Kuva Liches with Hallowed Ground Need To Be Switched With Another Power.

[Occonami]

Just finished a game where a player spawned a poison lich on a defense mission and refused to kill it. Constant radiation procs caused a lot of players to down each other; the assumed offending player proceeded to not play the mission with Revenant utilizing mesmer skin as a method to cause players to un-intentionally down themselves. 

A system where a player can abuse the fact other players cannot remove an immortal lich that isn't theirs and subsequently cause intentional mission failure needs to be examined DE

Thanks.

[krc473]

3 minutes ago, Occonami said:

A system where a player can abuse the fact other players cannot remove an immortal lich that isn't theirs and subsequently cause intentional mission failure needs to be examined DE

So, because people do silly things, a perfectly fine enemy ability is the problem?

 

DE needs to:

• Incentivise killing Liches. Or,
• Punish ignoring them.

It is far better to fix the actual problem, as that will fix many other issues. 

[Test-995]

Rad procs should be removed.

Thanks.

[Oreades]

If I ever log in again and bother to kill my Lich..... I am soooo getting a radiation Lich cause this sounds HILARIOUS

 

35 minutes ago, krc473 said:

DE needs to:

• Incentivise killing Liches. Or,
• Punish ignoring them.

It is far better to fix the actual problem, as that will fix many other issues. 

I'd also append a way to dispel** Liches without doing either as an alternative. Tho "Incentivise killing Liches" speaks volumes on it's own.  

**EG down them three times without triggering a Mercy (seriously tho why is it called mercy outside of maybe a The Walking Dead reference? cause that doesn't make sense to me. Maybe to the Infested but not for the Grineer or Corpus) effect and they just take the hint and go away. 

Edited November 13, 2019 by Oreades

[krc473]

1 hour ago, Oreades said:

I'd also append a way to dispel** Liches without doing either as an alternative. Tho "Incentivise killing Liches" speaks volumes on it's own.  

I am okay with anything that gets rid of them when the 'owner' doesn't want to kill them.

[RobWasHere]

It's not the power itself (it's Smite does that too), it's the rad proc that you can't really avoid unless using certain frames or having Wyrm for status proc prevention. When for the third time Lich rad procced me in defence and my Wukong clone instakilled the cryopod that was the last time I will ever spawn Toxin Lich.
The unavoidable rad proc from Smite and Cursed Ground need to go or be applied less often.

[Hobie-wan]

2 hours ago, Oreades said:

**EG down them three times without triggering a Mercy (seriously tho why is it called mercy outside of maybe a The Walking Dead reference? cause that doesn't make sense to me.

Step outside, learn about the world. There are things outside of TV, movies, and video games ya know.

[Oreades]

1 minute ago, Hobie-wan said:

Step outside, learn about the world. There are things outside of TV, movies, and video games ya know.

And as I covered with the segment you left out 

I hate having to quote myself.....

2 hours ago, Oreades said:

Maybe to the Infested but not for the Grineer or Corpus

Neither the Grineer nor the Corpus (with possibly the exception of the Demolists) want to die so you aren't imparting "Mercy". You are just outright killing them. In fact associating "Mercy" with the act of outright murder (tho they frequently did try to kill us first) is kinda concerning, like dealing with hardcore zealots concerning. 

"Mercy" really doesn't make sense for anything but the Infested and even then only maybe. Because you can't be sure that they actually "want to die" and there is the prospect that they could very well have some level of consciousness for which "Mercy" would nolonger apply. 

And then there is the fact that Steve dressed up as Negan from The Walking Dead this year for Halloween.... 

[Hobie-wan]

24 minutes ago, Oreades said:

And as I covered with the segment you left out 

I hate having to quote myself.....

Neither the Grineer nor the Corpus (with possibly the exception of the Demolists) want to die so you aren't imparting "Mercy". You are just outright killing them. In fact associating "Mercy" with the act of outright murder (tho they frequently did try to kill us first) is kinda concerning, like dealing with hardcore zealots concerning. 

"Mercy" really doesn't make sense for anything but the Infested and even then only maybe. Because you can't be sure that they actually "want to die" and there is the prospect that they could very well have some level of consciousness for which "Mercy" would nolonger apply. 

And then there is the fact that Steve dressed up as Negan from The Walking Dead this year for Halloween.... 

It's a mercy killing because they've already been taken to the edge of death. Instead of letting them sit there suffering and barely holding on with a sliver of life left, you put them out of their misery. It has nothing to do with their previous state of existence or any beating they just received. At the point it pops up and offers a mercy, it is just a proper use of the term in the game at that moment and makes perfect sense.

[Chaincat]

if you have a lich that can proc radiation, kill your lich before I kill you multiple times uwu

[Drachnyn]

I still dont understand why the toxin lich has 2 radiation abilities when an actual radiation lich exists.

[ES-Flinter]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb krc473:

Punish ignoring them.

Just imagine. The lich becomes after 1min berserk and starts hunting the player until he got him. Let's see how long the player can survive, if DE gives the lich growing running and damage increase. 🤣😂🤣

Edited November 13, 2019 by ES-Flinter

[Kefirno]

9 hours ago, Oreades said:

I'd also append a way to dispel** Liches without doing either as an alternative. Tho "Incentivise killing Liches" speaks volumes on it's own.  

**EG down them three times without triggering a Mercy effect and they just take the hint and go away. 

Lich goes away if you get downed by it.

9 hours ago, krc473 said:

Punish ignoring them.

Why would you as for more grind? Ignoring liches is more efficient than constantly resetting their spawn chance and increasing eniemies' levels.

Edited November 13, 2019 by Kefirno

[ciTiger]

10 hours ago, krc473 said:

So, because people do silly things, a perfectly fine enemy ability is the problem?

 

DE needs to:

• Incentivise killing Liches. Or,
• Punish ignoring them.

It is far better to fix the actual problem, as that will fix many other issues. 

1000 votes up

[EinheriarJudith]

10 hours ago, Occonami said:

Just finished a game where a player spawned a poison lich on a defense mission and refused to kill it. Constant radiation procs caused a lot of players to down each other; the assumed offending player proceeded to not play the mission with Revenant utilizing mesmer skin as a method to cause players to un-intentionally down themselves. 

A system where a player can abuse the fact other players cannot remove an immortal lich that isn't theirs and subsequently cause intentional mission failure needs to be examined DE

Thanks.

the problem with this is on the player. if im running a toxin lich ill use oberon, hildy, or nezha with safeguard. its common sense. people just dont care.

[Steel_Rook]

Three things need to happen. First, we need to be able to execute Liches correctly even if we don't have the right mods for them. This wouldn't kill them in the storyline, but would get them off the map and give us some additional information - attempts and Murmur progress. Second, Liches put in a Downed state need to eventually bleed out and disappear from the map. If players don't want to kill their Liches. Liches should not linger like they can now. Lastly, Lich "anger" needs to reset and their level increase every time they show up regardless of how they're dispatched, whether through Parazon or bleedout. You don't need to disincentivise not killing Liches so much as you need to attach the same consequences to it as already exist for trying to kill them.

[Oreades]

7 hours ago, Hobie-wan said:

It's a mercy killing because they've already been taken to the edge of death. Instead of letting them sit there suffering and barely holding on with a sliver of life left, you put them out of their misery. It has nothing to do with their previous state of existence or any beating they just received. At the point it pops up and offers a mercy, it is just a proper use of the term in the game at that moment and makes perfect sense.

Again that is not mercy, that is finishing what you started. 

Trying to ascribe that action as an "act of mercy" is something I would expect to see from a villain or at the very least a complete psychopath. 

Edited November 13, 2019 by Oreades

[Oreades]

1 hour ago, Kefirno said:

Lich goes away if you get downed by it.

The problem there is that much like the mechanic where if you don't know the correct Requiem combo causing you to just ya know die...

Is that both of them either cause or require the player to die/down for reasons outside of their control that otherwise WOULD NOT cause them to die/down. 

Both are terrible from a design perspective because they remove a players agency "Whelp my Lich is here guess its time to just die/down" and an even more concerning aspect is that maybe just maybe somewhere someone making the decisions that lead to this scenario is actually conflating "players getting downed" with "adding challenge to the game" and that by proxy of creating a system where players have no functional choice but to allow themselves to be downed that they have therefore "added challenge to the game" which can't be further from the truth.