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Dev Workshop - Kuva Lich Changes Coming Soon™


SilverBones

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Every single point you make has had alternative suggestions posted either in this thread one of the many others about the Kuva Lich grind.

For some reason No member of DE staff will comment (is allowed to comment?) on this subject.

We were promised that answers to some of the questions we asked would be given on the last dev stream, but, when the stream aired all we were told was that Kuva Liches would now drop Kuva, adding yet another way to farm it to the game (Siphons, Survival, Requiem Relics and now Liches)

We can only assume that either any changes to the system are still in discussion, possibly not so easy to implement? Or, DE simply do not give a flying flock about the whole thing.

Personally, I'd like to know if the issues will be covered in the next dev stream, or, failing that would it be possible for us to have some kind of official statement posted here on the forums? It can be a locked thread it doesn't matter, just as long as we're told what's happening in the future of The Old Blood.

I'm asking because the Kuva Lich system (according to [DE]Steve on his own stream) is going to be expanded to Corpus and Infested, and, if those two factions are simply going to be more of the same grind and RNG walls, and no changes are going to be implemented to improve the system at all then this whole thing is going to kick off again when they launch, and the forums seem to be full of unhappy people enough at the moment without adding to them.

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46 minutes ago, Fl_3 said:

Every single point you make has had alternative suggestions posted either in this thread one of the many others about the Kuva Lich grind.

For some reason No member of DE staff will comment (is allowed to comment?) on this subject.

this, they say they want us to give suggestions and feedback to improve the system but i highly doubt anyone asked for half of the changes made to the system since it came out, not a single thing people asked for or suggested has been put into the system as far as i know

you could say trading, but even then a bounty system was being talked about for liches from the start, hell i swear steve talked about it on the stream he did just as the update was about to be launched, where you could just put a lich that was after you on a bounty board in your clan dojo and it was out of your hair and you could get another if you wanted, so they already had a way to do it, but that never made it into the game and instead we got the sh1t lich trading we have now, which doesnt help at all since you still have to waste time hunting a sh1tty lich you dont want

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On 2019-11-27 at 6:22 PM, Joltyboi said:

this, they say they want us to give suggestions and feedback to improve the system but i highly doubt anyone asked for half of the changes made to the system since it came out, not a single thing people asked for or suggested has been put into the system as far as i know

you could say trading, but even then a bounty system was being talked about for liches from the start, hell i swear steve talked about it on the stream he did just as the update was about to be launched, where you could just put a lich that was after you on a bounty board in your clan dojo and it was out of your hair and you could get another if you wanted, so they already had a way to do it, but that never made it into the game and instead we got the sh1t lich trading we have now, which doesnt help at all since you still have to waste time hunting a sh1tty lich you dont want

One thig is for certain, the things we were promised in Dev streams are nothing like we have now more's the pity.

And DE still refuse to answer any of the players questions.

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A system to add a smal % to the current bonus giving a reason for weak weapons.

 

Current Kuva weapon with 50% toxin merged with an extra kuva weapon that had 22% toxin would result in (maybe) 52% toxin dmg for the weapon (10% of the weapon bonus transfered).

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Thankyou for the fixes your making to the Kuva Lich system.

RNG is still going to be a massive problem, and I know for a fact that there are many players including myself who would like this to be addressed.

I have to say it was disappointing that you didn't mention the issues with RNG during the dev stream last night, but I'm sure people are too busy working on Empyrion and New War to spend too much time working on Old Blood.

We shall expect further improvements in the new year as [DE]Steve stated during the stream.

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8 hours ago, (PS4)SLASH3R_M1KE said:

Convert, Vanquish, or Consume.  Consume dissolves the lich into 10k - 20k Kuva but sacrifices any weapon or ephemera they may have equipped.

Or, to simplify it, add the option at Iron Wake for an NPC to dissolve the weapon you got from a vanquished lich into kuva. There might be an issue with this becoming the meta kuva source, or if it's too low, using the meta kuva source to buff the weapon instead. Adding "tainted kuva" might solve that, as in the weapon dissolves into a few k kuva (less than same time investment in kuva survival) and enough tainted kuva to buff an existing weapon a bit. Or, forego the resource to buff weapons and do it through arcanes. Each weapon dissolves into an r0 arcane, arcanes give +15/30/45/60% at r0/1/2/3, weapon only has element that will be boosted, no number, arcanes are weapon-specific so you can't use brakk arcanes on a seer, etc. Then you need to farm 11 of each weapon for max stats, more if you want different element versions. 11 each of 13 weapons at 2 hours each is 286 hours with near perfect RNG. 7 full time working weeks of content, minimum, and almost all liches would be equally in demand for trading as they give arcanes.

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22 hours ago, Fl_3 said:

Thankyou for the fixes your making to the Kuva Lich system.

What fixes? The only beneficial change that they've done is that you now need to actively create one rather than having one suddenly shoved on you simply because you were in a L20+ grineer mission.

Everything else - the entire legion of problems - has been completely ignored.

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3 hours ago, DoomFruit said:

What fixes? The only beneficial change that they've done is that you now need to actively create one rather than having one suddenly shoved on you simply because you were in a L20+ grineer mission.

Everything else - the entire legion of problems - has been completely ignored.

Pretty much the ability to skip one Lich a week, which is something that the player base asked for, although it would have been nice to have it implemented in a better way that "talk to some minor NPC who we've pretty much ignored since it was introduced into the game as part of Chains of Harrow"

It was pretty much a sarcastic "Thankyou" because once again, DE says they've listened to player feedback only to ignore most of it because of reasons we'll never know because DE refuses to speak to the people responsible for keeping them in the games development business. IE, the players.

Digital Extremes really doesn't seem to give a jot about their reputation these days.

 

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On 2019-12-07 at 11:28 AM, (PS4)SLASH3R_M1KE said:

Relics drop from thralls, Kuva siphons at 50%, Kuva flood at 100%, and Syndicate rewards for 40k - 50k standing for a 3 pack.

Another good possibility here would be to have Requiem relics replace normal ones on Kuva Survival's loot table.

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Le 07/12/2019 à 23:28, (PS4)SLASH3R_M1KE a dit :

There is nothing more disappointing than spawning a lich with no ephemera, a weapon you don't want or already have, with a low elemental bonus.

agree.. multiply by 4 times, even patient people can get angry with this system. some people hate wasting their time.

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What I find as the main problem of kuva lich system is it's lack of integration with starchart, lore and enjoyment - it exists in a vacuum, with  the singular purpuose of delaying our access to some weapons and ephemeras, without offering anything worthwhile "per se" from the experience itself.

If grinding for murmurs was actually engaging and generated its own narrative based on your choices (prioritizing staving off lich attempts at sector domination, or going after its lieutenants, or sistematically sabotaging its bases and ships...), the old blood would be something I'd enjoy playing for the sake of the "travel" itself, not the "destination" (loot).

The system had the potential to make even regular star chart activities in something "personal", narrating your own feud against one of the numerous lich generals of the queen, from the rise of "your" lich, through countless skirmishes to prevent grineers to take a firmer grip on the origin system, to that lich final demise...

what we have offers nothing

As it stands Old Blood is someting to rush trough just to get rid of it, as it's grinding cycle cuts you off of regular star chart activities: you farm murmurs, or you do something else, but get your loot stolen anyway...

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8 hours ago, Ikusias said:

What I find as the main problem of kuva lich system is it's lack of integration with starchart, lore and enjoyment - it exists in a vacuum, with  the singular purpuose of delaying our access to some weapons and ephemeras, without offering anything worthwhile "per se" from the experience itself.

If grinding for murmurs was actually engaging and generated its own narrative based on your choices (prioritizing staving off lich attempts at sector domination, or going after its lieutenants, or sistematically sabotaging its bases and ships...), the old blood would be something I'd enjoy playing for the sake of the "travel" itself, not the "destination" (loot).

The system had the potential to make even regular star chart activities in something "personal", narrating your own feud against one of the numerous lich generals of the queen, from the rise of "your" lich, through countless skirmishes to prevent grineers to take a firmer grip on the origin system, to that lich final demise...

what we have offers nothing

As it stands Old Blood is someting to rush trough just to get rid of it, as it's grinding cycle cuts you off of regular star chart activities: you farm murmurs, or you do something else, but get your loot stolen anyway...

It's interesting that as the Kingpin/Nemesis was in development for so long that it doesn't feel more integrated into the game. It's been mentioned before that it just feels like some cheap after market bolt on, but, DE has been very thrifty with lore in the past few years. A lot of things have happened in Warframe that have no explanation.

Honestly? I'm not expecting any changes to the Lich system soon, during the last Dev Stream [DE]Scott did state that changes will be coming to the Lich system, but, not until the new year.

Notes have been made Digital Extremes, and I (along with many other players?) am awaiting your improvements to the Lich system.

I do have to wonder though, why throwing out more (according to the forum posts I've read this morning so far) unfinished, unpolished content is more important than fixing the unfinished, unpolished content that you released previously?

Can we have a reason for that?

Because a lot of us would like to see a few answers from you.

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

hey I have done like 60 Kuva Liches till now and still I never got even a Single one Ephemera from them and because of that I bought them (almost all of them) but I am asking myself, if we really having 10% to getting Lich with Ephemera that means I must get it at least 5 times 😕 and the farming way of the liches is way too long 😞 any Help in this matter DE ?

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31 minutes ago, --PV--RAWAD said:

hey I have done like 60 Kuva Liches till now and still I never got even a Single one Ephemera from them and because of that I bought them (almost all of them) but I am asking myself, if we really having 10% to getting Lich with Ephemera that means I must get it at least 5 times 😕 and the farming way of the liches is way too long 😞 any Help in this matter DE ?

Pure RNG. The chance of doing 60 Liches and getting zero ephemera is a frustrating but very real 0.17%

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On 2019-11-11 at 10:28 PM, [DE]Bear said:
  • RECYCLE YOUR REQUIEM - 4 Defiled Requiem Mods can now be Transmuted into a random, fully charged, Requiem Mod. This gives them some additional use, as well as helping you clean up your inventory.
  • MORE TO COME - We are looking at other ways in which we can make the Kuva Lich system more rewarding and unique, although there is still a lot of internal discussion surrounding the ‘hows’ while maintaining the design intent. More on this as it is finalized.

"RECYCLE YOUR REQUIEM" - DE, Please no more RNG and loot boxes! Learn from how EA wrecked game with loot box system and move on.

"MORE TO COME" - Please remove ultra-rare random spawns of converted liches and make them useful with summon on-demand. So this would make them wanted gameply element instead of just farming their weapons. Also followers need tactical command options instead of just follow/hold only for really long time.

And the whole system with getting kuva lich to converting/killing them need rework. Why players need to go such great lengths of farming murmur for just sticking knife in lich head? It should be straight forward challenging and interesting gameplay in first place instead.

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Just let us dump these things already. It is absolutely zero fun to grind out an entire Kuva Lich knowing I am not going to get anything out of it. I don't need a 4th Kuva Kraken and I have been unsuccessful in trading the 2 I keep spamming into trade chat and Discord. 

I have had 9 Kuva Liches and I have 5 Kuva weapons, out of a possible 13. How is that math even possible? 

 

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You know what would be nice? If ALL Grineer troops dropped murmers upon mercy-killing, regardless of mission type - instead of further compartmentalizing the game by requiring specific missions to collect murmers and thereby ensuring the mode will be forgotten unless specifically farming. This should at the very least be true in Lich-controlled areas.

This could later apply to the other factions when they get a Lich equivalent, and Invasion missions could reward bonus murmers from the faction you're working for, allowing the potential to farm two faction murmers at once - giving Invasions added usefulness and relevance.

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Here's a simple solution to the RNG Elemental Bonus that completely bypasses the worthless RNG mechanic entirely: Tie the elemental bonus stat to Lich Levels. It'll give Lich Levels a defined existence outside of increased mission difficulty.

Another suggestion is to turn Converted Liches into Companions with varying degrees of customizations.

Don't leave the Lich system as it is until you add the Corpus variant, address the issues in the here & now! Show the community that you care about our feedback, that you won't put it on the back-burner while prioritizing "new" stuff.

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Why not making the KUVA lich system connected to KUVA? Make it that it's only in Kuva Fortress. Possibly with Larva spawning in Kuva Survival only. And add 3rd option for defeated Lich - Syphon Kuva - to make it a way of farming kuva outside of normal Kuva missions. This would possibly solve 3 things - newbies starting Lich without knowing the difficulty, lack of players doing the Lich nodes (as all would do it on Kuva Fortress) and a reason to do Lich other then weapon. At top of that it would make sense that the Kuva Lich would be there and have an high level greneer army.

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