I enjoy the Kuva Lich system and Update 26, but the core issue with Lich progression is as-yet unaddressed

[terribleperson]

I want to open by saying that I really do like the Kuva Lich system. I like how powerful the Kuva Liches feel. I enjoy their varied personalities. I like the new guns and their elemental bonuses. I'm really enjoying having a reason to fight high-level enemies outside of a sortie. I've made new Warframe buddies. I've got complaints, there are things I'd like to see tweaked, but updates are coming at a pretty good pace so far and I think most of the smaller problems are going to be solved soon. However, a LOT of the complaints I've seen and made myself about the Kuva Lich system are all the same problem: You spend a lot of time grinding knowing that you will receive literally no reward and with no promise of a future reward. None of the possible changes DE has mentioned so far fix this.

A Lich is a roughly three hour grind. I don't think that's unreasonable; I can complete a few liches a week with friends and clan members without having to grind excessively. The problem is the lack of reward. You should never have to play three hours of Warframe for literally no reward, but to participated in the Lich system you will find yourself having to do that more often than not. The reward for completing the three-hour grind and vanquishing a Lich is a Kuva Weapon. If you already have that weapon with the same or a higher bonus, that reward is literally worth nothing to you. If you already have that weapon with a slightly lower bonus, that reward is worth very little to you. If it's new to you but you don't care about that weapon, that reward might technically have value, but it doesn't FEEL like it's worth anything, and that's all that matters in a game. The best-case scenario for this system initially is a player aiming for Mastery points, but once they get half of the weapons half of their liches will be wasted time to them.

I have more than half of the Kuva weapons now. I particularly want a Drakgoon, but I'd also be excited for a Chakkhurr or a good Ogris. It feels REALLY, REALLY bad to look at a fresh Lich, know that I will get literally no reward (a lower version of a weapon I already have) or no meaningful reward (an upgrade to a weapon I have zero intention to ever use) for three hours of focused grind, and know that at the end of that grind I will go get a new Lich who will more more likely than not ALSO reward nothing. I am grinding for a chance at the ability to grind for a reward.

Today a Dev Workshop for Kuva Lich changes was posted and none of the announced potential changes address this core problem of grinding for no reward. It does address my desire for MORE DOJO ROOMS, but that's not important right now. The removal of sequential duplicate Lich rewards is a very minor, only mattering for 1/13 new Liches. Lich trading could be a partial solution, but requiring that you complete the three hour grind and convert your Lich makes it only really a solution in the edge case that your Lich has a desirable weapon that you don't want for some reason or another. That 28% Kuva Seer you don't want? That's still no reward at all. If Kuva Liches were tradeable immediately after their resurrection, you could trade an undesirable Lich and platinum or a valuable item to someone else for a better Lich. Both of you still have to complete a Lich, but you get a Lich reward you actually want and the other player gets their reward in the form of your payment. This shouldn't be the only way the issue is addressed, but it would help, whereas the Lich trading system as currently proposed does not address the issue at all.

There are numerous ways the lack of a reward could be addressed, but there are two changes I would particularly like to see. One: Kuva weapons should be exchangeable for useful rewards that are appropriate as the final reward for there hours of focused play. Personally I'd suggest the ability to break them down for 10,000 Kuva, since they are Kuva-based and that much Kuva can be easily obtained in three hours without focused play. Two: I'd like the ability to progress my Lich with friends while doing more rewarding star chart content, such as Siphons, Floods, Nightmare missions, and Fissures. These two changes would make the Lich grind more rewarding overall.

I really dig Kuva liches, and I want to enjoy farming them with my clan and pubs and my new Warframe buddies, but the current process of grinding Lich after Lich for literally no reward is awful. I hope that the new fixes include measures to combat this.

[Teridax68]

I feel the dev workshop was actually pretty revealing of DE's design intent: it's not just that DE has failed to acknowledge the frustration of getting duplicates; DE actually wants us to get duplicates, so that we then get pushed to trade our Liches, and possibly exchange Plat along the way. There would be no point in implementing Lich trading if DE truly intended for us to avoid getting duplicates, especially since they're conspicuously promising to prevent duplicate weapons from spawning... but only on the immediate next Lich. The changes we've received so far to alleviate the lack of rewards have been little more than lip service, as DE clearly does have the means to avoid us getting duplicates, but refuses to implement them. Similarly, the system of elemental bonus damage in random amounts tacked onto those Kuva weapons is also designed to cheapen the weapons we obtain by suggesting the existence of a more powerful duplicate, even though the dupes we get may very well be inferior to what we have now. Thus, Kuva Liches as they currently exist are designed to make us grind for hours for potentially no reward, simply so that we can attempt to make up the difference with Plat, or try again and boost the game's player statistics a little further, even if it comes at the cost of our enjoyment, and eventual burnout.