Getting Hate for Not Attacking Nemesis

[CuChulainnWD]

2 minutes ago, Ikserdok said:

what is funny...I almost never meet  anyone on missions saying he want to spawn his lich to finally kill him or check order of mods, yet everyone was telling they want just bonus 10 murmurs from this, so from myself I say 10 murmurs from lich is not that big deal in overall so I dont go on hand them but if someone wanted lich to finally kill it then sure, I would get rid of my lich for this as this is real reason now to help someone

but expecially as people start insulting etc because I how no willing to stab my not ready yet lich...I dont want to do it even more

also I had few times in team when literally on start an lich have spawned and owner of him wrote to leave it so people with mind or left this lich and went furher with mission or just left squad - just at the begining of mission, but there was ofc also snowlakes who just instantly started farcing owners to stab their lich and insulting them...so this doesnt look even fine from this side

Mate, I have been on hundreds of missions, and in that time only one guy held out killing his lich leaving 3 of us waiting, until it despawned. Eventually the rest of ours did spawn. x10 guaranteed murmurs is better than the average 5 and if we are lucky 15, and when everyone takes care of their lich more thralls spawn.

Calling people snow flakes when you are trying to convince them to see your view point does not help your argument either. We should not be at each other's throats but rather have our pitch forks and torches out for DE to FIX THIS F*cking mess THEY created.

[GruntBlender]

7 minutes ago, CuChulainnWD said:

why not go solo if you do not want to face your lich

Becasue there's a LOT more thralls spawning in a group. Alternatively, why not go solo if you DO want to face your lich? No chance of anyone interfering then.

 

9 minutes ago, CuChulainnWD said:

now there is your hypocrisy and your tu quequo in spades

Yeah, I'm gonna put you on my ignore list now. Good chat.

 

11 minutes ago, Ikserdok said:

this and this, this is what Im trying to explain to anyone I meet, on forums maybe I try to explain this not to clear as how bad is my english, but in game it even doesnt matter what, how you try to explain something, if somone start forcing you to something they dont care what you respond to them, they end forcing you even more and/or starting insulting you because they know better this system and they are already doing it in most efficient way because blindly it is easiest way to not look on any other possible way of dealing with lich in overall and yell at anyone else thinking different

I might make a chart tomorrow to show various options, I'll let you know if I do.

 

3 minutes ago, Ikserdok said:

but expecially as people start insulting etc because I how no willing to stab my not ready yet lich...I dont want to do it even more

My favorite was when I was hosting a murmur farm through recruiting chat, and people got mad at me not stabbing my lich even though there was no chance of their's spawning anyway. For context, I did stab it to check the second mod, but it was correct and I didn't stab it the third time since I didn't know the last mod.

[CuChulainnWD]

3 minutes ago, GruntBlender said:

Becasue there's a LOT more thralls spawning in a group. Alternatively, why not go solo if you DO want to face your lich? No chance of anyone interfering then.

Because the majority of people in the pug are there to hunt their lich. Not a hard concept to grasp.

3 minutes ago, GruntBlender said:

 

Yeah, I'm gonna put you on my ignore list now. Good chat.

 

Aye Good plan mate. Your hypocrisy ranks.

 

Edited November 17, 2019 by CuChulainnWD

[Ogundiety]

As said earlier, this isn't a pleasant situation to be in for the players.

 

Personally, with 40(43? I lose track) liches under my belt, and I'm sure there are people with lots more, I tend to do everything up to the actual kills in groups, dropping to solo when I have a kill code (unless I'm with friends).  There are two situations where I won't stab my lich, though.

1) when I am going to kill/convert it.  This one seems blindingly obvious to me but seems to baffle a lot of other people.  When you are going to kill the lich, you are going to stop spawns completely for the mission, including the conversions (yes to the person upthread, liches will infinitely sit there and convert, as long as there are other npcs- so disruption, survival, etc, but not exterminate since that mission type is NPC-limited).  So if my lich spawns in, and I 100% have a kill code, I will tell my team stopping from killing it so they can feed off the thralls, since killing it would not allow any other liches to spawn, nor thralls, for the rest of the mission.  I dearly hope this bug is fixed sooner rather than later, but the thursday hotfix absolutely did not change it.

 

2)  If it is near the end of the mission (sub 30 seconds of survival, or similar), and I just got my 3rd code, so the next mission is a guarenteed kill for me.  This one is also pretty obvious.  I will do it sometimes anyway if it's near the start of the mission, but this is the case where it's directly harmful to do so to myself, so I may do it if I'm asked politely even in the last brief bit, but usually as long as you say (in party) that you just got your third code and don't want to waste the rage, people seem fairly relaxed about it (as they should be).

 

I can totally understand people who don't have a lot of gear/setups to take out liches not wanting to do it.  Unless I'm sitting on a kill code, it's honestly kind of a wash for me personally, so I am happy to help farm thralls (and all things being equal, unless I have an active code to test for ordering purposes, it's not really doing me any good one way or another), and a lich in a mission absolutely gives more thralls than not. 

 

People getting freaked out/bent out of shape about what is, usually, relatively neutral is the strange part, to me. Missions just aren't that long, generally, and unless you have all 3 of your codes, you're still getting murmur.   Stop flipping out about it, even 'very long' missions are usually under 7 minutes (since survival caps at 5 minutes, disruption doesn't give any thralls after the 4th node is completed/failed, the 5th wave happens, etc), queue up for the next one.   You almost certainly could use the murmur.

 

Personally I prefer to do these with at least one friend in the group, taking turns on who pilots (so I can avoid the likely scenario where my lich shows up and I have to stab it 100% blind, which is just not useful other than to get it to jump to another planet with possibly better mission types).  That way the person who is done with code 1 can pilot till they get their test, then a person testing codes 1 and 2 (for positional data if nothing else) can test, letting anyone sitting on 0 codes or 2 where they know the position but not the third code can just be around for thrall killing, as that's the most efficent way to do it with a geared group. 

 

I've seen/read/heard the arguments that you want your lich to show up nonstop every single mission, and the problem is that isn't actually more efficent, time-wise.  It's not dramatically worse, it's just slightly worse, and the whole thing isn't worth getting so worked up over.  

[Ikserdok]

11 minutes ago, CuChulainnWD said:

Mate, I have been on hundreds of missions, and in that time only one guy held out killing his lich leaving 3 of us waiting, until it despawned. Eventually the rest of ours did spawn. x10 guaranteed murmurs is better than the average 5 and if we are lucky 15, and when everyone takes care of their lich more thralls spawn.

Calling people snow flakes when you are trying to convince them to see your view point does not help your argument either. We should not be at each other's throats but rather have our pitch forks and torches out for DE to FIX THIS F*cking mess THEY created.

x10 guaranteed murmur if you lich will spawn which there it is not guaranteed even after longer waiting for this - so this is reason why I dont care getting off my lich because of this reason, I maybe will stab my lich and suicide on it and what? it was very common as for rest of the mission only 1 more lich have spawned if even, this is was not to rare to me to see how there is spwaning no any lich after 1st stabbed on mission  and no any lich at all

 

and I called snow flakes to those most ignorant people - there is just started mission and I dont want to kill lich - feel free to abort mission if you dont like it instead of insulting me or other players doing same

or also end of the mission - man, this mission is just ending or even this is time to extract, I have no point to stab with failure my lich so you will get an 1% chance to spawn your lich at that short time of end of this mission, Im not going to punish myslef because of this snowlake arrogance

btw I was not calling anyone replying to me here on forum, jsut giving an example from missions

[JHarlequin]

4 hours ago, GruntBlender said:

Here's a possible scenario: Someone has a rank 2 lich and knows the first two mods. Now, it'll only take a few missions to figure out the last mod and guarantee the kill. Stabbing a random mod into the lich has only a 1/6 chance of being right and will reset the lich's rage, so it'll probably take another 4 or so missions to spawn it again. This means on average it's quicker to leave the lich alone until you find out the third mod.

In the beginning it's best to wait until you know one mod before stabbing the lich for the first time. Usually won't matter since you only need 30 murmurs for this, but on the off chance it spawns sooner, it's best to wait so you can stab it as soon as you know one mod. Same for the second mod you find out, it's best to wait so you have the highest chance of spawning the lich as soon as you find out the mod. So yeah, not stabbing the lich could be faster than stabbing it because you have a lot less downtime due to building up the rage meter between attempts. Oh, and higher level enemies and liches mean the missions take a bit longer too.

 This is almost a reason.  I have never been close to experiencing this though.

 For me most of the time, when the lich first shows up, in the second or third influence mission I have done for the lich, they continuously show up every mission after that until they reach rank five.  This has happened to me for six of my lichs.  It's ridiculous.  In general, and probably the intended design is that you will see your lich first when you have maybe 2/3rds of the first murmur.

 When you say the lich is level 2 and you know two requiems, you have been avoiding killing your lich for a long time, or you are miraculously lucky and guessed two on the first time you killed it.  Players in this situation have probably been avoiding killing their lich already, so you can't start the situation with the lich is level 2 and you know two requiems, you have to start the story with the player has avoided killing their lich five times already and the one time they did kill it, they got the requiems they knew in the correct order.

 Also, as I said, for me the lich comes very frequently, especially in groups.  They are supposed to get more likely the more angry they are, but they arrive a lot.  Other people having different experiences is assured, but you aren't going to be too inconvenienced.  Add on that the lich experience is that once you have a lich, you are taking on a multi mission task and expect to have to go through those extra missions.  The intention is that they might not arrive and you have to deal with that.  The intention is not that you inconvenience other people by trying to cheese features of the game.

 The lichs are a long term goal and you should expect that once you kill a larvling, that when you see your lich, you should stab it even if you are going to have to deal with the challenge.  Play well with others and you will always have help.  Try to cheese the system and you will probably manage but most people aren't really going to accept your viewpoint.

[No1NParticular31]

14 hours ago, Aldain said:

the biggest issue I've heard from people are Toxin Tonkors being comically overpowered.

I guess I haven't encountered that one. Really though that seems like more of a reason to attack him to make him go away instead of letting him run roughshod over the squad the whole time. Something else I think have noticed, if the target players lets the Lich kill with regular  damage WITHOUT the player attempting a mercy, the Lich seems to go away and NOT level up. I would need to see this happen again to be sure, but pretty sure I saw that happen once.

The only Lich I ever had real issue with was one with Oberon's Hallowed Ground. This guy kept pulling into hallways and tunnels when people moved into view to attack he would lay that down and nearly insta kill everyone. trying to attack him.

[GruntBlender]

4 hours ago, JHarlequin said:

you have been avoiding killing your lich for a long time

Not really. Despite your experience, they don't show up all that often for me. Or can take 2-3 missions to find out the first mod, 2-3 more for the second. So 6 missions in you could know 2 mods and have stabbed the lich once or twice to test the order. With that speed, it makes no sense to reset their rage for a 1/7ish chance at randomly guessing a mod.

 

5 hours ago, JHarlequin said:

or you are miraculously lucky and guessed two on the first time you killed it

1/8 chance the first is right, 1/7 for the second. So 1/56 change to get the first two right and in order. Out of many thousands of liches being spawned and killed, many hundreds if not more will get this occurrence. Not all that miraculous, is it. 

 

5 hours ago, JHarlequin said:

you aren't going to be too inconvenienced

Running 5 extra missions is a fair bit of inconvenience. Conversely, unless you already know your lich's sequence and are ready to vanquish, someone preventing it from spawning is costing you between about 4 and 10 murmurs for a failed attempt, partly made up by the lich converting nearby enemies into thralls. And with no guarantee your lich will actually spawn, people get mad over nothing. You still get a bunch of murmurs for the mission. 

 

5 hours ago, JHarlequin said:

The intention is not that you inconvenience other people by trying to cheese features of the game

It's not cheesing, it's an intended mechanic. Why else would a lich convert thralls while enemies are around, or reset their rage? If the intent was to figure out the mods by stabbing, why have thralls and murmurs at all? No, it's the game mechanics at fault, not players choosing one of the intended paths. The system needs to be changed, it's needlessly divisive and creates animosity when there really should be none.

[GPrime96]

8 hours ago, No1NParticular31 said:

The only Lich I ever had real issue with was one with Oberon's Hallowed Ground. This guy kept pulling into hallways and tunnels when people moved into view to attack he would lay that down and nearly insta kill everyone. trying to attack him.

This one is the Toxin Lich.

[Biddion]

On 2019-11-17 at 4:57 PM, No1NParticular31 said:

OK this is a serious question: Why would you NOT want to attack the Lich? If you do not have all or even any of the mods figured out then that means you are still collecting murmurs and attacking it gives you basically a full mission's worth of murmurs in exchange for 1 revive. That speeds up the process of collecting murmurs immensely and either confirms or rules out at least 1 mod. I have gotten lucky once and had my attack on a Lich tell me my guess for the first slot was correct before I collected enough murmurs to know any of them yet. I am just not seeing any downside to doing it. If you know something I don't, please share.

I couldn't care less about the death, but I'd rather keep the level low for future missions. Also, when I started this thread, I did not know a failed lich kill equaled 10 murmurs. That said, 10 murmurs doesn't yet convince me it is worth the higher levels that follow. Also, it isn't that I can't take on higher levels; it is that I only play a few hours a week (and not every day) so I'd rather not slog through level 100+ enemies mission after mission.

On 2019-11-17 at 5:17 PM, CuChulainnWD said:

Having been on a ton of Lich hunts myself, I can say that it is about 1 in 8 or 1 in 10 where a pug has one member not wishing to engage their Lich. To me that suggests a majority do. They understand the mechanics that it is a Lich hunt. If you the individual do not want to engage your Lich, how about you take the onus to go solo or find a similarly like minded group? You know Lich's will spawn, and mechanically one Lich being held up will prevent the others from spawning. That to me is hijacking game play for everyone else. That to me is a player being selfish when they could have taken matters into their hands and play the way they like solo or with a dedicated group to no Lich engagements. Majority rules mate.

"Onus?" Someone has passed their GRE. I would play solo (and I do sometimes), but the murmurs come just too slowly. And I do play with a small group when my clan members are online with me. However, there are times when no one is logged into my clan.

The back and forth here only proves one of my points that the system was set up without thought of the tension it would create between players. That said, I believe most of you who have commented in this thread, if not all, have all missed my main point: Do players, for any reason, deserve to be verbally abused for playing the game how they want?

[Alpha_Tango]

2 hours ago, Biddion said:

The back and forth here only proves one of my points that the system was set up without thought of the tension it would create between players. That said, I believe most of you who have commented in this thread, if not all, have all missed my main point: Do players, for any reason, deserve to be verbally abused for playing the game how they want?

I guess you know the answer to your question already. 

Any form of harassment whether it be over chat or in the forums are reportable. There is no need to reply at all after, maybe, telling them your actions behind not dealing with a Lich.

I got twenty two Liches under my belt and only once I was called a noob for not stabbing my Lich. My reason for that is my lone rule - not stabbing my Lich unless I know "at least" a parazon mod so It will be my first clue with the sequence.  I can stick by that rule with the succeeding ones but I really don't care much because I can deal with any rank 5 Lich knowing their immunities, resistances and weakness beforehand.

Although there are logical points behind stabbing your Lich, IMHO those are not hard and fast rules to enforce. DE also clearly allowed low level players (the lowest I saw was MR 12) access to Liches and rank 5 Liches ofc is a no no for them. Doing them solo might be a noble solution. I did all of mine in pubs because all the advantages of murmur farming lie with a squad beside the fact that I enjoy killing other players Liches too.

I am dumbfounded with people blowing things out of proportion when there are clearly no shortage of nodes to spawn Liches with. I just ask if we have to ignore/deal with the Lich and just do the next thing. Playing World of Tanks gave me enough thick skin seeing how comparably tamed angry WF are or do we need to resort to a kicking function that can also lead to another form of griefing ? Either way, communication and some understanding are easy solutions, if not, just ignore and report the abuse for harassment.

[SECURATYYY]

Just like to throw out that stabbing your lich and failing does indeed let you know if that is the right mod or not. So you get some information regardless.

[Aldain]

15 hours ago, Biddion said:

Do players, for any reason, deserve to be verbally abused for playing the game how they want?

Nobody does, which is why I advocate DE remove the things that are causing the "Stab vs Run" wars, those being the automatic death and the level up (and you might be able to get me to drop the level up if the auto death still goes).

Nobody in the 4 players deserves this trouble, and none of the players should be attacking each other over this.

[(PSN)Aneres_Omega]

Holy damn, so much strife because of this stupidly done lich system.

Makes me glad DE gave me a form of opt-out by letting me to allow the thing to die on it's own.

So at least I wont have to worry about this headache.

Though I feel sorry for those whom do have to put up with this headache.

[Aldain]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Aneres_Omega said:

Though I feel sorry for those whom do have to put up with this headache.

That is the saddest part, well that and how people are eating each other over how they think PuGs should deal with them.

Hopefully DE does...something, at this point I'd take almost anything that would stop the inane arguments.

Though I still hold that the auto-death is one of the bigger reasons why people don't want to stab their Lichs.

[(PSN)Aneres_Omega]

Lets just face it this system was poorly implemented and clearly none properly play testing the system.

I just wish the community wouldn't tear itself apart over a broken system.

[GruntBlender]

12 hours ago, Aldain said:

Hopefully DE does...something

Careful what you wish. It looks like they stealth nerfed murmur farming from 30/30/70 as promised to 40/65/90. I guess randomly stabbing the lich is now becoming faster than farming murmurs.

[DesertEagle1280]

4 hours ago, GruntBlender said:

Careful what you wish. It looks like they stealth nerfed murmur farming from 30/30/70 as promised to 40/65/90. I guess randomly stabbing the lich is now becoming faster than farming murmurs.

Are you sure? on the one hand that would make sense, it does feel like it's taking longer especially the 3rd word, compred to just after the 30/30/70 patch, but on the other hand that would be way more total than the originial 50/50/50 that people were complaining about. 

[EinheriarJudith]

On 2019-11-17 at 6:27 PM, No1NParticular31 said:

The only Lich I ever had real issue with was one with Oberon's Hallowed Ground. This guy kept pulling into hallways and tunnels when people moved into view to attack he would lay that down and nearly insta kill everyone. trying to attack him.

i chalk this up to people who arent ready for high lvl play. everytime i spawn a toxin lich, i use oberon. people who spawn toxin lichs should either solo or take a frame that they can remove status effects from themselves and players. its been a long problem with warframe. some people just don't care about others in a coop game.

Edited November 21, 2019 by EinheriarJudith