Dev Workshop - Kuva Lich Changes Coming Soon™

[Irhyo]

46 minutes ago, [DE]Bear said:

TRADE YOUR LICH - If you have a Converted Kuva Lich, you may trade them with another player, who may be looking for a specific Kuva Lich Weapon or Ephemera. This system will be coming soon, including the use of a brand new Dojo Room inspired by the early ‘War Room’ design from the King Pin System!

WTT like 10 disappointments for a vengeful chill ephemera.

 

I'll wait to see how this works, but hopefully they'll only be tradable for other lich contracts.

Is there any way for us to just get rid of our current lich or, at least, get all lich details from the larva? As in if the larva has has a kuva ogris, then the lich will have the kuva ogris as their weapon. Same with ephemeras.

[yarl5000]

So for the lich trading.  I have to convert my lich to give it to someone else, then are they able to kill it? I take it the mod order would change for them or is it a freebie for the friend.  also how big is the dojo room?

 

Still no solution for what to do with a weapon that is weaker than the one you already have. Can we trade them in Iron wake for like a riven or requiem relics or kuva, just something to do with the junk weapons.

[--RV--arm4geddon-117]

The problem associated with duplicates and connected to the potential solution of trading/getting rid of liches, it's not the duplicate per se but the time needed to get rid of the lich.

Now while i understand that you don't want people to re roll one larvaling after another, trading liches AFTER CONVERTING them doesn't do jack shi_t because it's not solving the issues of having to farm relics/traces,farming murmurs, waste requiem charges and overall wasting 1h and half / 2 hours before getting to the point we can kill/convert a lich and then hope for a better rng with weapons

Let us dismiss a lich for 1M/2M credits and call it a day, without forcing people to waste the aforementioned time and resources to get there, also doesn't solve the fact that you get stuck with your xxxth duplicate gun if nobody if willing to take your lich and you gotta do it old school aka burning another couple hours before trying for a new larvaling/lich

[Nichivo]

I have to at least give you all credit for the obvious attempt at a game play loop, hopefully it will continue to improve, as all the jagged edges are sanded off.

[Oreades]

46 minutes ago, [DE]Bear said:

• TRADE YOUR LICH - If you have a Converted Kuva Lich, you may trade them with another player, who may be looking for a specific Kuva Lich Weapon or Ephemera. This system will be coming soon, including the use of a brand new Dojo Room inspired by the early ‘War Room’ design from the King Pin System!

How about just let people trade the weapons under the same restrictions as Syndicate weapons (EG they are unused/0 Affinity).

Trading Liches while thematically interesting is just trading weapons with extra steps

And is (not can, IS) going to lead to issues where people effectively left with no other option than to "trade on a promise" in an attempt to get a Weapon/Ephemera they want and one or the other side is not going to keep up their end of the deal. That is just extra headache for you at DE, Needless support tickets and ire on the Forums. None of which needs to be given the time or space to exist in the first place.

I get that the work went into the room in question and there is a MIGHTY NEEEEED to use it but please don't over complicate things to create a reason to use an asset. 

[Zeniistar]

17 minutes ago, --Q--DankNinja said:

Is it normal/intended for players to be handed a 2 weeks trade ban for doing 4h30 of kuva survival (fissure)? I dont really understand the concept of punishing players for doing endurance runs when they are not much rewarding in the first place

How can a company call themselves Digital EXTREMES when you farm kuva for 4hrs and get a notification like that lmfao

[notNSANE]

1. Lower murmur requirements, they are ridiculous.

2. Don't allow trading your Lich. Superman didn't trade Lex Luthor for Mr. Freeze.

[Kista-]

Fix or remove Uranus as a start takeover planet. Out of 14 nodes, only 4 are controlled by my lich. The 4 that don't have submercifle in the node name.

[Freeros]

Maybe just system to donate weapon to clan, not the lich? 

In that case ephemeras will remain unique, cause with trading liches ephemeras will be an easy target

[Myscho]

How about removing 5 forma invest for rank 40 ??

I know it works like that with Paracesis, but that is special weapon, not some stronger/weaker derivate of existing weapons, can you change it to like 1 forma can unlock another 10 ranks if weapon have it. Thanks

[ZanderArch]

56 minutes ago, [DE]Bear said:

RECYCLE YOUR REQUIEM - 4 Defiled Requiem Mods can now be Transmuted into a random, fully charged, Requiem Mod. This gives them some additional use, as well as helping you clean up your inventory.

This seems nice, except for the way Requiems are displayed in your inventory and how they show up when selecting rewards from Requiem Fissures. Each individual Requiem mod counts as 1 owned, regardless of charge or if its Defiled or not. Holding on to up to 4 of these means you might be picking the wrong one thinking, "Oh, I have X owned, I can grab the other one!" but if all X of those are defiled, you're screwed.

Recycling Defiled would be great if instead of individual mods owned it was displayed as per charges remaining. 20 Defiled Requiems? "0 Charges owned" shown in the reward screen of a Requiem Fissure. 3 Requiem mods owned that all have 1 charge? "3 Charges owned" Much clearer.

[-Milmo-]

8.3% chance of getting weapon we want in comparison to 7.7% 😍

[IamLoco]

EDIT: I was misinformed

Kuva elemental weapons are all bugged.

[Buff00n]

 

1 hour ago, [DE]Bear said:

• WEAPON RNG REDUCTION - Your Kuva Lich will no longer have the same weapon twice in a row. While you may get a duplicated weapon down the road, you’re Kuva Lich will have a guaranteed different weapon than its immediate predecessor.

This sounds good, but it actually makes little difference in the average number of Liches you have to go through to get all the weapons at least once.

Here's what the distribution looks like before, allowing consecutive repeats:

Here's what it looks like afterwards, not allowing repeats:

The average has gone from 41 down to 38, with the 90th percentile going down from 61 to 56.  This is more of an emotional improvement than a numeric one, but in time you can expect the complaints about repeat rewards to be replaced with complaints about bouncing back and forth between the same two rewards.

[MunsuLight]

This sounds good, but it actually makes little difference in the average number of Liches you have to go through to get all the weapons at least once.

Here's what the distribution looks like before, allowing consecutive repeats:

Here's what it looks like afterwards, not allowing repeats:

The average has gone from 41 down to 38, with the 90th percentile going down from 61 to 56.  This is more of an emotional improvement than a numeric one, but in time you can expect the complaints about repeat rewards to be replaced with complaints about bouncing back and forth between the same two rewards.

From the guy just before me.. Stop with the "FAKE" helping. 

 

Any updates about the Co-op incentives. Pubs are becoming a mess of those who want to kill their lichs and those who dont. Those who dont kill, dont let other lich spawn which is a problem. 

[JotaX_97]

Great changes, especially with reducing the rng on duplicate weapons.

While we're at it, would you think about reducing the kuva weapon name? It's not aesthetically pleasing to see their long name on the arsenal/teammates loadout, where in the mastered profile they appear with a regular "kuva weapon" name.

While I think it's important to keep the name of the kuva lich that originated the weapon linked to it, I suggest adding it to the weapon's description.

[Oreades]

13 minutes ago, Irhyo said:

WTT like 10 disappointments for a vengeful chill ephemera.

 

I'll wait to see how this works, but hopefully they'll only be tradable for other lich contracts.

Is there any way for us to just get rid of our current lich or, at least, get all lich details from the larva? As in if the larva has has a kuva ogris, then the lich will have the kuva ogris as their weapon. Same with ephemeras.

Even if they are only tradeable for other Lich contracts..... do you really think that will stop people for Trading them for other things. 

It's just going to result in a metric ton of "trading on a promise" 

 

"I'll trade you my Riven for your Lich" 

"Well my Riven is worth way more so I'm gonna want the Lich first so I don't get scammed" 

*Gets Lich, instead of going to trading post to commit to the next segment of the exchange....exits game, blocks other player*

 

The whole thing is actively asking for trouble. 

They should IMO stop trying to shoot for flare and just go for what works. Just let people trade the Weapons and Ephemera. Put the weapons under the same restriction as Syndicate weapons EG unused/0 Affinity and Ephemera should again IMHO always have been something you could trade.

 

Edit:

And before anyone says "Just don't trade on a promise", NO how about we don't implement systems that encourage/foster that behavior in the first place.

[OvisCaedo]

Ah, good, no two of the same weapon in a row! That's like only having 12 weapons to pray for one from instead of 13! It feels like you guys are super devoted to doing the barest minimum here to "lower" the RNG time on it, and it also feels very clear that it's just to make this barebones content stretch out for as many gameplay hours as possible because the year has been so dead on content, and is probably nowhere near any other actual releases either.

But at least there'll be a shortcut with the newwww mini-Riven market for kuva weapons! Oh, joy!

[V4Vlad]

Quote

TRADE YOUR LICH - If you have a Converted Kuva Lich, you may trade them with another player, who may be looking for a specific Kuva Lich Weapon or Ephemera. This system will be coming soon, including the use of a brand new Dojo Room inspired by the early ‘War Room’ design from the King Pin System!

Why is it only converted liches? All that effort to put in to trade it with someone just to do it again for the one you traded for? 

[-_-Haron-_-]

23 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

There is a need for an opt-out mechanic / "peace offering" option for players that have a Lich nemesis

Nope. ITs will be abuse for skip useless Weapon and liches without ephemera 

 

24 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

the Lich should only be able to level up if it defeats the player in an actual fight

And after this noone lich will be able to rank up because first rang lich too easy for anyone

25 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

Please remove these items

Kuva - best reward from this relics. I have already more than 100 relics and i dont want from them mods

 

26 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

Having Kuva Weapons require no less than 5 Forma each to get Mastery for them is inconsistent with how other weapons work and forces a lot of grind on players

You can dont grind for them - rank not so useful. But if you want rank - this is best way to get it more than usually

 

28 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

the game should check for existing Kuva weapons in the player's inventory and only equip the Lich with a random weapon that the player does NOT have

Too easy, Warframe game about grind

[AVSManfred]

1 hour ago, [DE]Bear said:

 

• RECYCLE YOUR REQUIEM - 4 Defiled Requiem Mods can now be Transmuted into a random, fully charged, Requiem Mod. This gives them some additional use, as well as helping you clean up your inventory.

Why not just give us option to simply recharge them ? like all of this is to encourage layers to do more kuva siphon missions so let us use this kuva for something useful, like recharging these mods, instead of keep tryign to keep the RNG that kills this system before it can properly lift off

[AuroraSonicBoom]

1 hour ago, [DE]Bear said:

• WEAPON RNG REDUCTION - Your Kuva Lich will no longer have the same weapon twice in a row.

 

I'm sorry, but that's just not good enough. It's a fix that fixes nothing in the grand scheme of things. As you get more weapons your chances of getting one you didn't have yet bottom out real fast. This change seems like it's trying to trick people into thinking their odds are getting significantly better than they really are, quelling immediate frustrations without addressing long term burnout.

At 2 weapons, you have a 7,5%(old: 15%) chance of getting a dupe.

At 6 weapons you have a 41%(old: 46%) chance of getting a dupe.

At 9 weapons you have a 61%(old: 69%) chance of getting a dupe.

At 12 weapons you have a 84%(old: 92%) chance of getting a dupe.

 

Stop putting mastery behind excessive time and grind walls.

[Wiz3rd]

I feel as if the weapon duplicate change does nothing, since you can still rotate on 2 weapons forever.
Give us a way to obtain all of them for mastery, or at least let us narrow it down to the few weapons you're missing.
This really feels like a miniscule step in the right direction, but we could do much better than this.

[GC13]

I hope that part of this discussion on what to do with kuva liches involves moving them towards the originally stated goal of being some long-term nemesis. Right now your lich really doesn't have any business lasting more than a few hours of game time assuming you have your requiem mods. You could have your lich come back to life after a period of time (I'd love to see some kind of Kuva Fleet mission added where you can delay this by attacking the kuva being transported to revive the lich), but a lot was made of the lich randomization so I'm not sure how happy people would be to see that.

[Oreades]

1 hour ago, [DE]Bear said:

• WEAPON RNG REDUCTION - Your Kuva Lich will no longer have the same weapon twice in a row. While you may get a duplicated weapon down the road, your Kuva Lich will have a guaranteed different weapon than its immediate predecessor.

This one is a two fold issue 

1. People who actually want that weapon because they are trying to get it with better stats are going to get screwed every other Lich
2. People who don't want that weapon again are sill only guaranteed one instance of respite before the next weapon is potentially right back to being a duplicate. So now instead of one duplicate weapon you can be locked into a cycle of two duplicates that repeat. It doesn't solve the problem, it barely manages to kick the can.

Initially it looks good on paper but ultimately it seems like a lose-lose

 

Please seriously consider a token system, it like solve all of the issues with the Lich system which is the "This Lich is worthless, you're wasting my time" angle. Because no Lich would be worthless since you get to choose what weapon you get. 

There is still grind because of the RNG nature of the bonus damage so you can still bleed that rock but it's sane grind that isn't soul crushing. Because you never get a Lich that is just "worthless" out of the gate. There is always a value in killing your Lich. 

Even more so if in addition to the Valence system there is a mechanic to extract some value towards hitting max weapon bonus damage even from weapons that have less value than your current bonus value. That way there is consistent progression regardless.