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[DE]Bear

Dev Workshop - Kuva Lich Changes Coming Soon™

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"...a lot of feedback on what you do and don’t like about hunting your personal Lich."

That's the thing that bothers me about this Update. Personal Lich. Let's talk about single player experiences in an online only game with co-op/MMO elements. Was I mistaken to truly believe that a Kuva Lich was going to be some kind single player, PERSONAL challenge? What I've been upset with most, is the amount of time wasted with RNG, likely due to the backstage ideology that "Oh well, Tenno can just farm X item as a group and increase chances of obtaining a chance". Doesn't feel like a personal mission in the least, seeing as I'm forced to trade mods or run relics with people for hours, majority of the time leaving with nothing to show for it except some fluff items ( Amber Star!? ).


I've been complaining about this update too much and took a break until all the bugs are worked out, but I'm not convinced that this project has a goal for the player yet, aside from platinum purchases in order to buy all manner of "time saver" MTX.

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Not Sure, if i wanted to be it the way you guys do, i'd Rather have the read on this Post ( Yes it's mine. )

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1 hour ago, [DE]Bear said:

WEAPON RNG REDUCTION - Your Kuva Lich will no longer have the same weapon twice in a row. While you may get a duplicated weapon down the road, your Kuva Lich will have a guaranteed different weapon than its immediate predecessor.

@[DE]Bear Does DE have any plans to do anything about weapons with worse up-grades like getting a 20% kuva kohm after having a 50% kuva kohm? because i have no reason to go out of my way to get that kohm other then getting the lich out of my way and retry again.

We tenno have lives too and we feel like our time isnt being valued here.

Edited by Zarcxon
forgot a thing or two.
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You give us 6 forma if we logged in and did all 3 forma alerts when the rework went out. 
Now, every melee had gotten changed meaning people had to redo builds so that might take all 6 forma if not more

then you add in Kuva Weapons that have the same mechanic as the paracesis. To get max mastery xp with them we gotta invest 5 forma and you added a total of 13 new Kuva weapons so that is 65 forma. Assuming that we can log on every day and start crafting a Forma (which I and many others probably cant) that would take over 2 months of logging in, crafting a Forma, or in my case getting a BP first, and then staying or logging out. 

Something needs to change about this because unless we get plat and use it on a crap ton of Forma bundles it will take too long. Please either do something about the 5 forma mechanic, (more preferably) let us craft more than 1 of the same item at a time, or just come up with something new for this but at the current level it is just to long of a time to pretty much craft all the forma. I personally also need forma for other things like clan weapons or finishing builds but I would have to choose one or the other because of this mechanic.

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Question-

As of right now, you get the ephemera when you either kill or convert a lich.  If you convert a lich, then trade it at the dojo, that means two people can get the ephemera?  Or are we not going to be able to get the ephemera if we do a conversion going forward?

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Said this from day one of Liches, and even years before that.

My one and only desire is a Miter variant, and Kuva weapons seem like the perfect answer to that.

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Good to hear!

Regarding the Kuva weapons with AoE effects (Ogris, Tonkor, Chakkhurr, Ayanga and I think Seer), is the AoE damage component having the damage converted instead of added intended?

For example, my Ogris has a 26% Toxin damage bonus, which should give it 427 Blast + 111 Toxin on the AoE.

However, currently in-game, the Blast damage drops from 427 to 338.5, and the Toxin is listed at 95.5 (7 of which is from 26% toxin added to the 27 impact/puncture of the rocket impact), 88.5 of which is the AoE. 338.5 + 88.5 = 427, equal to the base Blast damage. This is inconsistent with the rest of the non-AoE damage stats on the other Kuva Weapons, which have the bonus stat added to their base damage.

I have a feeling this is why the Kuva Ogris is only slightly stronger than its base variant, as a lot of the missing AoE damage (600 on the Ogris (100 of the listed Blast is on the rocket impact) vs 427 Blast (all AoE) on the Kuva Ogris) could be covered by the elemental bonus.

Reference image of my Ogris stats:

Spoiler

gP5gAnt.png

 

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I'm glad. I didn't realize 59% fire damage was a high roll on my first lich, so I converted it. Now I can get use out of it.

 

You guys need to figure out a way to make grinding out a low roll lich worth something. If you already own the weapon and you defeat a lich with a copy that has a lower roll, what are you going to do with the weapon? Sell it fro credits? I like the idea of using the low roll copies to buff up the roll on a good copy. Give us a way to make use out of those roll roll extra copies.

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1 hour ago, [DE]Bear said:

Greeting, Lich Hunters!

After the release of the Kuva Lich System in Update 26: The Old Blood, you have been providing us a lot of feedback on what you do and don’t like about hunting your personal Lich. While we have made many improvements over the past week, we have more to come. We are adding the following very soon, based on your feedback:

  • WEAPON RNG REDUCTION - Your Kuva Lich will no longer have the same weapon twice in a row. While you may get a duplicated weapon down the road, your Kuva Lich will have a guaranteed different weapon than its immediate predecessor.
  • RECYCLE YOUR REQUIEM - 4 Defiled Requiem Mods can now be Transmuted into a random, fully charged, Requiem Mod. This gives them some additional use, as well as helping you clean up your inventory.
  • TRADE YOUR LICH - If you have a Converted Kuva Lich, you may trade them with another player, who may be looking for a specific Kuva Lich Weapon or Ephemera. This system will be coming soon, including the use of a brand new Dojo Room inspired by the early ‘War Room’ design from the King Pin System!
  • MORE TO COME - We are looking at other ways in which we can make the Kuva Lich system more rewarding and unique, although there is still a lot of internal discussion surrounding the ‘hows’ while maintaining the design intent. More on this as it is finalized.

Monitoring, tweaking and balancing this new process is an ongoing effort, and we rely on your feedback to let us know what you think. Please keep your feedback constructive and succinct, making sure you give suggestions to systems you do not like, while detailing why you do like a system, should that be your opinion.

The hunt continues!
 

So the question is do i mess around with farming the 4th Lich duplicate weapon or should i wait... how soon are you going to implement these changes? if its in the upcoming days then i will wait if its weeks then i will grind away and roll the dice... 

 

Either way [DE] thanks for listening to our feedback.

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15 minutes ago, Prof_Blocks_007 said:

Good to hear!

Regarding the Kuva weapons with AoE effects (Ogris, Tonkor, Chakkhurr, Ayanga and I think Seer), is the AoE damage component having the damage converted instead of added intended?

For example, my Ogris has a 26% Toxin damage bonus, which should give it 427 Blast + 111 Toxin on the AoE.

However, currently in-game, the Blast damage drops from 427 to 338.5, and the Toxin is listed at 95.5 (7 of which is from 26% toxin added to the 27 impact/puncture of the rocket impact), 88.5 of which is the AoE. 338.5 + 88.5 = 427, equal to the base Blast damage. This is inconsistent with the rest of the non-AoE damage stats on the other Kuva Weapons, which have the bonus stat added to their base damage.

I have a feeling this is why the Kuva Ogris is only slightly stronger than its base variant, as a lot of the missing AoE damage (600 on the Ogris (100 of the listed Blast is on the rocket impact) vs 427 Blast (all AoE) on the Kuva Ogris) could be covered by the elemental bonus.

Reference image of my Ogris stats:

  Hide contents

gP5gAnt.png

 

Wow, that doesn't seem right at all. So the weapons that have no AOE damage have the elemental roll added and the aoe ones have it converted? That's...that doesn't seem right.

Edited by Flying_Scorpion
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ill just trade for the last 3 kuva weapons I need then since duplicates aren't getting changed. 

Edited by Staypul

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The Weapon change fixes nothing. For me, every other weapon has been a Brakk.

Better idea: flag a player for duplicate weapons after they have received at least one of each unique weapon.

Edited by veryhighcholesterol
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I dissolved 22 defiled requiem mods... :facepalm:

Can't wait for trading though, I just hope it's lich for lich only to dissuade people from using plat, and it better not be locked to clan members only. I'm not about to give up two and half years of work making my dojo exactly how I want it and soloing up to a rank 9 clan just for 3 weapons.

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Cita

WEAPON RNG REDUCTION - Your Kuva Lich will no longer have the same weapon twice in a row. While you may get a duplicated weapon down the road, your Kuva Lich will have a guaranteed different weapon than its immediate predecessor.

I can already see myself getting: Kohm - Ayanga - Kohm - Ayanga - Kohm - Ayanga - Kohm 🙄

 

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2 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

Greeting, Lich Hunters!

After the release of the Kuva Lich System in Update 26: The Old Blood, you have been providing us a lot of feedback on what you do and don’t like about hunting your personal Lich. While we have made many improvements over the past week, we have more to come. We are adding the following very soon, based on your feedback:

  • WEAPON RNG REDUCTION - Your Kuva Lich will no longer have the same weapon twice in a row. While you may get a duplicated weapon down the road, your Kuva Lich will have a guaranteed different weapon than its immediate predecessor.
  • RECYCLE YOUR REQUIEM - 4 Defiled Requiem Mods can now be Transmuted into a random, fully charged, Requiem Mod. This gives them some additional use, as well as helping you clean up your inventory.
  • TRADE YOUR LICH - If you have a Converted Kuva Lich, you may trade them with another player, who may be looking for a specific Kuva Lich Weapon or Ephemera. This system will be coming soon, including the use of a brand new Dojo Room inspired by the early ‘War Room’ design from the King Pin System!
  • MORE TO COME - We are looking at other ways in which we can make the Kuva Lich system more rewarding and unique, although there is still a lot of internal discussion surrounding the ‘hows’ while maintaining the design intent. More on this as it is finalized.

Monitoring, tweaking and balancing this new process is an ongoing effort, and we rely on your feedback to let us know what you think. Please keep your feedback constructive and succinct, making sure you give suggestions to systems you do not like, while detailing why you do like a system, should that be your opinion.

The hunt continues!
 

Does this mean you would be having your converted lich turn into a hostile lich against your ally that traded for them?

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I really dislike the idea of a system where I'll have to interact with another player to get rid of a Lich I don't want. I should have a solo and deterministic way to dump it, preferably sooner to acquisition rather than later towards vanquish/conversion.

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Why would anyone play this update further knowing that those changes are coming?

Makes more sense to wait 8 months for you to figure out what you want to do before investing time and then having your time wasted as the system becomes easier and accessible.

But that's of you ever care about getting another variation of an existing weapon to fight the nonexistent challenges this game provides.

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1 minute ago, Mulchman said:

I really dislike the idea of a system where I'll have to interact with another player to get rid of a Lich I don't want. I should have a solo and deterministic way to dump it, preferably sooner to acquisition rather than later towards vanquish/conversion.

Indeed. It'd be as easy as giving the larva an indication as to what weapon itll use, so you can choose to not kill it.

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Il y a 2 heures, [DE]Bear a dit :

Lich will have a guaranteed different weapon than its immediate predecessor

Good ^ ^

Il y a 2 heures, [DE]Bear a dit :

RECYCLE YOUR REQUIEM - 4 Defiled Requiem Mods can now be Transmuted into a random, fully charged, Requiem Mod

Good ^ ^
 

Il y a 2 heures, [DE]Bear a dit :

If you have a Converted Kuva Lich, you may trade them with another player, who may be looking for a specific Kuva Lich Weapon or Ephemera.

What ? '-'
You mean, once we have converted a lich, we can offer it to a player, and this lich will be a problem for this player until he kills it for the weapon ? This sound weird..
The simple possibility of abandonning our lich, to our clan mates, already sound good enough, why add this complication ?
Or.. oh, maybe you mean exchange a lich for another ? hm.. If it's this, good '-'
 

Il y a 2 heures, [DE]Bear a dit :

MORE TO COME - We are looking at other ways in which we can make the Kuva Lich system more rewarding and unique, although there is still a lot of internal discussion surrounding the ‘hows’ while maintaining the design intent. More on this as it is finalized.

Hm..
I already made several feedbacks about that, I really think you broke the original, and perfect idea.
I really hope you will fix it with the "undying" part, teased during prime time.. But I have low hope because I heard "lich downed 3 times, but without attacking it with the parazon" <.<
The Kuva lich fight really needs to abandon completely this absurd insta kill on bad guess of the requiem.
This enemy represents a serious threat, an epic fight, a real immersive duel.
A bet has no place in it.

I have absolutely no problem with the lich being able to kill us easily during the fight if it manages to do it properly.
But this, belongs to the absurd domain, not even the "unfair" domain which some players could whine about, just, objectively, absurd domain.
Frankly, I still don't understand how this idea is considered to be "good" in the mind of the game designer responsable of it.
While I'm sure the responsable is quite capable of perfect job the rest of the time. I seriously love you DE team, and this is why I insist so much on this particular thing.

The lich can kill us with a finisher if it grabs us ? Good
On a bet ? Not good at all '-' Simple

So I will repeat it again, imagine this :
The lich has a 3 part life bar.
- We empty the first.
- We attempt the mercy.
- First mod correct.
- We empty the second part.
- We attempt the mercy.
- Second mod, wrong °-°
- The lich throws us away.
- We are still alive. Maybe a little script for his AI, more attempt of grabbing us here.
- We empty the third.
- We attempt the mercy.
- First mod correct, second wrong, third ? Don't know. Because to know that, we need to succeed on the second. Understood ? '-'
But in the end, the lich is dead on the floor, killed the wrong way.
So the Kuva reacts, like it did when the lich was still a Larvling..

That way, we have the important, "immortal" aspect of the idea.
We have the kuva, that uses death, for reinforcement.
Creepy °-°
And all the dialogues of the liches make sense again.
"Killed me. Over and over! And still I grew stronger!"

Edited by Azvalk
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WEAPON RNG REDUCTION - Your Kuva Lich will no longer have the same weapon twice in a row. While you may get a duplicated weapon down the road, your Kuva Lich will have a guaranteed different weapon than its immediate predecessor.

That some courage calling this change "weapon rng reduction", let me tall ya xD

Im no math scholar, but im sure this "change" would only ever be meaningful if we had 2 weapons, i mean, i guess this changes things, it changes the order you get the duplicates lol.

Anyways, i see where this system is going, no real intention of ever easing up on the grind, plenty of intention in making this just another riven market.

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Can we get changes in the matchmaking for Kuva Lich missions:

  • a cap based on the timer to survival mission, they only last 5 minutes so if we enter one when there is like 2 or 1:30 min left it feel like a waste
  • a cap of 1 conduit for disruption missions there is only 4 conduits.
  • a cap based on % completed for Interception, sometimes we enter the mission and is already at 75% so we stay like 1 min or less
  • a cap based on % of kills for a exterminate, sometimes we enter the mission and they already killed 175/188 enemies

 

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So for the trade systems does this mean you can stockpile kuva liches by going on a mass conversions spree for this system? Or is it just one at a time? Im hoping multiple liches can be collected so unwanted weapon rolls could have some use in the system.

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Any news on making them more co-op friendly?

Also, making them tradeable kinda defeats the purpose of a "personal villain". It just becomes another game of trading instead of playing. It also makes people feel like they need to trade, if they're not making good progress on it themselves. I feel like this is just a bandaid to the RNG of weapons, like why bother with the painful grind when you can just buy a Lich off someone else? And that is exactly how it's going to feel.

Edited by AdunSaveMe
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2 hours ago, Tromeo said:

taking a break 'till the rng reduction implemented... because am at my 3rd Drakgoon in a row 🤮

I also have my first three weapons as drakgoon.....then the fourth one is finally different....but then I kind of like....what’s the point....

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54 minutes ago, Oreades said:

This one is a two fold issue 

  1. People who actually want that weapon because they are trying to get it with better stats are going to get screwed every other Lich
  2. People who don't want that weapon again are sill only guaranteed one instance of respite before the next weapon is potentially right back to being a duplicate. So now instead of one duplicate weapon you can be locked into a cycle of two duplicates that repeat. It doesn't solve the problem, it barely manages to kick the can.

To be fair there is an 'easier' way to solve the issue with wanting better stats.... just have a fixed stat instead of rng stats.  Keep the 'rng' on the element and leave it at that. 

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