Getting Hate for Not Attacking Nemesis

[Aldain]

1 minute ago, No1NParticular31 said:

OK then. For the record it's not like I am a veteran of many years. I think I will hit the 190 day mark tomorrow, so it's not super difficult to get powered up. I will say that just like everything else in WF certain frames are better than others for specific tasks. If your frame is having difficulty with Lich level mobs, perhaps try a different frame or load out? Not trying to fight, just trying to be helpful here.

I do acknowledge that with the recent upheaval of melee "re-balancing" that people's normal builds and load outs may no longer be optimal and may take some work to get back up to par.

It isn't like the Lichs are impossible to defeat, overall the biggest issue I've heard from people are Toxin Tonkors being comically overpowered.

It is just the lack of agency that a player has in determining how fast their Lich levels up that is the problem overall, since the only way to drive them off is to die to them and level them up many people who don't want to be saddled with a level 100 stalker will take the alternative option of not killing them and just completing the mission.

Basically the entire argument between the two factions are due to the faults of the system causing issues that cause the friction, as CuChulainn mentioned.

Though I will say kudos on making a thread that looks for a compromise rather than blaming one side or the other, it is painfully rare to find anyone willing to do that even if they don't agree with the issues at hand overall.

[CuChulainnWD]

3 minutes ago, Aldain said:

It isn't like the Lichs are impossible to defeat, overall the biggest issue I've heard from people are Toxin Tonkors being comically overpowered.

It is just the lack of agency that a player has in determining how fast their Lich levels up that is the problem overall, since the only way to drive them off is to die to them and level them up many people who don't want to be saddled with a level 100 stalker will take the alternative option of not killing them and just completing the mission.

Basically the entire argument between the two factions are due to the faults of the system causing issues that cause the friction, as CuChulainn mentioned.

Though I will say kudos on making a thread that looks for a compromise rather than blaming one side or the other, it is painfully rare to find anyone willing to do that even if they don't agree with the issues at hand overall.

Agreed. The whole situation sucks, and could have been prevented from the get go. I like to engage my lich personally and have convinced those that don't with rational reasonable arguments that they pretty much swiftly agree. Very few people hold up the party. Yeah you take a cheap death, but you do make forward progress. Even if your Lich gets stronger, you still have that team of fellow Tenno backing you up to engage YOUR Lich, especially when it counts for the final show down.

All of that said, DE needs to say sorry to their awesome animators but the cheap kills on Tenno have to go, or be included elsewhere, and those that want to engage their Lich should be able to sweep aside others who do not wish to engage their Lich with no penalty.

[Aldain]

1 minute ago, CuChulainnWD said:

Agreed. The whole situation sucks, and could have been prevented from the get go. I like to engage my lich personally and have convinced those that don't with rational reasonable arguments that they pretty much swiftly agree. Very few people hold up the party. Yeah you take a cheap death, but you do make forward progress. Even if your Lich gets stronger, you still have that team of fellow Tenno backing you up to engage YOUR Lich, especially when it counts for the final show down.

All of that said, DE needs to say sorry to their awesome animators but the cheap kills on Tenno have to go, or be included elsewhere, and those that want to engage their Lich should be able to sweep aside others who do not wish to engage their Lich with no penalty.

You're one of the rare ones in that regard, most people (at least from the threads I've seen) just don't care about the person holding their Lich up or the problems they may be having with it.

I can fully agree that it is a problem holding up other players spawns, though the solutions some people suggest (mostly pointless punishments) in threads make my stomach churn.

I haven't seen most of the animations myself, but how many of those animations are decidedly lethal? If most are just heavy injury they could get away with it just hurting the player instead of killing them outright which would be a way to keep the animations and show that the Lich isn't going to die so easily.

As for the leveling system, I think that would need some sort of adjustment to where the Lich gets stronger the more you learn of it, for example for every Requiem you uncover it gets stronger and more desperate to stop you. This would cause the Lich to level up at a predictable pace and make more sense from a narrative standpoint, the Lich is aware you are getting close to killing it for good so it starts being more ferocious like a cornered rat.

[CuChulainnWD]

10 minutes ago, Aldain said:

You're one of the rare ones in that regard, most people (at least from the threads I've seen) just don't care about the person holding their Lich up or the problems they may be having with it.

I can fully agree that it is a problem holding up other players spawns, though the solutions some people suggest (mostly pointless punishments) in threads make my stomach churn.

I haven't seen most of the animations myself, but how many of those animations are decidedly lethal? If most are just heavy injury they could get away with it just hurting the player instead of killing them outright which would be a way to keep the animations and show that the Lich isn't going to die so easily.

As for the leveling system, I think that would need some sort of adjustment to where the Lich gets stronger the more you learn of it, for example for every Requiem you uncover it gets stronger and more desperate to stop you. This would cause the Lich to level up at a predictable pace and make more sense from a narrative standpoint, the Lich is aware you are getting close to killing it for good so it starts being more ferocious like a cornered rat.

The systems are already in place to make our Lich stronger. There is nothing wrong with putting down our Lich and for it to return stronger in the current iteration of our mechanics.

As for the Tenno Kill animations. There is a sweet snatch and toss a Lich does to our Tenno if we engage with someone elses Lich and we are not carefull. I have yet to see a means of not being caught by it other than to attack it from its rear or flanks. Even then you know the Light show our monitors can be cluttered with when engaged in combat, even then it can be difficult to avoid. The actaull "Cheap Kill" animations are pretty cool. One has been fondly dubbed the Bane back breaker. It looks great, but I can appreciate peoples concerns that it is still a cheap kill because they have the wrong or no mod in the right parazon slot.

[Aldain]

1 minute ago, CuChulainnWD said:

The systems are already in place to make our Lich stronger. There is nothing wrong with putting down our Lich and for it to return stronger in the current iteration of our mechanics.

I only suggested that as a spur of the moment way to make it more controllable so players don't go from level 50 to 100 in 4 fights with their Lich. But that's just my personal thoughts on the system, I don't have that big of a problem with it myself.

As for the animations I think I recall seeing some prototypes of them that Steve or somebody posted on twitter, the were amazingly choreographed, I recall the back breaker as one of them. From my memory I only recall one that looked outright lethal, I even remember a few where the Tenno gets roughed up but breaks away from the Lich with a kick to the face. I hope DE can find a way to both fix the automatic death and keep the animations.

[Ikserdok]

3 hours ago, No1NParticular31 said:

OK this is a serious question: Why would you NOT want to attack the Lich? If you do not have all or even any of the mods figured out then that means you are still collecting murmurs and attacking it gives you basically a full mission's worth of murmurs in exchange for 1 revive. That speeds up the process of collecting murmurs immensely and either confirms or rules out at least 1 mod. I have gotten lucky once and had my attack on a Lich tell me my guess for the first slot was correct before I collected enough murmurs to know any of them yet. I am just not seeing any downside to doing it. If you know something I don't, please share.

because of his rage mainly

I dont care about this low amount of 10 murmurs from lich if he is losing full rage after failed attemp if I would have sure I would have very high chance to spanw my lich on next or next 2nd mission to then stab him to check just revealed mod order or just to kill him finally

example which I had most often:

got 2 mods revealed, need only 1 up to 3 missions of farm to get last mod reevealed, also already know order as I was checking it every mod revealed - lich 3lvl and hich rage meter - so high chance for my lich to spawn but still not 100%

and now unfortunately my lich is spawning, well, I prefer to leave him - 10 additional murmurs wont bless me from him at cost of losing his rage meter so I have to choices:

1) stab him and die gaining additional murmurs in cost of his rage meter, now I got revealed last mod or still need to do just 1 mission, ok, ready to kill - go on 1 mission with low or no rage of lich - he wont spawn even when others are not spawning, go on 2nd mission, still nothing, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, lets say he is finally spawning on 7th mission of wasting my time farmin more thralls just to fill rage meter of lich while you are 100% sure of mods and their order to kill your lich

conclusions: maybe I stabed lich at end gaining bonus murmurs - but still had to do many more missions just to fill rage meter of lich and be dependent on the mercy of very very low RNG to get spawned lich earlier with very low rage - in average I had to do 5 - 10+ missions not only once to get my lich spawned when I was going with this option, seems like very much time wasted yes? just for single lich

 2) leave lich, I wont gain bonus murmur which I will get at all from rest of this mission and next one, teammates are now insulting me for this decision and forcing me to stab lich, I still dont do, ok, mission finished, next mission also finished and got revealed last mod, ready to kill my lich - going on next missions an there is higch chance my lich is spawning ready to kill, if not then Im getting himm up to next 2 missions an Im done with this lich

conclusions: I stayed with clear mind to not waste my own time as I knowed I will be ready to kill my lich very soon while ingoring insults teammates to me which tbh alos was nto ready to kill their own lich,

they was toxic to me because they wanted an not guaranteed chance of spawning their lich to get bonus 10 murmurs but I stayed with my clear mind to hold up an singlem, maybe two missions to not get punished by mindless stabbing my own lich and by this punishing myself for wasting time for next 5-10 mission for only to get lich finally spawned for kill

 

so at the end..why I should punish myself for what I wrote above only to please an toxic randoms which dont care for anyone else than them or their playstyle? why I should support their toxicity in cost of my gameplay, my enjoyjment of this game?

[Ikserdok]

On 2019-11-15 at 9:59 PM, Jitsuryoku said:

Imagine this fictional scenario:

• You choose to go multiplayer (where other players do ALL the killing if needed).
• You screw over the entire team.
• You get explained that you're screwing over the entire team.
• You continue to knowingly screw over teams.
• You then go on forums and play a victim.

Imagine this:

 - You choose to go multiplayer (where other players do ALL the killing if needed).

 - Your lich spawns in while you don't want him to

 - You are not ready to kill him and not wanting to waste your things on making suicide

 - Your randoms get pissed at you for not deathstriking your lich because you don't want to get saddled with a lich you can't destroy

 - You cant explain them anything as why etc because theya re to arrogant, toxic and busy insulting you

 - go on forums providing feedback and options what to change in this flawed system

 - still get insulted by arrogant players saying this only your fault, not flawed content design without contributing literaly any constructive feedback to this in an feedback thread

[Miyabi-sama]

17 минут назад, Ikserdok сказал:

so at the end..why I should punish myself by playing entirely new and raw game mode only to encounter toxic randoms which try to play said game mode as intended by devs? why I should give a flying bolt about majority's need instead of my gameplay, my enjoyjment in this cooperative game?

Here. Quick fixed that for ya.

[Jitsuryoku]

Just now, Ikserdok said:

Imagine this:

 - You choose to go multiplayer (where other players do ALL the killing if needed).

 - Your lich spawns in while you don't want him to

 - You are not ready to kill him and not wanting to waste your things on making suicide

 - Your randoms get pissed at you for not deathstriking your lich because you don't want to get saddled with a lich you can't destroy

 - You cant explain them anything as why etc because theya re to arrogant, toxic and busy insulting you

 - go on forums providing feedback and options what to change in this flawed system

 - still get insulted by arrogant players saying this only your fault, not flawed content design without contributing literaly any constructive feedback to this in an feedback thread

I'd be genuinely glad to hear what you waste by committing suicide in game. To my knowledge it's nothing but advantages (you get progress, you get to guess a card and COMPLETELY SKIP IT, BECAUSE IF YOU GUESS A REQUIEM YOU DON'T KNOW IT IS UNLOCKED AND EXISTING PROGRESS CARRIES OVER TO  NEXT REQUIEM, and on top of that you open t he gate for other liches, so potentially +10 thralls). Literally the only negative I know of is is the fact you can't go solo to kill it....

That'd be quite a spit in the face if you screw people over in 20 missions to be able to go solo for 1. And if you don't go solo, you have no reason not to kill.

Anyways, feel free to enlighten me on this topic.

As for the "toxicity" think of it this way. Every time YOU don't kill a lich (that is not at the end of the mission), every player on the team has to do 1 (maybe 0.8) extra mission. I'd say it's about as valid reason to be angry as a player who uses that unkilled lich to sabotage the mission (like bring it to defense objective or get irradiated and kill the target).

It's no different than you calling entire group of people you have never met "arrogant".

[Ikserdok]

9 minutes ago, Miyabi-sama said:

Here. Quick fixed that for ya.

nicely fixed but I would add to this majority which is not that bright, because they are majority it doesnt means they are fully right in how it should be played

as it was also mentions, this system curently is most efficient if you stab your lich more like "tactical" than blindly stab every time it spawns

and this is noone's fault, this is just this flawed design where this "majority" want just to go around this blidnly, not caring for anything else a "out of sight, out of mind" and by this way they are just insulting anyone other thinking different than them

 

its is not like that if majority is telling this way is better it is realy better because they have nto tried other way or maybe it is? when majority tell 1 thing it always must be truth because majority thinks so?

[Ikserdok]

1 minute ago, Jitsuryoku said:

I'd be genuinely glad to hear what you waste by committing suicide in game. To my knowledge it's nothing but advantages (you get progress, you get to guess a card and COMPLETELY SKIP IT, BECAUSE IF YOU GUESS A REQUIEM YOU DON'T KNOW IT IS UNLOCKED AND EXISTING PROGRESS CARRIES OVER TO  NEXT REQUIEM, and on top of that you open t he gate for other liches, so potentially +10 thralls). Literally the only negative I know of is is the fact you can't go solo to kill it....

That'd be quite a spit in the face if you screw people over in 20 missions to be able to go solo for 1. And if you don't go solo, you have no reason not to kill.

Anyways, feel free to enlighten me on this topic.

As for the "toxicity" think of it this way. Every time YOU don't kill a lich (that is not at the end of the mission), every player on the team has to do 1 (maybe 0.8) extra mission. I'd say it's about as valid reason to be angry as a player who uses that unkilled lich to sabotage the mission (like bring it to defense objective or get irradiated and kill the target).

It's no different than you calling entire group of people you have never met "arrogant".

done 20+ liches, atleast 1st 10 of them I was blindly stabbing every time they spawned, till now havnt get single mod guessed right so every time most efficient was jsut killing thralls

as I was writing, bonus 10 murmurs per suicide on lich wont save you if you will get waste enrage of your lich when it will be ready to kill, this will make opposite of good for you

if you want so badly your lich then feel fre to go solo, as I have also experienced it to not get spanwed my lich on mission ready to kill because others refused to kill their own, I was jsut going on solo to do it because what is big deal of it if I know my lich will spawn as it have high rage meter? there I had alos low rage meter of my lich so I was going on public with hope maybe RNGsus will bless me and my will spawn, if not, well, not big deal as it have low rage, so atleast I will get much more thralls killed and so mission would be more efficient than going solo

toxicity is starting when other players are staling insluting you because you have choosed something different than they wanted

you know if you farm murmur it i most officient to not stab any lich at start and not to kill every enemy around him, most efficient is to keep lich not stabbed and some enemies around so they will turn into more additional murmur thralls but here we have everyone around not thinking about it and just stabing lich as fast as possible ignoring option for additional thralls in it - here I cant see literally any toxicty as players shouting to not kill your lich yet! wait with stab on him! let him spawn more thralls! no, I havn't seen even once but I see nonstop jsut arrogant people not seeing literaly any other options than blindly and mindlessy stab every lich which will spawn, without single thought about - maybe there is more efficient way to killing your lich than mindlessy without any tacting, rethink stabbing everything, everyone around because you are to busy of being truly selfish and not thinking about others with other options

[Miyabi-sama]

25 минут назад, Ikserdok сказал:

but I would add to this majority which is not that bright

Why playing public then?

35 минут назад, Ikserdok сказал:

its is not like that if majority is telling this way is better it is realy better because they have nto tried other way or maybe it is? when majority tell 1 thing it always must be truth because majority thinks so?

When the majority says you have to go in church at mornings they might be wrong.

When the majority says you stalling their progress they are by fact correct.

[Ikserdok]

10 minutes ago, Miyabi-sama said:

Why playing public then?

When the majority says you have to go in church at mornings they might be wrong.

When the majority says you stalling their progress they are by fact correct.

yea, this blindless of people, who dont want to read with understanding...or just sorry if I wrote it not clear as Im not the best at english 😐

playing public becasue with full team you got 3-4x more thralls to farm murmur than going solo - this is main reason fo farminf murmur on public with randoms

 

and majority saying you steal their progress - this doesnt mean it is not also in opposite, it doeasnt mean this minority is doing it specially for no reason but just to annoy rest yet we have our reasons to not stab our liches which are not that meaningless to ignore, because we are minority to you it doesnt mean majority is allowed opress, insult us for our also matter choice

in shorted...because you are majority and we are minority it doesnt matter majority is allowed since beggining to piss minority in every other angle which majority dont like

[CuChulainnWD]

1 minute ago, Ikserdok said:

yea, this blindless of people, who dont want to read with understanding...or just sorry if I wrote it not clear as Im not the best at english 😐

playing public becasue with full team you got 3-4x more thralls to farm murmur than going solo - this is main reason fo farminf murmur on public with randoms

 

and majority saying you steal their progress - this doesnt mean it is not also in opposite, it doeasnt mean this minority is doing it specially for no reason but just to annoy rest yet we have our reasons to not stab our liches which are not that meaningless to ignore, because we are minority to you it doesnt mean majority is allowed opress, insult us for our also matter choice

in shorted...because you are majority and we are minority it doesnt matter majority is allowed since beggining to piss minority in every other angle which majority dont like

Fellow Tenno we should be helping each other, not tearing at each others throats.  The reason we have this divide is on the heads of DE and their incompetence in executing what could be an excellent game mode. Right  now it has its flaws, whether DE decides to get off their asses and address any of these issues before Friday is anyone's guess. Holwing for Bans on fellow Tenno because of DE's incompetence is not the direction we should be taking either. We should be banding together and howling at DE to get this fixed and fixed right Sharpish, not two weeks from now.

All of that said, OBJECTIVELY given the state of our current mechanics in game, there is NO reason not to attack your Lich other than, we all agree, it is a cheap death to take when the Lich are supposed to be Lich, we can defeat them and they can come back stronger.  Remember Tenno, this is a Co-op game, and the Lich Spawns as the game mode works now, spawn sequentially. One person deciding NOT to engage their lich, leaves a majority out. I have done hundreds of missions hunting Requiems and 21 Lich's; it is very few people who want to hold out. When you rationaly explain to them the reasoning to engage, they all pretty much get it. Be polite. Be understanding. And to those not wishing to engage your Lich in a PUB/PUG remember if the majority want to, you ARE holding their game session hostage. Remember, it is a co-op game, that means when it comes time for your Final showdown, that R5 Lich is not going to be too much trouble when you have 3 other Tenno at your back when it is YOUR turn to engage your Lich.

[Miyabi-sama]

1 час назад, Ikserdok сказал:

you know if you farm murmur it i most officient to not stab any lich at start and not to kill every enemy around him, most efficient is to keep lich not stabbed and some enemies around so they will turn into more additional murmur thralls

How much thralls you kill on average per one mission?

[CuChulainnWD]

Just now, Miyabi-sama said:

How much thralls you kill on average per one mission?

It can range from 5-15, and with a Lich engagement for the owner it is another x10. When DE decided to be generous, EVERYONE who engaged the Lich got x10. That was an entertaining couple of days.

[Ikserdok]

4 minutes ago, CuChulainnWD said:

It can range from 5-15, and with a Lich engagement for the owner it is another x10. When DE decided to be generous, EVERYONE who engaged the Lich got x10. That was an entertaining couple of days.

and when they fixed it there I stopped stabbing every lich blindly

6 minutes ago, Miyabi-sama said:

How much thralls you kill on average per one mission?

on solo mission to not prelong it unecessary I had not more than 5 ever once, in public games it is from minimum 5 to 15 and more if lich will spawn more..and this minimum in public is way faster than in solo

[Miyabi-sama]

10 минут назад, CuChulainnWD сказал:

It can range from 5-15, and with a Lich engagement for the owner it is another x10. When DE decided to be generous, EVERYONE who engaged the Lich got x10. That was an entertaining couple of days.

 

4 минуты назад, Ikserdok сказал:

and when they fixed it there I stopped stabbing every lich blindly

on solo mission to not prelong it unecessary I had not more than 5 ever once, in public games it is from minimum 5 to 15 and more if lich will spawn more..and this minimum in public is way faster than in solo

I call Lich spawning additional thralls bulls@#t. He indeed spawns some (1-3) Thralls when he comes, but later Thralls are stop coming no matter how long Lich is present on the mission.

I've yet to find a vid proof of this superb "nostab" plan working.

[Ikserdok]

1 minute ago, Miyabi-sama said:

 

I call Lich spawning additional thralls bulls@#t. He indeed spawns some (1-3) Thralls when he comes, but later Thralls are stop coming no matter how long Lich is present on the mission.

I've yet to find a vid proof of this superb "nostab" plan working.

lich can spawn definitely more than 5 thralls, maybe up 10 I think, but he need grineer around to turn them into these thralls which is hard to do if there is someone in team not understanding this and killing everything in sigh, so lich have no chance to spawn additional thralls

[Ikserdok]

19 minutes ago, CuChulainnWD said:

Fellow Tenno we should be helping each other, not tearing at each others throats.  The reason we have this divide is on the heads of DE and their incompetence in executing what could be an excellent game mode. Right  now it has its flaws, whether DE decides to get off their asses and address any of these issues before Friday is anyone's guess. Holwing for Bans on fellow Tenno because of DE's incompetence is not the direction we should be taking either. We should be banding together and howling at DE to get this fixed and fixed right Sharpish, not two weeks from now.

All of that said, OBJECTIVELY given the state of our current mechanics in game, there is NO reason not to attack your Lich other than, we all agree, it is a cheap death to take when the Lich are supposed to be Lich, we can defeat them and they can come back stronger.  Remember Tenno, this is a Co-op game, and the Lich Spawns as the game mode works now, spawn sequentially. One person deciding NOT to engage their lich, leaves a majority out. I have done hundreds of missions hunting Requiems and 21 Lich's; it is very few people who want to hold out. When you rationaly explain to them the reasoning to engage, they all pretty much get it. Be polite. Be understanding. And to those not wishing to engage your Lich in a PUB/PUG remember if the majority want to, you ARE holding their game session hostage. Remember, it is a co-op game, that means when it comes time for your Final showdown, that R5 Lich is not going to be too much trouble when you have 3 other Tenno at your back when it is YOUR turn to engage your Lich.

Im not calling anyone to get banned, all I do I try to explain here to "blind" players an reason why many dont want to stab their lich

it os not always worth to stab him if you know stupid "rage" mechanic on liches

like I was trying to explain this but yet it seems noone get it or just noone read this

you are close to get revealed last mod yes? knowing order of themt o kill lich, so you are maybe 1-3 missions away to get last md revealed and ready to kill lich, unfortunately he will spawn in this time and you dont want to stab him because of main biggest reason - enrage wich will get wasted when you stab your lich and so you will get these murmus..then you are just ready to kill lich but damn, you cant, you cant kill your lich becasue it wont even show up on next 5-10 missions because it lost all his rage as you ahve stabbed him before and so ou need to farm more thralls only to fill its stupi rage meter, doesnt matted you are ready to kill lich, know ll mods and their order - for most castes you are stuck with lame low RNG to get spawned your lich ad so forced to farm more thralls

[CuChulainnWD]

3 minutes ago, Ikserdok said:

Im not calling anyone to get banned, all I do I try to explain here to "blind" players an reason why many dont want to stab their lich

it os not always worth to stab him if you know stupid "rage" mechanic on liches

like I was trying to explain this but yet it seems noone get it or just noone read this

you are close to get revealed last mod yes? knowing order of themt o kill lich, so you are maybe 1-3 missions away to get last md revealed and ready to kill lich, unfortunately he will spawn in this time and you dont want to stab him because of main biggest reason - enrage wich will get wasted when you stab your lich and so you will get these murmus..then you are just ready to kill lich but damn, you cant, you cant kill your lich becasue it wont even show up on next 5-10 missions because it lost all his rage as you ahve stabbed him before and so ou need to farm more thralls only to fill its stupi rage meter, doesnt matted you are ready to kill lich, know ll mods and their order - for most castes you are stuck with lame low RNG to get spawned your lich ad so forced to farm more thralls

We agree the mechanics are broken. That said I notice also that when a Lich does spawn in, most times it is near our start point, when we are more than 75% of the way through a mission. It has happened more than once, no thralls around either because they are already dead.

[GruntBlender]

5 hours ago, CuChulainnWD said:

Having been on a ton of Lich hunts myself, I can say that it is about 1 in 8 or 1 in 10 where a pug has one member not wishing to engage their Lich. To me that suggests a majority do. They understand the mechanics that it is a Lich hunt. If you the individual do not want to engage your Lich, how about you take the onus to go solo or find a similarly like minded group? You know Lich's will spawn, and mechanically one Lich being held up will prevent the others from spawning. That to me is hijacking game play for everyone else. That to me is a player being selfish when they could have taken matters into their hands and play the way they like solo or with a dedicated group to no Lich engagements. Majority rules mate.

Yeah, nah. Majority rules is a poor excuse for making things difficult for people.

 

6 hours ago, No1NParticular31 said:

OK this is a serious question: Why would you NOT want to attack the Lich? If you do not have all or even any of the mods figured out then that means you are still collecting murmurs and attacking it gives you basically a full mission's worth of murmurs in exchange for 1 revive. That speeds up the process of collecting murmurs immensely and either confirms or rules out at least 1 mod. I have gotten lucky once and had my attack on a Lich tell me my guess for the first slot was correct before I collected enough murmurs to know any of them yet. I am just not seeing any downside to doing it. If you know something I don't, please share.

Here's a possible scenario: Someone has a rank 2 lich and knows the first two mods. Now, it'll only take a few missions to figure out the last mod and guarantee the kill. Stabbing a random mod into the lich has only a 1/6 chance of being right and will reset the lich's rage, so it'll probably take another 4 or so missions to spawn it again. This means on average it's quicker to leave the lich alone until you find out the third mod.

In the beginning it's best to wait until you know one mod before stabbing the lich for the first time. Usually won't matter since you only need 30 murmurs for this, but on the off chance it spawns sooner, it's best to wait so you can stab it as soon as you know one mod. Same for the second mod you find out, it's best to wait so you have the highest chance of spawning the lich as soon as you find out the mod. So yeah, not stabbing the lich could be faster than stabbing it because you have a lot less downtime due to building up the rage meter between attempts. Oh, and higher level enemies and liches mean the missions take a bit longer too.

[Ikserdok]

10 minutes ago, GruntBlender said:

Here's a possible scenario: Someone has a rank 2 lich and knows the first two mods. Now, it'll only take a few missions to figure out the last mod and guarantee the kill. Stabbing a random mod into the lich has only a 1/6 chance of being right and will reset the lich's rage, so it'll probably take another 4 or so missions to spawn it again. This means on average it's quicker to leave the lich alone until you find out the third mod.

In the beginning it's best to wait until you know one mod before stabbing the lich for the first time. Usually won't matter since you only need 30 murmurs for this, but on the off chance it spawns sooner, it's best to wait so you can stab it as soon as you know one mod. Same for the second mod you find out, it's best to wait so you have the highest chance of spawning the lich as soon as you find out the mod. So yeah, not stabbing the lich could be faster than stabbing it because you have a lot less downtime due to building up the rage meter between attempts. Oh, and higher level enemies and liches mean the missions take a bit longer too.

this and this, this is what Im trying to explain to anyone I meet, on forums maybe I try to explain this not to clear as how bad is my english, but in game it even doesnt matter what, how you try to explain something, if somone start forcing you to something they dont care what you respond to them, they end forcing you even more and/or starting insulting you because they know better this system and they are already doing it in most efficient way because blindly it is easiest way to not look on any other possible way of dealing with lich in overall and yell at anyone else thinking different

[CuChulainnWD]

3 hours ago, GruntBlender said:

Yeah, nah. Majority rules is a poor excuse for making things difficult for people.

 

Here's a possible scenario: Someone has a rank 2 lich and knows the first two mods. Now, it'll only take a few missions to figure out the last mod and guarantee the kill. Stabbing a random mod into the lich has only a 1/6 chance of being right and will reset the lich's rage, so it'll probably take another 4 or so missions to spawn it again. This means on average it's quicker to leave the lich alone until you find out the third mod.

In the beginning it's best to wait until you know one mod before stabbing the lich for the first time. Usually won't matter since you only need 30 murmurs for this, but on the off chance it spawns sooner, it's best to wait so you can stab it as soon as you know one mod. Same for the second mod you find out, it's best to wait so you have the highest chance of spawning the lich as soon as you find out the mod. So yeah, not stabbing the lich could be faster than stabbing it because you have a lot less downtime due to building up the rage meter between attempts. Oh, and higher level enemies and liches mean the missions take a bit longer too.

Which can all be alleviated by the fact this is a co-op game.You talk about making things difficult for people, now there is your hypocrisy and your tu quequo in spades, what about the other 3 people in the team that are playing by the current mechanics, a Lich spawns after another has been dealt with?

When anyone faces their Lich they do not do so alone, which makes taking down that possible R5 lich all that much easier. We all agree the system is broken, but majority rules DO apply. When you have 3 other people wanting to test their parazon order and or wanting more murmurs, then you the individual in this case are holding the majority hostage. That begs the question, why not go solo if you do not want to face your lich. I take one for the team, and think of others when it comes to Lich killing, even if it means my own Lich needs to be killed at the expense of it spawning sooner later. The ONLY time I would not engage my Lich, is if I my last mod is revealed and my lich is the last to spawn. It is safe to say you can skip it then and go on to attack it after. I am not holding up anyone else's Lich.

Edited November 17, 2019 by CuChulainnWD

[Ikserdok]

4 minutes ago, CuChulainnWD said:

Which can all be alleviated by the fact this is a co-op game. When anyone faces their Lich the do not do so alone, which makes taking down that possible R5 lich all that much easier. We all agree the system is broken, but majority rules DO apply. When you have 3 other people wanting to test their parazon order and or wanting more murmurs, then you the individual in this case are holding the majority hostage. That begs the question, why not go solo if you do not want to face your lich. I take one for the team, and think of others when it comes to Lich killing, even if it means my own Lich needs to be killed at the expense of it spawning sooner later. The ONLY time I would not engage my Lich, is if I my last mod is revealed and my lich is the last to spawn. It is safe to say you can skip it then and go on to attack it after. I am not holding up anyone else's Lich.

what is funny...I almost never meet  anyone on missions saying he want to spawn his lich to finally kill him or check order of mods, yet everyone was telling they want just bonus 10 murmurs from this, so from myself I say 10 murmurs from lich is not that big deal in overall so I dont go on hand them but if someone wanted lich to finally kill it then sure, I would get rid of my lich for this as this is real reason now to help someone

but expecially as people start insulting etc because I how no willing to stab my not ready yet lich...I dont want to do it even more

also I had few times in team when literally on start an lich have spawned and owner of him wrote to leave it so people with mind or left this lich and went furher with mission or just left squad - just at the begining of mission, but there was ofc also snowlakes who just instantly started farcing owners to stab their lich and insulting them...so this doesnt look even fine from this side