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SolarDwagon

Thoughts on how to move towards a better RIven system

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12 minutes ago, SolarDwagon said:

 rivens are too valuable and are a massive problem for the game economy

what part of making lots of money is a problem???

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19 minutes ago, ILOHARTA said:

what part of making lots of money is a problem???

Note I said game economy. The problem is that they severely imbalance the market. Try actually using trading chat one of these days. There's also the problem with having most of the games economy around a power curve that most people aren't interested in because of the economy around it. On top of that, riven traders are in my experience the most toxic part of the entire community. Witness the massive claims of dying game every time DE even tweaks rivens, there's been instances of death threats over them...

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what I want is separate from what I suggest most of the time. DE has 0 incentive to change anything if they cannot profit from the change somehow, hence suggested values over 250k kuva for 3rd and/or 4th stat lock. you better believe those people will be buying boosters haha.

50 minutes ago, Goodwill said:

-snip-

holy dadberon... honestly never crossed my mind for things like this to be included/added onto rivens but i would 100% be behind this idea. kind of like a mix between amalgam mods and current riven mods. I feel like this may also help with price discrepancies bc certain playstyles might be worthless to person A but person B may love it. huh.. ty for suggestions, they helped make me think about this from a different perspective. 

 

also, I wouldn't hate the idea of rivens being limited to 1 or 2 trades max but I worry that this would just dramatically increase prices, especially for "god tier" rivens.

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1 hour ago, Goodwill said:

Personally, I think Rivens should be rebranded as Amalgam mods; make the benefit of Rivens the ability to fit more stats rather than better stats. Then also plaster on a rolled weapon effect like:

In general:
Headhunter: headshots critical multiplier doubled.
Marksman's Rush: maintaining over 50% accuracy increases damage by 50%.
Last Line: if magazine reloads less than magazine capacity, doubles critical chance.

Bows:
Silent and Efficient: impaling 2 or more enemies with a single arrow has a chance to drop energy orb.

Melee:
Executioner: finishers double critical chance.
Jugglenaught: enemies killed during lift status have a chance to drop health orbs.

Just some examples. It also fits into the theme that Rivens are unlocked by doing skill-based challenges (not really but let's just say so for the sake of argument (but maybe they really should be) and you can also access the full potential of your riven by playing that style.

 

This is essentially what I always thought Rivens would be before they were released. A much better idea than the current powercreep garbage we have at the moment.

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1 hour ago, SolarDwagon said:

Note I said game economy. The problem is that they severely imbalance the market.

free markets aren't unbalanced: they are free. Outsiders (those who are "not in the know") should steer away from, say, stock market exchange, because they will simply buy on "guts" instead of doing their homework with technical/fundamental analysis, staying connected to the administration boards of the company they want to invest in etc.
Rivens are precisely the same, from my point of view: believe it or not, I've seen people selling "god rolls" for 50p and same exact roll being sold for 2k. Now, whose fault this is? the system itself? DE? or maybe, just maybe, "distract" users?

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9 hours ago, Walkampf said:

You are confusing te terms of favourite Weapon and META Weapon.

 

I'm really not. Many of my favorite weapons aren't even meta weapons.

9 hours ago, Walkampf said:

What if my favourite weapon is a fairly weak one?

Then it should remain weak, comparatively.

If my favorite weapon is a pea shooter, then I shouldn't be able to use a riven mod to suddenly make it deal as much damage as a rocket launcher.

9 hours ago, Walkampf said:

This might come as a surprise, but you are not the center of the universe, which everything revolves around.

A childish statement.

This is a discussion forum. We're trying to discuss the riven system. If you can't handle that by leaving your emotions at the door, then why post at all?

9 hours ago, Walkampf said:

There are other people with other preferences.

Precisely. And every player should be given the ability to *ENHANCE* their own favorite weapons *EQUALLY*.

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What Riven market need is an auction house... they want you to trade them rivens for the one you want but trading those on trade chat has always been a nightmare.

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9 hours ago, Aluzhun said:

Precisely. And every player should be given the ability to *ENHANCE* their own favorite weapons *EQUALLY*.

What's the point of enhancing your favorite weapon if it remains unviable?

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Why not just increase thr chances of good stats the more you reroll? That would make me happy.

After rerolling something 30 plus times you should be garunteed something of actual use.

Not againat the rng of getting them or the unveiling.

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21 hours ago, CoefficientOfCool said:

rivens are not getting removed without a comparable plat sink being introduced. period. and even if said plat sink were introduced, why would they remove rivens? it makes no sense to hurt their bottomline to make a couple people feel vindicated in their hate of the riven system. personally, I'm not a huge fan of the current system either but without the introduction of new systems/plat sinks, I cant see how it would benefit DE to change anything. 

 

I think tweaks could be added to current system to help bridge the gap between the tradechat warriors and the more casual playerbase. for example, locking a stat seems like a popular suggestion by people wanting change. cool, i agree with the sentiment, but DE has to be able to monetize this so be ready for a 0.002% drop chance for RivenStatLocker4000 from kuva liches -or- purchasable from the market for 200+ plat. and I know A LOT of people that would spend 200+ plat for that. 

personally, I'm more a fan of introducing the option to lock a specific riven to a players account if they wanted to lock a stat onto said riven. and then DE could still encourage that person to lock more stats on their riven by using current resource acquisition methods to time-gate the fact that you cant immediately get a "god tier" riven once you agree to lock said riven to your account (i.e. - 50k kuva for 2nd stat lock, 250k kuva for 3rd, etc...). and that would encourage more boosters to be bought as well. 

all this is just personal opinion, which is to say, meaningless rambling. hope everyone has a good day.

Rivens aren't really a plat sink- the platinum is just changing hands to another player. The only plat sink involved with rivens is buying more inventory slots for them.

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23 hours ago, Frenotx said:

Rivens aren't really a plat sink- the platinum is just changing hands to another player. The only plat sink involved with rivens is buying more inventory slots for them.

They're not a plat sink, but I do think that there have been plat purchases specifically for riven trading. That's why I think DE aren't in a position to outright remove the system (although a significant number of people definitely want this) and why I tried to lay out a plan towards reducing the value and unreliability without deleting the value entirely.

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On 2019-11-14 at 1:06 AM, Celimbor said:

Removing them completely is the only right step.

No.

On 2019-11-14 at 1:13 AM, Walkampf said:

I very much agree with this.

Rivens are nothing more than lootboxes containing actual powerups.

Sure, you can't buy rivens and rerolls outright with money, but you are basically forced into buying a ressource booster.

So it's basically a lootbox-subscription.

No.

On 2019-11-14 at 2:46 AM, MPonder said:

1- Make them 1 time trade only.

2- Improve how much Kuva are gained per day in the server, with lichs, this probably increased the amount of Kuva that was being gathered in the server, but then, by giving the chance of the Relics to drop from Thralls, it all went down, they also removed kuva from Thralls right? Increase the reward in sortie, make it always up on Nightwave shop, lower the price on vitus essence, increase Kuva on Fortress, etc. More kuva, more rivens rolled, more good rivens on the market, more accessible price.

3- Increase Riven gain, they could pretty much lower the shard cost on Paladino to 4 or 5 shards, and make more fissures types for requiem relics on other planets. Improve the loot on requiem relics too, so people actually want to open them after they finish their lich hunt (if this is even going to happen lol).

4- Riven alerts to influence market price to go down: Check what Rivens have the highest price, do some alerts around it. Like, imagine making a Riven alert that will only generate Sniper rifles rivens every now and then, that would lower a lot the Rubico rivens price on the market. Now it is much lower Rubico rivens price than it used to be(cause nerfs), but when was higher, this could help.

5- ORRRRR Make achieving the Riven with the stats you want achievable by yourself (lock rolls???). Vulkar rivens are the one and only that I buy and roll every now and then, rolled tons of them, because when I was getting into eidolon hunt and understanding how to break the limbs, Rubico rivens and Lanka rivens were just out of reach for me at that points (I know you don't need Riven on these guys now ok), so I got my Vulkar Wraith a cheap riven, got a good roll (cc, ms, heat) by luck and was #*!%ing happy with the weapon and its performance (oneshotting). Since then, I tried so many times to get a CD, MS, CC riven, and I dunno, I think 1000K rolls on Vulkar rivens it is probably a low number to what I actually have, and I never got a CC, CD, MS one.

Yeah

, none of that's gonna happen.

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1 hour ago, SolarDwagon said:

They're not a plat sink, but I do think that there have been plat purchases specifically for riven trading. That's why I think DE aren't in a position to outright remove the system (although a significant number of people definitely want this) and why I tried to lay out a plan towards reducing the value and unreliability without deleting the value entirely.

While some people have undoubtedly purchased plat to buy rivens, consider also the people that DIDN'T buy plat because they just SOLD that riven. With the exception of people who just hoard plat endlessly (who are thus effectively removing it from the market, and thus a sink), the only money rivens actually make for DE is the plat spent on more riven slots. That revenue stream could very easily be replaced with any other special inventory, just like weapon slots, etc.

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On 2019-11-16 at 10:22 PM, Frenotx said:

While some people have undoubtedly purchased plat to buy rivens, consider also the people that DIDN'T buy plat because they just SOLD that riven. With the exception of people who just hoard plat endlessly (who are thus effectively removing it from the market, and thus a sink), the only money rivens actually make for DE is the plat spent on more riven slots. That revenue stream could very easily be replaced with any other special inventory, just like weapon slots, etc.

Rivens are priced higher than any other (regularly) traded item in the game, which incentives much larger plat purchases, and with people having larger plat inventories, chances are they're freer with their spending. Regardless of the presence or absence of the sink end, if someone bought a few thousand plat to buy a riven they were interested in, and said riven is outright deleted, I imagine this player would not be happy.

Now, I think the prices of rivens are both ridiculous and bad for the market of the game, in that they create a two-tier community (those who trade, and those who don't), and take emphasis away from any other trades (good luck getting prime parts in trade chat any more, let alone more rare trades), and as noted above create a situation where players feel a certain level of entitlement (not even saying wrongfully so) of the objects they purchased having a constant value, making it harder for DE to actually change them without widespread uproar. See literally any riven balance thread for examples. So making the system a little more accessible seems a good start to bringing the entire situation back under control.

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