It only took 2 weeks for people to lose interest in Kuva Lich gameplay

[Anarbitrio]

19 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

The longer your lich is on the map it spawns those  10 thralls so either way you'd get them and mind you you can get them without raising his level 

Yeah. But you stab him and get +10 murmurs on top of the 10 thralls. That lets my Lich spawn for more Thralls and +10 murmurs. That lets someone else's Lich spawn and so on.

The act of stabbing alone gets you as many murmurs as an exterminate mission would grant.

On top of that, you're getting a rune confirmed or excluded from the combination.

Stabbing is, by far, the most efficient way for the whole group.

Math is math.

Edited November 19, 2019 by Anarbitrio

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

1 minute ago, Anarbitrio said:

Yeah. But you stab him and get +10 murmurs on top of the 10 thralls. That lets my Lich spawn for more Thralls and +10 murmurs. That lets someone else's Lich spawn and so on.

On top of that, you're getting a rune confirmed or excluded from the combination.

Stabbing is, by far, the most efficient way for the whole group.

 

But not for a player who dosent want a Harder lich which is also a very important thing. I'm not saying the system is great for both sides. But ultimately if you're trying to farm the most effective way to do so is form a group. Will always be. You can't control or make someone Stab said lich in a mission if they don't want to

[Ikserdok]

3 minutes ago, Anarbitrio said:

Yeah. But you stab him and get +10 murmurs on top of the 10 thralls. That lets my Lich spawn for more Thralls and +10 murmurs. That lets someone else's Lich spawn and so on.

On top of that, you're getting a rune confirmed or excluded from the combination.

Stabbing is, by far, the most efficient way for the whole group.

Math is math.

math is math but not everyone is RNG is same RNG

most efficient for whole group but this called group was made by people looking for this to be premade with knowing what everyone want ot by public random matching and not knowing what is willing to do single player here?

as I was writing before..even +10 murmurs for stabbing lich on top of thralls is not worth for many if they or dont know yet any new mod to get its order or already got order of knowed mods as RNG is not on their hand with blindly guessing new not known yet mod

[Anarbitrio]

Just now, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

But not for a player who dosent want a Harder lich which is also a very important thing. I'm not saying the system is great for both sides. But ultimately if you're trying to farm the most effective way to do so is form a group. Will always be. You can't control or make someone Stab said lich in a mission if they don't want to

The fact that you generated an enemy that you can't handle is a completely different matter. The fact that, even with people willing to kill it for you, you still won't do it, is borderline maniacal.

But that's beyond my point.

You and a few others are arguing about efficiency. Efficiency is what you gain compared to time invested.

Stabbing is efficient. No way around that.

[Anarbitrio]

6 minutes ago, Ikserdok said:

math is math but not everyone is RNG is same RNG

most efficient for whole group but this called group was made by people looking for this to be premade with knowing what everyone want ot by public random matching and not knowing what is willing to do single player here?

as I was writing before..even +10 murmurs for stabbing lich on top of thralls is not worth for many if they or dont know yet any new mod to get its order or already got order of knowed mods as RNG is not on their hand with blindly guessing new not known yet mod

That makes no sense. You want the combination. You get the combination with murmurs. You get up to 4 times more if you allow up to 3 additional Liches to spawn and convert, including your own +10 from attempting to stab.

You can tell me you're scared of your Lich. Fine.

You can tell me you don't care about preventing people from spawning their own Lich and accessing game content. Fine.

You can tell me you feel sad when you die. Fine.

But you can't tell me that leaving the guy alive is efficient under any fathomable circumstances. It more that quadruples the potential number of missions you'll have to complete.

Edited November 19, 2019 by Anarbitrio

[Ikserdok]

15 minutes ago, Anarbitrio said:

That makes no sense. You want the combination. You get the combination with murmurs. You get up to 4 times more if you allow up to 3 additional Liches to spawn and convert, including your own +10 from attempting to stab.

You can tell me you're scared of your Lich. Fine.

You can tell me you don't care about preventing people from spawning their own Lich and accessing game content. Fine.

You can tell me you feel sad when you die. Fine.

But you can't tell me that leaving the guy alive is efficient under any fathomable circumstances. It more that quadruples the potential number of missions you'll have to complete.

rage meter of lich, have you noticed it? this is main biggest reason

I can blindly stab lich every time it spawn, if I do he wont spawn very often as every time his rage meter will reset then, maybe I will get earlier discovered all 3 mods with order but for what reason if after all my lich wont have rage to spawn very fast? I will go and waste many missions for literally nothing but farming again thralls just for lich rage whiel already knowing every mod with order...nothing more stupid and dissapointing than wasting your time on missions for something which should be already able to be done if you are ready for this instead of again be on RNGsus will

but instead I prefer to varely touch my lich, unfortunately but because of his keeped rage he will be spawning much often but atleas I will be sure I will get him very fast if I will need him already to guess order of mod for example or ready to kill, maybe in farm of murmur it will take a bit longer without stabbing him every time but at the end in overall I will get kill/convert at similiar time of doing it while stabbing every time or even maybe faster because main reson in -

enrage of lich, I will get it high for most time so when I want to stab/kill him I have sure he will spawn in next 1-2 missions when I want it, especially if I go on solo then I have even guaranteed spawn of my lich ready to kill while without enrage Im on wasting time for more nonsense of doing these missions only to get summoned this stupid lich which wont spawn to me to early without rage - something which shouldn't even have place here but it is - flawed design of this system

[Softballbryan]

1 hour ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

You offering the term or solution of ridicule makes you no better then the one I hogging the fountain. You can't control of force a random person you don't know to do something they done want to do 

I disagree. It’s about acting correctly in public. There are rules on how to act. Learn the rules or face the consequences. Simply act decent and try to be kind... 

[Fire2box]

17 hours ago, Loza03 said:

I meant in respect to adding rewards for attempting a lich. They say as much in the reddit thread.

You get 10 thralls worth for trying each time. Rewards been added already. 

[Anarbitrio]

13 minutes ago, Softballbryan said:

I disagree. It’s about acting correctly in public. There are rules on how to act. Learn the rules or face the consequences. Simply act decent and try to be kind... 

Cooperation should be the norm. I agree.

With every game in every medium (sports, board games, card games, video games), when in doubt about the "etiquette", you look at design intent. 

Yes, you were intended to fight your Lich and help others/be helped in the process.

No, you were not intended to deny other people's access to their own Liches during public play, and you were not intended to bring your radiation spamming nemesis on top of the defense objectives and just leave him there.

So, you're either playing as intended, or you're sabotaging your teammates. 

Doesn't matter that your big bad levels up, the next random dude in your team will happily kill it for you. Just press X. Nobody will dance on your corpse in mockery.

Edited November 19, 2019 by Anarbitrio

[Softballbryan]

I’m taking the new missions slowly as I think it needs more adjustments. I’ve killed three so far but don’t feel a strong desire to push hard for them atm...  so maybe that’s one reason they are a bit light on pubs right now. 

[Softballbryan]

I know the new melee has me reworking many of my builds. That’s definitely part of the reason too. 

[tyreens]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb MonsterOfMyOwn:

This game is free to play and has pc version (which has less constraints for patches than console), so releasing free new content on pc first and using it as a wide scale beta is ok.

I mean... i used to play AAA games which paid dlc were even worse upon release... after a beta on a test server.

Ok again. Free to play is only a different business model from pay-to-play but in the end the community still pays the bills. So the players can demand the same level of quality and professionality from such a large studio as from an aaa title. F2p is not an excuse for such behavior.

Edited November 19, 2019 by tyreens

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

32 minutes ago, Softballbryan said:

I disagree. It’s about acting correctly in public. There are rules on how to act. Learn the rules or face the consequences. Simply act decent and try to be kind... 

 there are rules to act and a courtesy to things true. But you can't expect a random person to listen nor care for you in any situation. "Facing the cosiqunces" or acting negative towards that person dosent make you anybetter was well

[Loza03]

29 minutes ago, Fire2box said:

You get 10 thralls worth for trying each time. Rewards been added already. 

You don't get Kuva from Thralls, so getting 5,000 per attempt would be infinite thralls worth.

This thread is more recent than the Murmurs thing. It was posted about four days ago.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

23 minutes ago, Anarbitrio said:

Cooperation should be the norm. I agree.

With every game in every medium (sports, board games, card games, video games), when in doubt about the "etiquette", you look at design intent. 

Yes, you were intended to fight your Lich and help others/be helped in the process.

No, you were not intended to deny other people's access to their own Liches during public play, and you were not intended to bring your radiation spamming nemesis on top of the defense objectives and just leave him there.

So, you're either playing as intended, or you're sabotaging your teammates. 

Doesn't matter that your big bad levels up, the next random dude in your team will happily kill it for you. Just press X. Nobody will dance on your corpse in mockery.

With fighting your lich being optional and upon spawn it's not manditory to kill or engage with him there is no definition of playing as intended with this feature. Got my first lich came in a lobby and a kid wouldn't kill his because he didn't want to. Nobody cared. We finished the mission and moved on with our lives because we can always keep farmibg

[Ikserdok]

19 minutes ago, Anarbitrio said:

No, you were not intended to deny other people's access to their own Liches during public play, and you were not intended to bring your radiation spamming nemesis on top of the defense objectives and just leave him there.

unfortunately but this lich spawn doesnt depend of willings their owners

idk if you know it or not yet...but kuva lich dont as you when to spawn, Im sure people not wanting to stab their liches wont even summon them on missions at all when they dont want to stab them and unfortunately but lich dont ask them for this, he just spawn and thats all

so why again not only blaming but also pointing this blame even more under these players which have hands tied bu this system and no any control of it? by this flaw in system

this is not their fault thay have l;iterally not control over their lich spawn, as I wrote Im sure players not willing to stab their lich yet wont summon even single time their lich just to "sabotage" mission or other liches

[CedarDpg]

They could also add a mechanism that will reduce the amount of unwanted lich spawns. Just make it so that if you don't interact with your lich, then the lich won't spawn again for the next say 50 or 100 missions. (Also make it so that if the extraction timer has been triggered in non-endless missions that no more liches can spawn and if there is a lich spawned it will not count towards the cooldown timer.) That will basically move the next spawn of the lich down the line for a few days or so. With enough people having this cooldown timer, there'll be a lot more opportunity for those who want to kill their liches to have them spawn.

[-DG-ShadowPrime]

2 hours ago, Fl_3 said:

I'm looking at this like this.

DE is being quiet because they're working hard on fixing everything that people see as wrong with The Old Blood.

At least, I hope that's the reason they're being so quiet.

This "Nemesis" thing isn't working though. I've read in another thread that some guy is currently on his 50th Lich. 50, that's what 2 a day minimum? Ok, it look me about 4 hours total play to grind my 3rd, simply because I already had all the mods I need to kill it, but 50? Isn't this supposed to be long term content? Something that's going to keep us playing and playing for months? some kind of Arch opponent that's going to laugh at us and throw our power back in our faces? 50 really? Is the Kuva Lich system really that weak 50? With all the RNG around relics and mods?

Damn DE, I hope your silence is going to end with something worth the wait.

That my friend is the definition of a no lifer. It's completely common in games. You'll see people doing raids that require 6 people with 2, doing content that's supposed to take a grind in less time that it's supposed to etc. 

I don't think you should say whatever "X" isn't working because of an exception. The real question is how long do you think it would take you to get to your 50th lich. 

[Anarbitrio]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

With fighting your lich being optional and upon spawn it's not manditory to kill or engage with him there is no definition of playing as intended with this feature. Got my first lich came in a lobby and a kid wouldn't kill his because he didn't want to. Nobody cared. We finished the mission and moved on with our lives because we can always keep farmibg

The designers Intended for you to face your Lich. 

The designers did not intend for you to be able to deny other players to spawn their Liches.

Yeah, there is a "playing as intended way". You can still do what you want (unfortunately), but there was a clear intent design that defines the etiquette.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

Just now, ShadowExodus said:

That my friend is the definition of a no lifer. It's completely common in games. You'll see people doing raids that require 6 people with 2, doing content that's supposed to take a grind in less time that it's supposed to etc. 

I don't think you should say whatever "X" isn't working because of an exception. The real question is how long do you think it would take you to get to your 50th lich. 

You can't dictate how someone plays and how fast they complete content especially if it's not directly said " it should take you this long to complete" you sound very very disconnected trying to place a label on someone playing how they want to

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

1 minute ago, Anarbitrio said:

The designers Intended for you to face your Lich. 

The designers did not intend for you to be able to deny other players to spawn their Liches.

Yeah, there is a "playing as intended way". You can still do what you want (unfortunately), but there was a clear intent design that defines the etiquette.

If it was intended to for to fight your lich upon spawn extraction would be disabled or something would require to face him in every  situation upon spawn. And can you please provide me where a Dev Said killing yourself if you don't have the required mods for said lich upon spawn every time they spawn was intended? I get it you're frustrated but don't take your angst out on the players for using the system blame DE for making the faulty system

[(NSW)FlameDivinity]

I knew this update was going to be a disaster. In glad I uninstalled this game to regain some space in my system (console). I will reinstall and try melee 3.0 and the Guass buffs I've been waiting TWO MOTHER#*!%ING GODDAMN MONHS FOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HONESTLY THIS IS #*!%ING ABSURD. WHAT! THE! #*!%!?

*Deep Breath* that's absurd though. Honestly two months for something that could've been done in a hotfix. DE has dropped off badly the latter half of this year. Anyway I'll be uninstalling again once I play with them for a bit and get the rewards for the update. I'm sure I'll reinstall next year when things are stable again, but for now Pokemon Sword and Shield will have my full attention, with a little Skyrim and BotW mixed in here and there. Maybe some Smash Bros, but it's online is complete ass so probably not.

[Anarbitrio]

23 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

If it was intended to for to fight your lich upon spawn extraction would be disabled or something would require to face him in every  situation upon spawn. And can you please provide me where a Dev Said killing yourself if you don't have the required mods for said lich upon spawn every time they spawn was intended? I get it you're frustrated but don't take your angst out on the players for using the system blame DE for making the faulty system

[De]Steve explained the whole Lich process and the way it was intended to be explored at the exact time the patch was being released. He entertained the community with insight, his post-apocalyptic mouse, and his Halloween attire. Thanks [De]Steve.

You have the option of keeping your shards and dancing in a Tridolon Capture, preventing the rest from spawning the Eidolon. It's not intended, you can still do it, it's not "disabled" as you suggest. You can blame it on a "faulty" system if you wish.

You can queue up for T5 bounties and spend the whole time fishing. It's not intended, you can still do it, it's not "disabled" as you suggest. You can blame it on a "faulty" system if you wish.

You can queue up for sorties equipped with a hobbled key and spend the time taking scans of corpus cameras. It's not intended, you can still do it, it's not "disabled" as you suggest. You can blame it on a "faulty" system if you wish.

You have the option of letting your Lich chill on the defense point all game and prevent everyone else from spawning theirs for an indefinite amount of time. It's not intended, you can still do it, it's not "disabled" as you suggest. You can blame it on a "faulty" system if you wish.

You can play soccer with your friends, pick up the ball and tuck it under your shirt, then tell your friends to wait till the game is over and play with someone else. Then proceed to tell them that, if they don't want to play with people who hog the ball, to play soccer "solo" and avoid the risk. 

Doing something because "you can" or because it's not "disabled" is the bane of cooperative games.

Edited November 19, 2019 by Anarbitrio

[Ikserdok]

so if dev really intended you to interract to your lich and die to this of not being ready to kill it...it only shows how badle they implemented this as it look many many players want, try to avaid as much as they can this mechanic

it just confirms even better this is their fault of design of this content, not just players wanting to play this as there is this option to not stab lich so it is just permission to play it different non intended that much way for this showing even better how in overall this system is failure as how much it upset that many players here

 

so once again as it was wrote here not only once and for sure will be written even more time...dont blame players who just want to play this game as they want as it is possible, but blame devs which released so flawed system causing so much annoyance, rage, dissapointment on that big part of players community

[IIDMOII]

Poor concept. Poor implementation. Zero testing.

This is what happens when you release a broken and untested update.

We are going into week 3 already and there's still a week's worth of hotfixes to sift through.

Who knows what's intended and what isn't at this point.

A lot of the issues surrounding this update could have easily been foreseen. When you shoehorn single player content into a coop game, bad things will happen. 

It's obvious they didn't test this beyond their own internal, like-minded squads. Very little, if any, thought was put into how this would work in a public coop environment. The first week of hotfixes is evident of that.

Edited November 19, 2019 by IIDMOII