We Urgently Need to Talk About Kuva Ogriss

[Orakan]

I like all of the kuva weapons accept the Kuva Ogriss. It has nearly half of the damage of the original one , like it is a crit variant version but only has 9 percent crit chance and higher status chance which is basicly useless launcher type explosive weapons. 
I mean launchers are already not a good place in this game for years because they are not rewarding the self damage/suicide mechanic cause they are not doing decent damage after level 80+ especially if you are playing against armored enemies. Tigris prime can do way more damage than both version of the Ogriss which is ridicilious cause a shotgun shound't do more damage than rocket launcher .

Solution for the Kuva Ogriss is the same thing solution that have been used on Opticor Vandal . It need at least 25-30 percent crit chance and 2.5 crit damage multiplier cause it already have faster atack rate cause of the semi auto trigger system and this turn this weapon to a more usable weapon for gerular missions other than defense/excavation mission or open words and most importantly it will reward the risk of self harm or killing yourself mechanic . 

PS: Rocket launcher should kill the open world drop ships way better than snipers too so maybe adding an extra none visiable damage against those drop ships on orb vallis and plains of eidolon might be cool too

Edited November 14, 2019 by Orakan

[Melanholic7]

Obviously 450 dmg is much greater damage than casul 700 damage. Ty DE for math lesson

Edited November 13, 2019 by Melanholic7

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

8 minutes ago, Melanholic7 said:

This seems to be a UI issue. 

The Kuva Ogris has 454 on impact and a further 600 from the explosion
Regular Ogris has 100 on impact and a further 600 from the explosion. 

The "dealing greater damage" isn't wrong - it's just stupidly applied to the wrong aspect of rockets that needed buffing - impact and not explosion.  You'll get only 1 enemy with the new damage values, only on direct hit, and then everything else is same old, same old in the blast radius.    

The UI is still wrong though.  The damage value on the Kuva Ogris should be 1054.  For whatever reason it's not showing the 600 from the explosion, unlike the regular variant which adds it in.  Almost certainly you still get the values in normal play.  It wouldn't be the first time a UI bug like this appeared.  

Edited November 13, 2019 by (PS4)Zuzu_with_a_Z

[SpicyDinosaur]

Firestorm allows you to hit multiple enemies, and nightwatch napalm is a nice addition.

 

I like it, but why not use the regular ogris if you prefer dying every 5 minutes? The kuva Ogris just gives you a different option. I even put cautious shot in the exilus slot, though I don't feel I super needed it.

[Orakan]

Trust me even with cautious shot you can still kill yourself very easly even with tanky frame if you have decent riven. Not rewarding the risk of self harm is a general issue for all explosive  launchers like I have said earlier you can do way more damage with tigris prime, but the real problem is about Kuva Ogriss is devs treated that weapon like a crit weapon but actually it is no where near being a crit weapon.

[ES-Flinter]

The Kuva Ogris doens't need a highr crit. chance. Explosive status need to shred the base armor of enemies by a percent of the explosion damage. And if DE is really nice the armor reduction will come before the damage. Even if the base armor reduction will be just 5% of the explosion damage, it would be enough to save every explosive weapon.

[Orakan]

Status chance is working when you can proc multiple status effects of the same type for armor which is corrosive in our case. And procing corrosive once is not effecting the armor that much let alone shreding the it. Maybe if the launchers or Kuva Ogriss have innate multishot your theory might be come to life but not for the actuall game. It is working on weapons like kulstar or ansturm cause pistols have much more multishot and both of those weapons are sending many projectiles in one shot . Because of that status is basicly not good for for weapons like ogriss or penta and for that reason they need more direct damage.

Besides logic wise a rocket launcher should be way more effecting at killing and should reward more with much higher damage cause of risking harming or even killing yourself.

 

[Dr.Membrane]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb (PS4)Zuzu_with_a_Z:

This seems to be a UI issue. 

The Kuva Ogris has 454 on impact and a further 600 from the explosion
Regular Ogris has 100 on impact and a further 600 from the explosion. 

The "dealing greater damage" isn't wrong - it's just stupidly applied to the wrong aspect of rockets that needed buffing - impact and not explosion.  You'll get only 1 enemy with the new damage values, only on direct hit, and then everything else is same old, same old in the blast radius.    

The UI is still wrong though.  The damage value on the Kuva Ogris should be 1054.  For whatever reason it's not showing the 600 from the explosion, unlike the regular variant which adds it in.  Almost certainly you still get the values in normal play.  It wouldn't be the first time a UI bug like this appeared.  

 

No im sorry but this is sadly not the case, i whish it would but it realy isnt:(.
I tested the kuva ogris in every possible way and even put 5 formas on it because i had faith in it. You must know i using the Vanilla Ogris since 2015 and using it on a daily basis (200k kills by now) i mean i can feel this gun, so i was very happy about the upcoming kuva version. But the truth is that the kuva ogris is just 33% weaker than the Vanilla version, its not a vissual ui bug, there is no hidden 600+ damage and EVEN the element bonus is not additiv calculated...it is subtractive..let this sink. Which means the element bonus is getting withdrawn from the overall base damage and than gets addet separately.

In my test i was using the same build on both launchers with a god riven (Radioactiv, Blast and Cold) vs 8 Lv.100 corrupted bombards. In numbers: Kuva Ogris 42.399 vs Vanilla Ogris 79.174, it needet 4 shots with Vanilla and 6 with Kuva to kill all 8 enemys without direct boddy hits. So this confirms that you have to shoot 33% more times because it has simply 33% less damage.

Which makes the statement of the Kuva Ogris description"..greater damage per shot" not true. =/ 

I hope this damage numbers are just a realy silly bug and not intended.
 

 

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

30 minutes ago, Dr.Membrane said:

 

No im sorry but this is sadly not the case, i whish it would but it realy isnt:(.
I tested the kuva ogris in every possible way and even put 5 formas on it because i had faith in it. You must know i using the Vanilla Ogris since 2015 and using it on a daily basis (200k kills by now) i mean i can feel this gun, so i was very happy about the upcoming kuva version. But the truth is that the kuva ogris is just 33% weaker than the Vanilla version, its not a vissual ui bug, there is no hidden 600+ damage and EVEN the element bonus is not additiv calculated...it is subtractive..let this sink. Which means the element bonus is getting withdrawn from the overall base damage and than gets addet separately.

In my test i was using the same build on both launchers with a god riven (Radioactiv, Blast and Cold) vs 8 Lv.100 corrupted bombards. In numbers: Kuva Ogris 42.399 vs Vanilla Ogris 79.174, it needet 4 shots with Vanilla and 6 with Kuva to kill all 8 enemys without direct boddy hits. So this confirms that you have to shoot 33% more times because it has simply 33% less damage.

Which makes the statement of the Kuva Ogris description"..greater damage per shot" not true. =/ 

I hope this damage numbers are just a realy silly bug and not intended.
 

 

Well according to the wiki the damage values I put should be true.  Either the damage from the explosion is not happening at all, or its a UI bug - either way something is bugged.   It is supposed to have 1054 damage.  If it doesn't it's either UI - or the explosion is broken.   The gun wasn't designed to be worse - something is not right here.   The damage also isn't supposed to be hidden - like the regular Ogris it's supposed to have both values combined.  Because if regular Ogris showed only the state Kuva Ogris is showing, the UI would only read 100.  Explosion damage is not hidden - the fact it's not there proves this is a bug.  

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Kuva_Ogris

Edited November 13, 2019 by (PS4)Zuzu_with_a_Z

[Orakan]

 

31 minutes ago, Dr.Membrane said:

 

No im sorry but this is sadly not the case, i whish it would but it realy isnt:(.
I tested the kuva ogris in every possible way and even put 5 formas on it because i had faith in it. You must know i using the Vanilla Ogris since 2015 and using it on a daily basis (200k kills by now) i mean i can feel this gun, so i was very happy about the upcoming kuva version. But the truth is that the kuva ogris is just 33% weaker than the Vanilla version, its not a vissual ui bug, there is no hidden 600+ damage and EVEN the element bonus is not additiv calculated...it is subtractive..let this sink. Which means the element bonus is getting withdrawn from the overall base damage and than gets addet separately.

In my test i was using the same build on both launchers with a god riven (Radioactiv, Blast and Cold) vs 8 Lv.100 corrupted bombards. In numbers: Kuva Ogris 42.399 vs Vanilla Ogris 79.174, it needet 4 shots with Vanilla and 6 with Kuva to kill all 8 enemys without direct boddy hits. So this confirms that you have to shoot 33% more times because it has simply 33% less damage.

Which makes the statement of the Kuva Ogris description"..greater damage per shot" not true. =/ 

I hope this damage numbers are just a realy silly bug and not intended.
 

 

Tottally agreed on  your explation . Solution is simple like I have said before , for kuva ogriss , opticor vandal should take as an example , if devs put 25-30 crit chance and 2.5 crit multiplier that base damage and elemenat damage make Kuva varient is a prety fun to use weapon cause of semi auto trigger (like opticor vandal has higher fire and charge rate ) and than maybe this beautiful weapon might worth to risk your warframe's life cause of self damage mechanic. 

[Robolaser]

Both Ogris works well against all factions, including grineer, when modded right. I have no issue using them at level 100+

And for the kuva version that's without the elemental bonus, which is bugged. It has been reported, and acknowledged by a staff member:

Le 08/11/2019 à 17:26, [DE]Momaw a dit :

It appears that kuva lich weapons are not applying their elemental bonus to the splash damage component of the shot, if it has one. A developer will look into why this doesn't work. Sorry for the disappointing explosions in the mean time.

Once it's fixed, and considering that you can replace 1 status mod with whatever you want thanks to the higher SC, i think a modded kuva version might indeed be able to do "greater damage per shot" than the regular one (no riven of course), as the description says.

Perhaps it should be guaranteed though, and not require an above average elemental bonus, so i wouldn't mind a slight base damage increase.

But i don't want more crit. It would just make the damage output too unreliable imo.

Edited November 13, 2019 by Robolaser

[Orakan]

I just explained how status works on the upper section please look at that reply , even if you have hundred percent corrosive proc you can't manage to remove the armor cause its not scaling from the damage, you need to put it multile times . What is the point of  using a ROCKET LAUNCHER while spaming many rockets when I can one shot many targets with arca plasmor or tigris prime .

Besides bonus damage is only scaling from base damage which max 60 percent is just too little for laucher type weapons like ogriss or penta , its like adding one more status/elemental mod. Even if the bug fixed it won't solve the problem . 

That put us the begining ; damage is not enough for taking a  risk of   damaging yourself , not rewarding the player for choosing this weapon. Only solution for the problem is more direct damage and best way to do this is bringing more crit 

[DarthIronclad]

Pretty much every kuva weapon has decent crit stats except for this...and status weapons fall of fast unless you have a good base damage multishot riven.... 

[Robolaser]

Il y a 3 heures, Orakan a dit :

I just explained how status works on the upper section please look at that reply , even if you have hundred percent corrosive proc you can't manage to remove the armor cause its not scaling from the damage, you need to put it multile times . What is the point of  using a ROCKET LAUNCHER while spaming many rockets when I can one shot many targets with arca plasmor or tigris prime .

I know how status works, thanks. If you're modding your Ogris with corrosive, you're doing it wrong imo. With an adequate build, 3 shots are more than enough to annihilate a group lvl 120 heavy grineer units:

https://streamable.com/hk7pl

No buff, abilities, corrosive projection, arcane or riven. You can easily imagine how it would perform with an optimal setup. So, no i don't think the Ogris needs crit at all, but that's just my opinion.

Edited November 14, 2019 by Robolaser

[Madway7]

2 hours ago, Robolaser said:

I know how status works, thanks. If you're modding your Ogris with corrosive, you're doing it wrong imo. With an adequate build, 3 shots are more than enough to annihilate a group lvl 120 heavy grineer units:

https://streamable.com/hk7pl

No buff, abilities, corrosive projection, arcane or riven. You can easily imagine how it would perform with an optimal setup. So, no i don't think the Ogris needs crit at all, but that's just my opinion.

Not a lot of people like the faction damage mods, not completely sure, but I do feel that setup only worked because of that mod

[bubbabenali]

Not having to charge every shot makes the Kuva Ogris infinitely better. Sometimes I really think of equipping mine. Not a feat the ogris has. 

[Lone_Dude]

Kuva Ogris needs to have something like a Zarr-like shrapnel to make use of it's status. Maybe not a copy of Zarr shrapnel, maybe it should be something like a radial blast of hit-scan projectiles. Punch through on em would be nice. Not on the rocket itself though. It can have an interaction with the napalm mod too. Giving the blast projectiles a guaranteed heat proc even if you don't have heat mods installed. 

Giving it crit would just make it a copy of Kuva Tonkor. I'm opposed to that, just find it kinda boring.

Another buff it needs is reload speed.

[Orakan]

10 hours ago, Robolaser said:

I know how status works, thanks. If you're modding your Ogris with corrosive, you're doing it wrong imo. With an adequate build, 3 shots are more than enough to annihilate a group lvl 120 heavy grineer units:

https://streamable.com/hk7pl

No buff, abilities, corrosive projection, arcane or riven. You can easily imagine how it would perform with an optimal setup. So, no i don't think the Ogris needs crit at all, but that's just my opinion.

This whole video is proving my point . You can only fight enemies with that setup against paused ai enemies on similacrum. If you have tried this against 4 heavies while they are moving in a corpus or grineer ship tile set's narrow corriodors you will either be dead by them or kill yourself with your ogriss. You have fired 3 shots and reload which you can never be relaxed in a real scneario .

nightwatch napalm is now kinda  worth using after this patch cause of the fire proc's buff (again another status effect) which can be still problematic cause enemies constanly moving on real missions mostly if they do not gathered by some another force you can only hit 1 or 2 enemies with it and fire proc does not removing armor permanantly like corrosive does so because of that if you can't kill them in 1-2 seconds while in the area of the nightwatch napalm fire procs will removed from them and they will get back their armor and gas will be useless against all those heavy armors again.

It is still a downgrade to original ogriss and both of them are still weaker than shotguns which is not worth the risk of killing or harming yourself in the process.
So in tight corridors if you do want to get results against these they of enemies with a launcher while butchers trying to all chop you with their clevers (which can crit and do huge damage on higher levels) or a roller broking your aim and at the same time those couple heavies will rip and tear even the tankiest frames cause you have to kill them with 1 or max 2 shots without waiting for fire proc or corrosive procs removing their armor and let them gas procs do damage. 

For corpus missions or corrupted missions situation can be even  way worse cause they are using puncture weapons which is doing more damage to frames and while you have  enemies like nulifiers shields are proctecting some areas (in you are a corroidor whole corridor ) and combas closing your skills while other enemies are bursting their weapons on you. (on corrupted case is way worse cause ancient healers will be everywhere )

When launcher type weapons can kill enemeis without help of procs of any type they will be worth using to take a risk of harming yourself, and if we want to improve them and kuva ogriss only way is giving them way more direct damage .

Edited November 14, 2019 by Orakan

[Panser_Nes]

My only critique of the Kuva Ogris is the self-damage, apart from that it's entirely usable against anything that can be inflicted by statuses.

I really don't get the hate for this weapon, just mod for Gas, this thing destroys.

[Madway7]

20 minutes ago, Panser_Nes said:

I really don't get the hate for this weapon, just mod for Gas, this thing destroys.

Or how about DE just buffs the crit chance and we can be done with it?

[Despair-ZG]

On 2019-11-13 at 12:45 PM, Orakan said:

PS: Rocket launcher should kill the open world drop ships way better than snipers too so maybe adding an extra none visiable damage against those drop ships on orb vallis and plains of eidolon might be cool too

I am mostly interested in this part at the original post. How come a sniper can one shot a space ship while a rocket launcher can not? Seriously!!!

[0_The_F00l]

Yes, the kuva ogris does feel like it was treated like the unwanted offspring of a distant relative that died and left a huge debt for the relatives. 

Other than the bonus elemental damage (the lack of charging is nice though) the overall damage is lower, while the description specifically says that it's higher. 

Someone really dropped the ball on this weapon, and left it there. 

[Orakan]

3 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Yes, the kuva ogris does feel like it was treated like the unwanted offspring of a distant relative that died and left a huge debt for the relatives. 

Other than the bonus elemental damage (the lack of charging is nice though) the overall damage is lower, while the description specifically says that it's higher. 

Someone really dropped the ball on this weapon, and left it there. 

Probably no one in the comunity can summarize the situation better than this mate 

[Dr.Membrane]

Yo they fixed the damage numbers now, i allready tested it and YES it is a way stronger. I would even say it is now fairly good, i have nothing complain about anymore.^^ sweet

[tussletoes]

7 minutes ago, Dr.Membrane said:

Yo they fixed the damage numbers now, i allready tested it and YES it is a way stronger. I would even say it is now fairly good, i have nothing complain about anymore.^^ sweet

Yesss, Is it finally here? The day the Ogris is both fun and good?