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tzadquiel

any other stealth nerfs/buffs you've discovered after updates?

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As per title, I have noticed a few changes since the myriad of updates and hotfixes lately and believe, that keeping transparency will help the player base in making the right decisions re: equipment and loadout. 

With not enough breakdown info from DE this could also help to reduce the confirmation bias among us, hopefully. Confirmations/Clarifications/Corrections welcome.

I will start with the most obvious one, since some people still don't know this has taken place:

 

Zenistar - charged disc attack with no combo count now lasts 8s, duration builds up with combo counter to a max of 48s [confirmed]

Fluctus - when equipped in atmosphere, the punch through is significantly reduced (was lower before, but seems to be decreased now greatly)

 

 

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Stealth nerf is such a horrible term... Could we please stop using it? Stealth nerf would mean that it was intended all along. But what if it was a bug, or something unintended?
Yeah, just jump to conclusion assuming that everything in the world is evil.

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8 минут назад, tzadquiel сказал:

As per title, I have noticed a few changes since the myriad of updates and hotfixes lately and believe, that keeping transparency will help the player base in making the right decisions re: equipment and loadout. 

With not enough breakdown info from DE this could also help to reduce the confirmation bias among us, hopefully. Confirmations/Clarifications/Corrections welcome.

I will start with the most obvious one, since some people still don't know this has taken place:

 

Zenistar - charged disc attack with no combo count now lasts 8s, duration builds up with combo counter to a max of 48s [confirmed]

Fluctus - when equipped in atmosphere, the punch through is significantly reduced (was lower before, but seems to be decreased now greatly)

 

 

Welp, Zenistar now is a junk. Mastery fodder.

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8 minutes ago, -MElHiOR- said:

Welp, Zenistar now is a junk. Mastery fodder.

DE: *says in Devstream 132 that they're 'ripping the band-aid off' in terms of OP strategies and player power'*

Zenistar: *is used in many, many automatic farms and set&forget strategies and is basically only valued for how it lets you automate gameplay, something DE has said and demonstrated they're opposed to*

DE: *finally takes action and nerfs it*

Playerbase:

Image result for surprised eggman

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11 minutes ago, -MElHiOR- said:

Welp, Zenistar now is a junk. Mastery fodder.

"now" Ok, warframe expert.

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37 minutes ago, tzadquiel said:

Zenistar - charged disc attack with no combo count now lasts 8s, duration builds up with combo counter to a max of 48s [confirmed]

It was in patch notes so not exactly stealth. Technically it lasts 10s, but there is a delay when disc starts firing. The duration is kinda easily fixable by equipping Corrupt Charge.

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DE cant stop players strategies (rip off the bandaid) they can only change stuff up so we use other bandaid.  they have tried many a times this being the latest. there isn't any video game in existence that haven't been cheesed or broken by the players that ticks off the devs, ever. this one isn't any different. and semi decent group of players dedicated enough can easily turn this game upside down with the many ways you can apply band aids.

25 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

DE: *says in Devstream 132 that they're 'ripping the band-aid off' in terms of OP strategies and player power'*

I laugh at this,  they should just concentrate on making their game more attractive= more players would actually invest in their product.

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Has anyone noticed that doing Stealth Finishers on an emeny now makes other unalerted foes 5-10 meters away turn to where the finisher is being done?

It has been happening on Consoles for a while but it has gotten worse as of lately (past few days after an update). I have not tried it on invisible frames as if this happens on frames with no invisible ability, does this mean that DE is saying they should not do Stealth and just blast everything?

Also, being spotted when I don't even have them showing up on radar is really ticking me off in tilesets. I can get open world....but you saw my Frame on the other side of the twin fans on Earth when I was getting that one treasure body? When did you get those Jeeper Creeper eyes in your clone mixture?

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28 minutes ago, ranks21 said:

there isn't any video game in existence that haven't been cheesed or broken by the players that ticks off the devs, ever. this one isn't any different. and semi decent group of players dedicated enough can easily turn this game upside down with the many ways you can apply band aids.

The difference is that, with only a few exceptions, DE lets those players keep playing and chooses to fix the exploit instead...

The last couple of times I saw a dedicated group of players dedicate themselves to such a path here DE, iirc, perma-banned them.

SE perma bans for such behavior and reports the number of bans they assign regularly.

Blizz either still does or definitely used to.

I'd love for DE to stop breaking things to inconvenience exploiters...I'd also love it if players chose not to be so sketchy that they get it banned in the first place. 

If they adopt your stance what we would see is a ton more perma-bans instead imo...I'd actually be ok with that though.

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The Akarius no longer procs an explosion on every instance of Punch Through, in fact, it seems to not be able to Punch Through at all anymore. Can't 100% confirm this but i'm pretty sure, tested it in the Simulacrum.

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1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

DE: *says in Devstream 132 that they're 'ripping the band-aid off' in terms of OP strategies and player power'*

Zenistar: *is used in many, many automatic farms and set&forget strategies and is basically only valued for how it lets you automate gameplay, something DE has said and demonstrated they're opposed to*

DE: *finally takes action and nerfs it*

Playerbase:

Image result for surprised eggman

I think they went the wrong way about it. For active playstyle, they should've went with disk being interactive with your combo meter. Draining combo meter over time for disk being out while you try to keep it up with melee attacks or just let it run out of combo meter. Only problem I see with this idea is Guardian Derision interaction but that can be worked out or limited for the weapon. 

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I've noticed my Glaive Prime is suddenly doing far less damage. Glaives were mentioned in the patch notes, but the mention doesn't explain (to me, at least) why the explosion / resulting bleed is so much weaker.

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1 hour ago, Frenotx said:

I've noticed my Glaive Prime is suddenly doing far less damage. Glaives were mentioned in the patch notes, but the mention doesn't explain (to me, at least) why the explosion / resulting bleed is so much weaker.

i have also had issues causing the Orvius to proc its suspended status on charged throw, it might be due to the fact that charging a melee is increasingly hard to trigger now

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3 hours ago, ranks21 said:

DE cant stop players strategies (rip off the bandaid)

They absolutely can. They just did with the nerf to AFK Zenistar. 

I think you mean that the devs can't stop players from strategizing, finding tricks and exploits. That is true, and it'd be pretty silly of any game creator to assume they could do so. What they can do is observe how players create strategies and either remove or allow certain ones based on how they want their game to run. In the case of the Zenistar, the strat was removed because DE doesn't want their action game to be AFK-playable. Other strats, like CO-priming (high-Status ranged weapon proccing for a crit CO melee's extra damage) likely aren't going anywhere because it's a benfit borne of effort and action, which is how the action game ought to run.

If you're trying to argue that exploits should never be removed from a game because players are just going to find new ones, then... oof...

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i see this thread has taken a turn to talk mainly about zenistar, but whatever:

Zenistar is not a mainly afk weapon. ofc, it can be treated as such - but for a non-meta player, who prefers to play solo, having another exit/spawn point covered is a major survivability factor. Furthermore, I don't like to melee. I see warframe as a space soldier combat game, and my fashion reflects that. my main used melee weapons are Orvius (bc projectile) and Zenistar, also because as nidus main I got melee in my 1. 

so for players like me, this nerf is not the matter of 'rebalancing the game', but a pure penalty. You either need a combo count riven for Zenistar now, or another mod altogether. but I accepted what happened, I am a non-meta so other major nerfs (MS< CO etc.) dont matter to me that much. 

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4 hours ago, ranks21 said:

I laugh at this,  they should just concentrate on making their game more attractive= more players would actually invest in their product.

One attractive element is action. People look at the space ninja game and are like 'cool action? I'm in'.

Sitting around whilst a ring of fire does the work for you, regardless of if it is your ring of fire (since co-op) or not, does not look attractive to new players.

3 hours ago, zoffmode said:

I think they went the wrong way about it. For active playstyle, they should've went with disk being interactive with your combo meter. Draining combo meter over time for disk being out while you try to keep it up with melee attacks or just let it run out of combo meter. Only problem I see with this idea is Guardian Derision interaction but that can be worked out or limited for the weapon. 

That is also a possible solution, but there is still the above issue that it still encourages one person doing all the work.

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8 hours ago, SenorClipClop said:

DE doesn't want their action game to be AFK-playable

well if that is what they are trying to accomplish then they wouldn't have warframe the game as it is, because their very product ( frames) is the nirvana of afk playstyle. and now with augments like duality and umbra it's even easier<< counter productive in the logical grand scheme don't ya think. and that's just 2 examples of the many things that they (DE) does promote but get butthurt when the whiners starts their chants and then they fold and side with them.

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8 hours ago, SenorClipClop said:

 

If you're trying to argue that exploits should never be removed from a game because players are just going to find new ones

this has been turned already and the newest exploit of melee is the amalgam setup that is the new meta in case you haven't noticed. zenistar's disc wasn't even an exploit it was how the weapon is and it is the more practical of the dual feature of that weapon even with the disc working with the combo meter now. the weapon itself is pure trash to a melee player even moreso in m 3.0 because all heavy weapons suffer the same sickness which is speed, zenistar without a speed mod is a guaranteed death, before and after the melee update, theyre all slow as snail in a fast paced game.

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If they nerfed zenistar more then it really is the definition of beating a dead horse, because once they tied disc to combo counter it was dead.  Nobody runs zenistar to swing it around.  Only reason I might justify swinging it around is if the disposition of rivens for it was 1.5 and even then I'd still likely prefer a rivenless galatine or gram.  

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54 minutes ago, (XB1)COA Altair said:

If they nerfed zenistar more then it really is the definition of beating a dead horse, because once they tied disc to combo counter it was dead.  Nobody runs zenistar to swing it around.  Only reason I might justify swinging it around is if the disposition of rivens for it was 1.5 and even then I'd still likely prefer a rivenless galatine or gram.  

I finished a 20 minute farming session just using the zenistar disc. It was fun to watch VinnyStania while pressing a button every 48 seconds, but I kinda get why DE nerfed it.

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3 minutes ago, (NSW)Sk0rp1on said:

I finished a 20 minute farming session just using the zenistar disc. It was fun to watch VinnyStania while pressing a button every 48 seconds, but I kinda get why DE nerfed it.

You're on switch, we don't have nerfed zenistar disc yet on console.  Still have that beautiful 45 second flat duration that can't be changed.  Come next monday or tuesday though we can kiss the weapon goodbye.  

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15 minutes ago, (XB1)COA Altair said:

You're on switch, we don't have nerfed zenistar disc yet on console.  Still have that beautiful 45 second flat duration that can't be changed.  Come next monday or tuesday though we can kiss the weapon goodbye.  

I’m aware. I just got it yesterday and wanted to see what was possible before the nerf. It’s definitely cool, but it encourages AFKing so I get why they nerfed it.

After the change I could see using the disc to inflict status and then cleaning up using Condition Overloa...oh right 😔

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