaining the design intent. More on this as it is finalized.

Monitoring, tweaking and balancing this new process is an ongoing effort, and we rely on your feedback to let us know what you think. Please keep your feedback constructive and succinct, making sure you give suggestions to systems you do not like, while detailing why you do like a system, should that be your opinion.

The hunt continues!
 

 

What is going to be done about "bad roll" weapons? More specifically, weapons that you already have a very good version of, and that is so weak it cannot be realistically traded and must be completed to try again. They might have an Empheria, but then again, likely not.

You have to spend 2 to 4 hours to get a shot at something new and it feels rather... annoying or forced to "clean up" something you didn't want. You need to spend this time and you don't get anything but the conversion out of it, which might not have good trade value.

 

Similarly, is there anything in the works to allow us to force spawn our converted liches as we would a spectre? Some of us would like the ability to throw a beacon and call a buddy.

 

4v4 mode is something I think some of us daredevils would want and it would totally give the game something rather unique. The ability to have an entire party of Tenno against their liches in an all holds barred brawl. allows a group to have a reliable way to spawn all of their liches at the cost of making the fight WAY harder because it isn't 4 v 1. A real challenge to be sure, and not one for the faint of heart. But the prize is obvious, and the staging of a boss arena would give more weight and gravitas to the fight instead of random hallways.


Oh and Rad procs. Rad procs kill whole parties and make rad liches disproportionately powerful compared to other varieties. Get hit? Your whole party dies if you have ongoing AoE effects. 

Edited by Kalsarag
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Valence does not really solve the fact that DPS has become RNG, which I highly despise. I am more interested in making sure I can increase the bonus or fixing the bonus amount, not relying on RNG.

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maybe give lich a full loadout(primary, secondary and melee) of weapons and let us choose one of it upon defeating it?

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when will we be able to donate a non converted lich to the clan as steve mentioned
also great now i have to tear down my dojo again :l
when will we get a proper like map editor style dojo builder where i can move rooms around to better organize rooms for an efficient dojo layout!
i alreay dont know where im going to put the dry dock dont get me wrong i love new rooms but we need more dojo building tools see time splitters map editor

 

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32 минуты назад, Tromeo сказал:

taking a break 'till the rng reduction implemented... because am at my 3rd Drakgoon in a row 🤮

Almost same with Quartakks. 

Got first with 58% rad, then second with 55% rad. Then I got third with 52% rad, and I felt like smth is up. Yet I continued with my 4th 25% rad Quartakk. Now I have Lich with yet another Quartakk. Do not even know the stats, just ragequitted till this new feature will be implemented. It is probably the first time I ragequitted//

37 минут назад, Senguash сказал:

I'm still hoping we see some revisions to murmur requirements. 30/30/70 just feels really weird. 

If you have 24/30 (80%) murmurs on the second requiem, and you guess the second it puts you at 56/70 (80%) on the third one.

It's a weirdly huge swing, and it exceplifies why 30/30/70 generally feels a bit weird.

How about 30/40/50 instead? Or maybe 30/30/30?

And this might be a really good thing. It's basically will still be the same, yet as a minor correction it will provide a bit different progress flow.
 


And as a question, when will Kuva Lich hunter collection will be separated so I can obtain new armor pieces without spending extra plat on useless stuff?

Because spending ~900 plat is WAY too much

Edited by RusFire1
added a question
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il y a 32 minutes, [DE]Bear a dit :

- If you have a Converted Kuva Lich, you may trade them with another player, who may be looking for a specific Kuva Lich Weapon or Ephemera.

Wasn't the idea more like "beeing able to get ride of a lich we don't want / trade one in progress to a clanmate to provide them the weapon" ?

Steve mentionned it as a way to donate an active lich, that was either too strong or we're not interessed into or clanies would want the weapon for.

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An idea about the "co-op issue", where the Owner doesn't want to pet his Kuva :

In a 2-members squad:
The teammate will have to "press Parizon-action" for few seconds (3 to 5) to confirm that: 1-) it's not HIS Liche; 2-) it is wanted to get rid of the Liche;

In a 3&4-members squad:
Like in the Arbitration (where multiple players can help a down-tenno back in his feet) : at least 2 members will have to "presse Parizon-action" to get rid of the Liche.

On the animations:

The squad-members' warframe will try to contain, keep the Liche on the Ground: to incapacitate the Liche.
Enraged, the Liche will violently break free & flee.

Consequences: the Liche will be enraged & will reappear (100%) in the next mission done by the Owner inside the Liche'controled territory.

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Is it normal/intended for players to be handed a 2 weeks trade ban for doing 4h30 of kuva survival (fissure)? I dont really understand the concept of punishing players for doing endurance runs when they are not much rewarding in the first placeUpKGtbU.png

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14 minutes ago, Rukako122 said:

Ok that's all good with me, but is there a way to make toxic players not prevent normal players from actually playing the game by not killing their liches ? 
'Cause it happens a lot, players who goes to Kuva Lich Territory, have their Lich spawn and say : ''Ignore it, I don't have the mods'' or ''uh I don't want to kill it because it will be stronger''. And honestly It's the only downside. I don't want those to prevent me from playing but I also want to play in pub because I can't mod right and I can't take Liches on alone for now. 
So any way to prevent this in the talks or anything ? 

One possible solution is to add incentives to fight higher level liches (10k Kuva per rank when you kill your lich for example), and slightly reduce their armor scaling/resistance scaling so they're not so absurd to fight at rank 5 without a broken build.

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These proposed changes are interesting and all, but...

- There is a need for an opt-out mechanic / "peace offering" option for players that have a Lich nemesis that they don't or no longer want to fight for whatever reason.

- A Lich ally's contribution to gameplay is largely insignificant. The Lich will only show up at random when player health is very low and will leave after only 2 minutes. Lich allies need to be far more reliable to justify the grind spent obtaining them. Allow a Lich ally to be summoned via a deployable beacon.

- Attempting a kill or conversion on a Lich nemesis with the Parazon without the right mod sequence or any mods should not result in the player dying, nor should it automatically level up the Lich. This is needlessly punishing. Instead, the Lich should only initiate an emergency teleport escape so it can fight another day. In addition, the Lich should only be able to level up if it defeats the player in an actual fight. We level our weapons and 'Frames by defeating enemies. It should be no different with a Lich. When the Lich defeats a player, it should teleport away and level up. When it levels up, it only reclaims the nodes the player previously cleared out but doesn't spread further.

- Having Kuva and Ayatan Amber Stars as possible rewards for cracking open Requiem Relics is nothing more than needless drop-table filler. Please remove these items.

- Having Kuva Weapons require no less than 5 Forma each to get Mastery for them is inconsistent with how other weapons work and forces a lot of grind on players. Don't even bring the Paracesis into this - it's not even comparable in terms of acquisition and origin.

- When generating a Lich nemesis for a player, you could go one of two routes.

 The first would be to check for existing Kuva weapons in the player's inventory and only equip the Lich with a random weapon that the player does NOT have. This would to prevent instances of players winding up with duplicate Kuva weapons. If the player has all the Kuva weapons that are available, the game is allowed to generate a random Kuva weapon for the Lich nemesis. There's still a bit of grind and randomness involved to get the weapon you want, but as stated earlier, at least there's no chance of getting a duplicate weapon.

Another idea would be to give the Larva a regular version of the Kuva weapon it would get if it became a Lich nemesis. This way, players can quickly decide as to whether or not to simply gun down the Larva and let it die or trigger it so that it turns into a Lich with the appropriate Kuva weapon. The second solution gives the player more agency and a better idea of what they'd wind up getting at the end of the grind.

Edited by MirageKnight
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il y a 34 minutes, [DE]Bear a dit :

We are looking at other ways in which we can make the Kuva Lich system more rewarding and unique, although there is still a lot of internal discussion surrounding the ‘hows’ while maintaining the design intent. More on this as it is finalized.

One idea that came to my mind about the possibilities of the Kuva Lich system and lore is that it could be a way to provide a legit "modular warframe" creation system.

The Grineer create some kind of warframesque units, using kuvas and tenno magic to produce those liches. But it seems they don't really master correctly what they do xD.

The only other occurence of "modular" warframe is the Stalker's Acolytes. Maybe it would be a good way to bring the Stalker Mod and all the stalker syndicat thingy, but that's up to you to choose from there.

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Soooo... what about elemental kuva weapons still not calculating their bonus with the elemental in mind? Kuva Ogris gains at the very most 16 damage.

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22 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Awesome!

Any chance DE could look into upgrading Kuva weaponry? As in, if I own a 50% Toxin Kuva Kohm, and I keep getting 25-30% Toxin Kuva Kohms, I could fuse them into my 50% Toxin Kuva Kohm to slightly work my way up to 60%? Valence Transfer is nice, but it does not address duplicates with poor stats. This would also make farming the Ephemeras less painful as the Impact/Magnetic/Cold buffs could be used in the fusion process.

In the upcoming changes, I could convert the Lich and trade the contract away to solve the duplicates issue, but I don't see how another player would value my contract unless they were missing the Kohm entirely from their inventory.

Also, Could the Bonus Relic in Kuva Survival Requiem Fissures be a Requiem Relic? This would make the endurance mode a bit more rewarding without breaking the system.

-How would you feel about using Kuva to just "upgrade" a weapon? Even without that part, selling weapons could give kuva.
-Killing liches could also grant Kuva, essentially adding more diversity to the kuva farm
-As well as making the other requiem modes feel as awesome as Requiem survival feels (Kuva + Requiem Mods + Potential Bonus Requiem relic should they take your advice). 

Even without using Kuva to upgrade, and using your combination it should achieve the goal of more progression over luck while making the system more sustainable/replayable as a whole.

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Still no way to upgrade existing weapons with new ones in order to achieve that max 60%. 0/10 DE.


Edit: comment from a discussion in reddit which is relevant:

Quote

Still no way to upgrade your kuva weapons with inferior copies so that's a 0/10 for me. If anyone feels disgusted by this update, by all means, I encourage you to downvote the game on steam which is what I've done. This new system is a colossal waste of time and effort. For the record, I have close to 30 kuva liches defeated and I have yet to receive kuva stubba or a single ephemera. most of the weapons I've received have sub-par elemental bonuses with no way of progressing them. All the while spending charges on my requiem mods, excellent...

 

Edited by Zoero
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what do u think guys about dat fact what in solo mode its way more easy to farm ur lich. not with friends/random pub. am i play in solo game or what? can u return sharing of murmur please?

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Will we be able to trade with clanmates only or with everyone ingame? Because this sounds like an awfully similar system to Rivens. I don't want Liches to become a 60% bonus elemental damage slot machine, because you can't reliably farm for the best bonus to begin with and everyone is gonna want the best bonus they can get.

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