el_chanis Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 (edited) If Blood Rush was an issue in melee, NERF IT. Buffing already strong mods makes no sense. We are WAY TOO STRONG. Sorties BOSSES last about 2-3 seconds (minus invul phases). Eidolons can be one-shoted. Liches are a joke full of BS mechanics. There is nothing in the game that trully represents a challenge for us. We deal insane damage, we have way too many revives per mission, and, save for a few exceptions (mostly corpus heavy units), enemies can barely interact with us. The only missions i have ever failed in the last 3 years were sortie rescue/spy missions where someone screws it at hacking. Exterminate, Survival, Defense, Mobile Defense, Sabotage, Hijack, Interception, even Disruption, are all a walk in the park. I have never, EVER, in the last 3 years, went into one of those missions thinking "it will be hard, think we can fail this". The only somewhat "difficult" mission is Defection, because of the absurd mechanic of the mission. I remember how hard, challenging and rewarding the game was when sorties first came out. Now sorties are a chore, Please DE, bring back the difficulty. Give us the FEAR to loose. Edited November 15, 2019 by el_chanis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterc3 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Seems like this is something better pointed at your fellow players than the devs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_chanis Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 Just now, peterc3 said: Seems like this is something better pointed at your fellow players than the devs. Except that DE was the one who buffed the crit mods, not the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taiepii Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 What most frustrating then see our favorite build being nerf ? I think the buff of crit weapon were justified. It was for those who dont play by the combo multiplier. And blood rush is only strong if you do build up your combo. Eidolon are not one-shot by a mere weapon. There is specific setup to it. And its not a mere player that one shot its shield with an amp. Just say thank to youtube that gave casu player the tips to how to kill eidolon fast. I agree though that the game is too easy and need more end game content. But never by nerfing. I rather have stronger boss. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceColdHawk Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 (edited) Which "already strong" mods got buffed again? I don't remember any. Besides, Blood Rush was nerfed. How hard must the lag have been that your thread came out weeks too late? Edited November 15, 2019 by IceColdHawk 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xzorn Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 DE can't stop Power Creep and it might not technically be a fault from a business standpoint but it most certainly is from a development point. DE needs to entice players. This game is almost exclusively rewards driven. Players won't do content unless there's incentive thus Power Creep. This is pretty normal in any long term RPG-style game. Where it goes wrong and when it's certainly DE's fault is their infuriating neglect to create content which gives room for the Power Creep they've introduced over time. Instead they attempt to push it all back down every once in a while in an unending circle that creates a fairly toxic situation and more often than not makes the game play a worse experience overall by introducing exceptions to rules and cheap enemy designs. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltage Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 The Critical Chance mod buffs are actually an indirect nerf to Blood Rush if you understand stat dilution. This change doesn't make Blood Rush any less mandatory. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterc3 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 13 minutes ago, el_chanis said: Except that DE was the one who buffed the crit mods, not the players. Must have imagined the endless forum posts any time anything remotely difficult is released. My bad. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GruntBlender Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 You want to nerf yourself, play without potatoes or forma. How many hours is your longest kuva survival? You CAN make the game harder for yourself. The thing is, nobody is going to support you when a great portion of the players are salty over the catchmoon and CO nerfs. The only way an overall nerf will be accepted now is if they finally fix level scaling, all the weird power creep mechanics come from a need to overcome that stupid exponential EHP rise. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)FriendSharkey Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Sure get rid of the power creep, but they need serious rewards, not parsed out nonsense and mods nobody cares about to warrant the fifteen minute slog just for that singular pull at the RNG handle...and they can't keep their 1% drop chance on the good stuff either...if you want to be fair. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)HAPPYHapyJ0YJoy Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 (edited) Increasing player power in relation to game content isn't "power creep." That's a misnomer. That term has a specific meaning, and players have a nasty habit of misusing it. It has nothing to do with difficulty and is a design problem. Power creep refers to the increase in power of rewards or content in relation to other like content and how it can lead to the obsolescence of content. So, for instance, if a new weapon comes out which is more powerful than a older weapons, and older weapons fall out of use because of it, that's power creep. Rivens, despite increasing player power, are actually specially designed to combat this type of power creep (though how well they manage it is up for debate). Another typical example would be when new content such as a raid or expansion releases and it offers rewards which outstrip that given for previous content that would be power creep, and is seen as dangerous since it has the potential to make all other content irrelevant. Even if the difficulty of the content is *higher* relative to player power, and the game becomes more difficult as a result. Since if you can manage the new content, and it's drops are better, you suddenly have no reason to play older content, as it doesn't have a similar payout. Thus you can potentially be making playing 90% of your game pointless. That's player creep. What you're talking about are just plain old difficulty issues. Edited November 15, 2019 by (XB1)HAPPYHapyJ0YJoy 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyreaus Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 1 hour ago, el_chanis said: There is nothing in the game that trully represents a challenge for us. Then maybe it's time to start looking at challenge potential outside of damage output and enemy HP. The game centres around power fantasy and that doesn't often play nice with difficulty that comes down to the comparison of two numbers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xzorn Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 1 hour ago, (XB1)HAPPYHapyJ0YJoy said: That's player creep. What you're talking about are just plain old difficulty issues. What you said is accurate and most common for any number of MMO games though I feel it does still apply to Warframe sadly. When you break down Difficulty to it's simplest form it's nothing more than a measurement. Levels are used to estimate this measurement. Challenge of course is something completely different though they do interact; often in an exponential increase. I would claim DE's persistence in keeping a static level regardless of items, mods, arcane and gear has resulted in making the entire game pointless. The simple result of Power Creep without opposition on a global scale within the game. Essentially we're all Raid geared characters tearing up newbie zones. Warframe has the somewhat unique capacity to maintain relevance for majority of it's content simply by using the tools already at hand and they've proven they can do these things yet refuse. Faster scaling, Enemies in Vallis who gain abilities with increased alert level, Bounties which introduce a dynamic objective system, random encounters like syndicates and shadow stalker and at it's core is the randomly generated tilesets. It's all there and none of it would be wasted by just lifting the ceiling some. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raikh Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Power Creep increases the power ceiling. Nothing like that was done here. If you used sacrifical steel after Update 26 you did it wrong. With Blood Rush no longer being its own multiplier crit chance mods other than it were obsolete. The current buffs to the crit chance mods will probably still not make them competitive. Maybe for specific heavy attack setups but general play blood Rush is still miles ahead. Blood Rush has already bee nerfed. Melee has already been nerfed quite signficantly in terms of its scalability and what we don't need is being all our tools being run into the ground so the easy old content somehow becomes more difficult again. We need new content to match our power and expand the options in the game. This change is everything but power creep and claiming so just shows a lack of understanding. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Test-995 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 3 hours ago, el_chanis said: If Blood Rush was an issue in melee it's not, sacrificial steel/true steel was an issue in melee, for being too weak. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grindbert Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 so the dmg just got nerfed by 90% and you still want it nerfed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_chanis Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 5 hours ago, grindbert said: so the dmg just got nerfed by 90% and you still want it nerfed? Yes. Thats how OP we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grindbert Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 (edited) and we will always be. the space ninja power trip is what the game is about. the only thing that's being nerfed is the fun the game provides. Edited November 15, 2019 by grindbert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_chanis Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 7 minutes ago, grindbert said: and we will always be. the space ninja power trip is what the game is about. the only thing that's being nerfed is the fun the game provides. Ahm... no? The game was REALLY HARD at first. It started to became easy after Plains of Eidolon, where 90% of the content is low level, and the rewards are equally needed for both new and veteran players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grindbert Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 i have no idea what you're talking about. i have been playing long before poe and nothing has ever been difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CpT-LaZeR Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 sounds like someone didnt farm grendel yet.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_chanis Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, CpT-LaZeR said: sounds like someone didnt farm grendel yet.. Grendel is hard to get because the missions are BS, not because the game has a well designed difficulty. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grindbert Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 (edited) my grendel is minmaxed (except for lacking an umbra forma) already, what are you talking about? beautiful pink/brown medium rare meatball of uselessness. the missions were nowhere near difficult. trin+2 volt+equinox. it was a snoozefest. Edited November 15, 2019 by grindbert 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)HAPPYHapyJ0YJoy Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 19 hours ago, Xzorn said: What you said is accurate and most common for any number of MMO games though I feel it does still apply to Warframe sadly. Oh it definitely does. Like you said, almost all online games really. Devs have a habit of wanting new content to be popular for the sake of metrics, for it to draw players in or back, and so most will wedge all the shiny into the newest content, and leave rewards for older content to stagnate. It's sad. And drives players to one thing, hampers choice, and just... makes games boring. I don't think there's a dev who doesn't know the issues. It's a Game Design 101 thing. They all seem to jump down that particular well anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xzorn Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 19 hours ago, Raikh said: If you used sacrifical steel after Update 26 you did it wrong. Blood Rush has already bee nerfed. Melee has already been nerfed quite signficantly in terms of its scalability and what we don't need is being all our tools being run into the ground so the easy old content somehow becomes more difficult again. We need new content to match our power and expand the options in the game. That's not exactly accurate. Sacrificial Steel was used for pure physical Bleed builds. The alternates being Cold duration exploit and Lasting Sting. All of which compete or beat Viral + Slash in Bleed DPS though obviously the latter have a longer wind up. Haven't done the new math yet but probably still end up running both. I agree we need content to oppose our power or better yet a core system that allows all current and previous content to do that. In most games this is just enemy Level but Warframe is broken so it would require a bit more. Warframe lacks a sturdy foundation to build on. Always has. DE needs to stop simply stacking band-aid fixes and stand alone content to the game and work on the backbone which in turn will spread to current and future additions. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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