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Will spin to win ever end?


MistressMoonpaw
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4 hours ago, --Q--Poeps said:

It already ended, the change of the melee damage calculation formula turned Maiming Strike into stinking trash. Anyone who is still using it probably has no clue that it's a slotwaste now.

I never even had the Maiming Strike mod so I didn't keep up with the changes to it. What exactly changed with it, and are Rivens with +Crit on Spin also changed? If they didn't change the Rivens then it may still work for those that choose this style.

Edited by No1NParticular31
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44 minutes ago, CeePee said:

Spin to win still oneshots lv100 enemies without maiming strike, that's more than enough for most content. You're no longer hitting 1M slide crits to clear lv400 enemies with 18 metre range, which is the thing that changed.

It was never 1m crit unless a mission went on for ages to the point where "why are you breaking your wrists" nor was it 18m range possible unless it was a zaw or scoliac with riven. IIRC non zaw/scoli bottomfeeder- i mean riven abuse hit its reasonability cap around 70k damage/120k dps (add 20k and 30k respectively if gladiator setup on sentinel that was alive at that point as DE at some point since OV release made it so that their set combo sticks through death) with whips prime reach slide range being around 9~10m. Assuming sustaining 3.5 combo without naramon is reasonable and rampup time is ignored.

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46 minutes ago, No1NParticular31 said:

I never even had the Maiming Strike mod so I didn't keep up with the changes to it. What exactly changed with it, and are Rivens with +Crit on Spin also changed? If they didn't change the Rivens then it may still work for those that choose this style.

Added critical chance on slide attack used to be additive, so 10% critical became 100% with +90%.  Now it's multiplicative, so its 10% * 1.9, or 19% critical chance.  It's the same for rivens and maiming strike.

In addition, Blood Rush used to apply to the entire critical amount, so that 100% would add 165% critical chance per combo multiplier on top of that.  In effect, you could get well over 500% critical chance on a slide attack with a weapon with 0% base critical chance.

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1 hour ago, Zekkii said:

Added critical chance on slide attack used to be additive, so 10% critical became 100% with +90%.  Now it's multiplicative, so its 10% * 1.9, or 19% critical chance.  It's the same for rivens and maiming strike.

In addition, Blood Rush used to apply to the entire critical amount, so that 100% would add 165% critical chance per combo multiplier on top of that.  In effect, you could get well over 500% critical chance on a slide attack with a weapon with 0% base critical chance.

Ahh. That a pretty big change.

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vor 10 Stunden schrieb Voltage:

Ninkondi Prime still gets red critical hits on slide attacks for loads of damage. Granted Condition Overload, Maiming Strike, and Blood Rush was heavily nerfed, it performs still alright. Besides, the game is centered around under level 100. Melee builds barely changed. If you only used Scoliac then sure, sliding is dead to you. Slide attacks in general are still good however.

Yea they are still good, what i meant is they are no longer that ridiculously much better than regular attacks as they previously were with slide cc as a "flat-bonus" pre bloodrush which was the core of spin2win.

And btw, not sure if I missed something but Blood Rush should have pretty much the same effectiveness as before. Now at 12x Combo it multiplies base cc by 7.6 which is the same multiplier it previously had at 4x Combo.

Edited by --Q--Poeps
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Just now, --Q--Poeps said:

Yea they are still good, what i meant is they are no longer that ridiculously much better than regular attacks as they previously were with slide cc as a "flat-bonus" pre bloodrush which more or less the core of spin2win.

And btw, not sure if I missed something but Blood Rush should have pretty much the same effectiveness as before. Now at 12x Combo it multiplies base cc by 7.6 which is the same multiplier it previously had at 4x Combo.

From a previous update hotfix note I posted:

On 2019-11-06 at 3:50 PM, Voltage said:
  • Blood Rush currently is additive to Critical Chance/Slide Attack Critical Chance. This should be reviewed as it makes Critical Chance and Slide Critical Chance much less desireable to equip.

This is why Maiming Strike is so bad right now. All critical chance enhancements currently add to Blood Rush to my knowledge.

Also, the old 4x Combo was also a damage multiplier which doesn't exist in this melee update. 

Slide Attacks are still good, but effectiveness was toned down heavily. Fortunately most of the game is trivial anyways so you will only see a lower damage number, not too big of a difference in time to kill unless you used Scoliac or something with Range abuse and horrendous base damage. Guandao is pretty much trash now too because it lacks status chance.

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Ever since the update the number of spin-to-winners I've run into has been reduced drastically. The only few I've seen were people who didn't realise it'd been nerfed, cried in chat about it being nerfed, then actually had to shoot things without using macros for once 😄

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11 hours ago, KIREEK said:

Why should it end?

In terms of gameplay it can be outpaced, efficiency comes from the player and with enough persistance and effort you can complement that player and even kill more than him, if that's your goal.

Remember that some players want to cut down on mission time and make them profitable, after 5k misisons hours and hours of grind can be cut down so it's normal for players to find an efficient way to do so, but spin to win is far from being OP or something that needs to be adressed by DE, whoever is efficient will remain efficient no matter the changes done.

As someone with 3.5K or whatever the hell hours, I respectfully, delicately, meekly submit that those mother#*!%ers can play by themselves. If the game is so terrible so awful so miserable that you cannot bear to be in game with out smashing your macro button for LITERAL HOURS at a time, keep your burgeois ennui woe is my first world existence bullS#&$ to yourself.

 

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vor 5 Minuten schrieb Voltage:

Blood Rush currently is additive to Critical Chance/Slide Attack Critical Chance. This should be reviewed as it makes Critical Chance and Slide Critical Chance much less desireable to equip.

Exactly, +CC and +Slide CC mods are insignificant now compared to Blood Rush at 12x Combo, but Blood Rush itself is still as indispensable as it was before.

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4 minutes ago, --Q--Poeps said:

Exactly, +CC and +Slide CC mods are insignificant now compared to Blood Rush at 12x Combo, but Blood Rush itself is still as indispensable as it was before.

Yep. Not to mention the rest of the mandatory mods are still in play, so Maiming Strike is the only thing really cut now. Melee builds are still pretty uninteresting, and I feel the most important stat is still range. This creates the same problem as before where you are looking at weapon dispositions instead of weapon types when trying to play the efficiency game. The problem in my eyes can only get worse with the separation of dispositions from families of weapons. I can foresee some weird vanilla weapon being the next big meta melee item to kill with due to Riven dispositions.

Edited by Voltage
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11 hours ago, IIDMOII said:

Spin to win is fixed.

oh really, i can't Kill things with beyblading now? watch me. 

though you even admit that even if you don't beyblade, every other button you press with Melee basically does anyways.

 

Quote

Blood Rush currently is additive to Critical Chance/Slide Attack Critical Chance. This should be reviewed as it makes Critical Chance and Slide Critical Chance much less desireable to equip.

or in less careful terms, useless in 99% of situations.

rip in pepperoni any Melee Weapons that don't have decent enough Crit Chances to use Crit related mechanics and now are unable to get Crits without using Avenger/Cat/Harrow.

7 hours ago, Andele3025 said:

It was never 1m crit unless a mission went on for ages to the point where "why are you breaking your wrists" nor was it 18m range possible unless it was a zaw or scoliac with riven. IIRC non zaw/scoli bottomfeeder- i mean riven abuse hit its reasonability cap around 70k damage/120k dps (add 20k and 30k respectively if gladiator setup on sentinel that was alive at that point as DE at some point since OV release made it so that their set combo sticks through death) with whips prime reach slide range being around 9~10m. Assuming sustaining 3.5 combo without naramon is reasonable and rampup time is ignored.

incorrect. previously Whips were ~15 Meters with Primed Reach, and ~21-24 Meters (depending on how perfect you could get your Riven) with a Riven on top of that.

dealing 7 digits in a single hit was most certainly not out of the question. you wouldn't do it with a Scoliac(note the next statement is included) since its main strength was Riven added Range, but other Weapons could hit levels like that if you needed them to.
and mind you, that's 7 digits without the ideal Rivens (no extra Crit Damage, no double Meme Strike, Et Cetera). infact i've done that with a pure Utility Riven, so effectively no Riven since we're talking about Damage Numbers here.

Edited by taiiat
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11 hours ago, Andele3025 said:

It was never 1m crit unless a mission went on for ages to the point where "why are you breaking your wrists" nor was it 18m range possible unless it was a zaw or scoliac with riven. IIRC non zaw/scoli bottomfeeder- i mean riven abuse hit its reasonability cap around 70k damage/120k dps (add 20k and 30k respectively if gladiator setup on sentinel that was alive at that point as DE at some point since OV release made it so that their set combo sticks through death) with whips prime reach slide range being around 9~10m. Assuming sustaining 3.5 combo without naramon is reasonable and rampup time is ignored.

25 rounds of Disruption, lv586 enemies, 3x multi, Zaw + Saryn says hi.

Literally 1,740,404 damage, literally 18m range. I know how my Zaw worked, I used it for a very long time.

The maiming strike nerf was justified, albeit a couple of years late. You can still spin, just the ridiculous top end damage is gone.

p5yNZpY.png

 

Another one with a more clear maiming strike crit:

5N7yOJr.png

Edited by CeePee
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well - ive got a cyath polearm zaw - its still a pretty good weapon  BUT the new stance is poor.

You can do all the fiddly combos and they work OK but all have an awkward or slow attack that breaks the momentum of an attack OR you can rush forward pressing quick melee and the thing spins like a helicopter while doing the best DPS for the weapon.

AS it happens I dont use this weapon much now as there are better weapon to use but it is literaly a spin to win stick now

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6 hours ago, taiiat said:

incorrect. previously Whips were ~15 Meters with Primed Reach, and ~21-24 Meters (depending on how perfect you could get your Riven) with a Riven on top of that.

dealing 7 digits in a single hit was most certainly not out of the question. you wouldn't do it with a Scoliac(note the next statement is included) since its main strength was Riven added Range, but other Weapons could hit levels like that if you needed them to.
and mind you, that's 7 digits without the ideal Rivens (no extra Crit Damage, no double Meme Strike, Et Cetera). infact i've done that with a pure Utility Riven, so effectively no Riven since we're talking about Damage Numbers here.

Wrong. Whip range specifically capped at 11m base range, 9m spin range, BECAUSE THAT IS WEAPON RANGE+STANCE/ATTACK MOD+PRIME REACH (which is around what balance was made; tho technically spring loaded blade existed but 30% for a mod slot is S#&$).
Riven cancer adding onto it AS I EXPLICITLY NOTED doesnt matter for the balance equation as balance should never be dicated by gacha RNG trash and you trying to excuse saving between 1 to 3 mod slots with a riven thereby directly increasing damage is not relevant.

2 hours ago, CeePee said:

25 rounds of Disruption, lv586 enemies, 3x multi, Zaw + Saryn says hi.Literally 1,740,404 damage, literally 18m range. I know how my Zaw worked, I used it for a very long time.

 

Read the comment again, do you not see the big fat "unless it was a zaw or scoliac with riven. non zaw/scoli bottomfeeder". Meme strike BR on weapons that were balanced (this includes the atterax) was capped at 70k damage a hit within 9~m within the reasonable bounds of 3.5 multi and just counting the weapons damage not buffs that work on any weapon from the frame itself/unless you dedicated the entire build (and as such did the naramon over zenurik sacrifice) and went ham on endless missions. Something by no means representative of normal reality. And no, it wasnt justified. Nor was making CO base damage or BR base crit calc. What is justified is making it e.g. a vigilante set like effect where slides have a 100% chance to get 3 levels of crit, which no matter the BR level would never stack as vigilante procs last ontop of the calculation. Or to make BR go from 165% to 60~75% with how 3x~ is now 12x~ (not nerfs, but recalculations for the new system).

Please, apply some basic logic and remember that YOU having rivens is not balancing factors, rivens in general are not a balancing factor, DE themselves explicitly stated so when they released the quickly to be revealed as RNG gacha p2w trash into warframe.

Edited by Andele3025
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18 hours ago, --Q--Poeps said:

It already ended, the change of the melee damage calculation formula turned Maiming Strike into stinking trash. Anyone who is still using it probably has no clue that it's a slotwaste now.

Yup. I have a Maiming Riven on my Scoliac and it's useless now.

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14 hours ago, CeePee said:

Spin to win still oneshots lv100 enemies without maiming strike, that's more than enough for most content. You're no longer hitting 1M slide crits to clear lv400 enemies with 18 metre range, which is the thing that changed.

why in the world anybody would waste time with lv400 enemies?

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6 hours ago, Voltage said:

I can foresee some weird vanilla weapon being the next big meta melee item to kill with due to Riven dispositions

My Dakra Prime is a beast now with my Riven, so I agree with this. I am glad that DE is making the lesser used weapons better. More variety.

Edited by RunningChaos
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10 minutes ago, CoefficientOfCool said:

some of us just want to see the world burn.

yeah I get that part, but... anything above lv100 is not supposed to be fought at all, it's there to tell you "hey dood, time to get the fek outta this mission", then rinse and repeat. Now that would be a definition of efficiency that would have me agree with...

Anything else would look like a waste of time to me, but hey that's just my opinion

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vor 15 Stunden schrieb CeePee:

Spin to win still oneshots lv100 enemies without maiming strike, that's more than enough for most content. You're no longer hitting 1M slide crits to clear lv400 enemies with 18 metre range, which is the thing that changed.

Tell me what melee still one shots a level 100 enemy. Unless you mean level 100 heavy gunners or bombards, it really doesn't matter as the smaller units are even easy to kill at level 120.

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