This may be your worst update yet.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

7 minutes ago, (XB1)Demon Intellect said:

The weird thing is that people have been make jeers at vets who say the game has no challenge by saying play the game without mods. Kinda weird that DE actually did that. 

But did they have to lock a frame behind that? No. They didn’t.

[Blaudari]

56 minutes ago, FuzzyRamen said:

DE please allow players to revoke the Lich if they already have the weapon please. You promise less grind mechanics and yet it is just cheap talk. I can agree why Warframe was dethroned as the top 10 games on Steam after this update since this is not a fun mechanic.

I can see how this is annoying, in a way, you choose to make a lich but if it has a weapon you already have then it does punish the player with grinding Murmurs to find out the 3 Requiem hints than you gotta find out the correct combination and if its the wrong one and the lich defeats you, you have to farm up more thralls to make the lich show themself again with the new combination and hopefully you got the right one so you can get rid of the lich. This is a bad design for the game and kinda kills the fun since the lich steals your stuff it buffs farming and grinding for something that you want to craft or increase relic rewards.

[FuzzyRamen]

9 minutes ago, (XB1)Demon Intellect said:

The weird thing is that people have been make jeers at vets who say the game has no challenge by saying play the game without mods. Kinda weird that DE actually did that. 

Challenges are fun and at times rewarding. This is not the case and totally the opposite.

[Blaudari]

5 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

But did they have to lock a frame behind that? No. They didn’t.

Agreed, locking a warframe behind arbitration is a really bad choice for the game as a Mastery rank 10 player as an example, would have to do EVERY NODE in the game just to do arbitration then they have to farm up the 25/75 total resources (forgot the name ._. ) just to get a beacon for the mission. Even DE knows that Arbitration is one of the least played game modes which is why they locked it behind that but that also punishes lower mastery rank players.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Just now, Blaudari said:

Agreed, locking a warframe behind arbitration is a really bad choice for the game as a Mastery rank 10 player as an example, would have to do EVERY NODE in the game just to do arbitration then they have to farm up the 25/75 total resources (forgot the name ._. ) just to get a beacon for the mission. Even DE knows that Arbitration is one of the least played game modes which is why they locked it behind that but that also punishes lower mastery rank players.

I wouldn’t mind if he was locked behind just Arbitrations. Replace the keys to his missions with his parts and increase the cost per part for 25 to 30.

[Blaudari]

Just now, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I wouldn’t mind if he was locked behind just Arbitrations. Replace the keys to his missions with his parts and increase the cost per part for 25 to 30.

Actually if they did that, then I'd probably do arbitration more tbh.

[Blaudari]

38 minutes ago, Prowombat said:

If this was the case people could just skip until they get the exact weapon they want however I do agree there should maybe be a lower chance to get a weapon you already have. 

I think they could do something like 3 day waiting time and they can't skip again until 3 days that way it won't be abused. I agree with the lower chance part, I'd like to have a higher chance to see weapons I can obtained.

Edited November 14, 2019 by Blaudari
didn't read the rest my fault sorry.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

4 minutes ago, Blaudari said:

Actually if they did that, then I'd probably do arbitration more tbh.

Exactly. Incentive to play Arbis more.

Also They became pretty trivial to me after I built the Acceltra. So do with that info as you will.

[Avienas]

1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I’m still upset that they did absolutely nothing about the Grendel farm. Guess I’m just not getting him.

Atleast with Grendel, you could prepare vitus essence in advance and people are more forced to think about every weapon/warframe they can make use of at its base level to see what clicks the best to handling it.

Though it does not help on a small twist of small irony, because D.E. crams every new warframe on the `latest content focus`, it results in newer frames, `sometimes, get stuck behind very hard content, meaning newer players will have to either buy the frame or be unable to really get the goods for a very long time.

I myself actually will have enough vitus essence to cover all the keys, once it comes console side, so that way i can just avoid needing to care about key`sharing and will likely just kidnap some clan/alliance members to `ride on my generosity`, by them bringing proper frames to handle the content, as thar part of contributing to getting grendel.

In a small twist also, Grendel is actually the best part of the old blood content since it has 0% rng-sus and is 100% about player skill to grind for those vitus essence and knowing how to use warframes/weapons at base tier to deal with high level enemies.

Shame the downside is D.E. clearly forgot how much of an impact that elemental weapons tend to be and plain old standard IPS is garbage to anything with armor on it and a level in the 30s or above.

Edited November 14, 2019 by Avienas

[Blaudari]

So I found something interesting that possibly makes the lich part of the update even worse. as if your Lich somehow has 1 of the 3 quirks, 2 of them being (possibly) rage inducing if you're trying to get rid of the lich and 1 which just outright increases the grind. Here it is for those who don't know.

[FuzzyRamen]

Just now, Blaudari said:

So I found something interesting that possibly makes the lich part of the update even worse. as if your Lich somehow has 1 of the 3 quirks, 2 of them being (possibly) rage inducing if you're trying to get rid of the lich and 1 which just outright increases the grind. Here it is for those who don't know.

I read that. It is the chart that RNGs your grind rate sadly, just like the multiple dupe weapons you are getting.

[Mikaer88]

1 hour ago, FuzzyRamen said:

Challenges are fun and at times rewarding. This is not the case and totally the opposite.

They ran out of juice and basically strip you of all your gear and call it a challenge. It's an annoying challenge.

[(XBOX)Demon Intellect]

2 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

But did they have to lock a frame behind that? No. They didn’t.

I dont care one way or the other.

Edited November 14, 2019 by (XB1)Demon Intellect

[(XBOX)Demon Intellect]

2 hours ago, FuzzyRamen said:

Challenges are fun and at times rewarding. This is not the case and totally the opposite.

People are really missing what I was saying. Never said it was a good idea just funny that DE actually went ahead and did a no mods mode.

[FuzzyRamen]

New "Hot Fix", watch these dumb Liches loop in a circles with duplicates between 2 weapons.

[Snydrex]

Look, Someone needs to say this. If you want DE to see this thread, please don't post in general discussion. Feedback section exists for a reason.

On that note, yeah, I believe this update caused some problems, but I'm also pleased with many things about it, so...

[FuzzyRamen]

2 minutes ago, Snydrex said:

Look, Someone needs to say this. If you want DE to see this thread, please don't post in general discussion. Feedback section exists for a reason.

On that note, yeah, I believe this update caused some problems, but I'm also pleased with many things about it, so...

I will make a post there too, but I seriously don't care anymore.

[Tailsx]

22 minutes ago, FuzzyRamen said:

New "Hot Fix", watch these dumb Liches loop in a circles with duplicates between 2 weapons.

Bruh, its a glorified trading room. You have to trade with another player to get a new lich. 

[FuzzyRamen]

1 minute ago, Tailsx said:

Bruh, its a glorified trading room. You have to trade with another player to get a new lich. 

Nah bruh, nobody wants a Kraken dude.

[Tailsx]

1 minute ago, FuzzyRamen said:

Nah bruh, nobody wants a Kraken dude.

Depends, if  it has heat on it, I will take it. I have a riven for kraken. 

[FuzzyRamen]

Nope impact.

[Tsardova]

On 2019-11-14 at 11:25 AM, trst said:

And in finishing that grind you should then have an understanding of the Lich system and a new Kuva weapon to use.

If someone manages to repeatedly make Liches accidentally after their first then it's their own fault.

That's logical fallacy still even if we're being generous about things though.

 

Those who do want to collect all lich weapons are pretty much forced to contend with the excessive rng no matter the excuse we can conjure for this half baked implementation.

 

There needs to be a way to lessen the RNG aspect in the grind process to alleviate the sensation of prolonged busy work so that if and when the spawned lich has the same thing people have already owned, they can make do with it with as little repeated effort as possible or still feel rewarded for the effort to make sure the "30 second loop" remains as rewarding as it could possibly feel.

 

Right now people are forced to slog through the same multitude of processes to possibly progress at all with even the touted "guarantee that the next lich won't have the same weapon" not exactly helping as it could very well be duplicate of another weapon that people have obtained prior all the same.

 

There needs to be a system that makes duplicates worth something to insinuate people's time investment isn't moot. Ergo incentivize prolonged interaction, enough to keep people occupied till next update.

Nothing lasts forever, to suggest that this gimmick will last forever or made arbitrarily egregiously padded out to make its intended purpose last longer than it's possibly should/ can is as creatively bankrupt as it can be. 

 

Without substantial changes being made to this gimmick, this whole update is just an exercise of repeated tedium displaying DE has learned nothing from NW and how to approach a worthwhile prolonged grind....

 

Only this time it's worse as there's no real visible projected timeline for an end goal due to egregiously unnecessary rng compared to NW's slog (which at the very least gives players a projected end goal to aim for).

Edited November 15, 2019 by Tsardova

[trst]

10 minutes ago, Tsardova said:

-snip-

Did you read the comment that reply was directed at? It was about being "forced" to deal with a Lich to get the stuff they're stealing from you, which is something that should only be happening once as you can't accidentally make a Lich more than once.

Also the solution to what you're talking about is already in, Lich trading. If anyone doesn't want to do any grinding at the risk of duplicates then they can trade for all their Liches. Or at least convert duplicate ones you spawn to Lich swap for those you want.

I've pointed out in other threads people should be requesting an upgrading system that lets us merge duplicate elements to bump up the bonus. Duplicates are annoying sure but I've not seen many people mentioning solutions and too many pointlessly complaining. But even without that there is now the option to trade duplicates which opens up plenty of uses for them.

And the only thing about the Lich grind that's unique is how delayed the rewards are. In fact the rates involved with getting a copy of every weapon, getting max rolls, and even getting every ephemera are better than the drop rates of many mods in the game.

[Tsardova]

2 hours ago, trst said:

Did you read the comment that reply was directed at? It was about being "forced" to deal with a Lich to get the stuff they're stealing from you, which is something that should only be happening once as you can't accidentally make a Lich more than once.

Also the solution to what you're talking about is already in, Lich trading. If anyone doesn't want to do any grinding at the risk of duplicates then they can trade for all their Liches. Or at least convert duplicate ones you spawn to Lich swap for those you want.

I've pointed out in other threads people should be requesting an upgrading system that lets us merge duplicate elements to bump up the bonus. Duplicates are annoying sure but I've not seen many people mentioning solutions and too many pointlessly complaining. But even without that there is now the option to trade duplicates which opens up plenty of uses for them.

And the only thing about the Lich grind that's unique is how delayed the rewards are. In fact the rates involved with getting a copy of every weapon, getting max rolls, and even getting every ephemera are better than the drop rates of many mods in the game.

And the problem will still be a thing all the same for those who do want to grind out the liches.... cite several of my old clanmates who decided to take a break from the whole grinding for the rest of the kuva weapons only to have their sortie reward stolen.

This discounting the fact that sometimes the stolen items somehow doesn't get returned for whatever reason. I.e. it's still demotivating even for those who do advocate their time to the game mode.

 

I thought tradable liches are just for ones that we converted as allies? If not then mind fillin me in with more detail on the system.

Sure trading duplicates helps alleviate the issue somewhat but then comes the RNG aspect of the stat roll on it... which is pretty much rivens all over again only this time it's a more padded out process to attain them that "god roll" kuva weapons are likely going to be the new playground for the "riven mafia".

But no.... saying "their drop chance is better than mods in the game" doesn't excuse the unnecessarily prolonged quadruple layered RNG of a system that everyone is subjected to to even get the rewards. The effort to reward ratio is still out of whack and the system does need some more change to incentivize prolonged engagement with the system.