It only took 2 weeks for people to lose interest in Kuva Lich gameplay

[Ikserdok]

Just now, Brey223 said:

It’s not silence, it’s refusing to indulge in your heated campaign. You say the deaths are pointless I say they’re fine. If you wanted to get rid of the death the. How about your lich passively gets stronger the more you neglect it. Doesn’t kill you but if you ignore it/don’t try and stab it you’re punished even harsher by your lich going up by two levels with more stuff stolen. 

it wouldnt be any problem if lich would get stronger passively if we could get also order of mods in reasonable way than only guessing till we stop suiciding on it

doesnt matter gow punishable death from him would be as we wont die single time as we wont interract with him not ready just to die, we will be able to finally defeat lich without single unnecessary pointless death even if he would lvl to max in this time

[Brey223]

2 minutes ago, Ikserdok said:

and while @Aldain is answering, trying to answer on every your question with good argument you still refuse to answer for single question from him 🤔

I did answer, you and him don’t seem to grasp the answer. You die to your lich you get 10 thralls worth of murmur + let’s say 10 thralls. You got 20 thralls worth of murmur. You’re now 20 thralls closer to discovering your liches weakness. That’s the answer and I’m not sure what it is that both of you don’t get.

[Brey223]

2 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Guess who doesn't care about losing resources or the level increasing for me personally?

THIS GUY.

I just want the pointless death gone so the entire stabber vs runner arguments can stop. Nothing else.

Sure you say it’s meaningless I see it as an ok mechanic. I don’t care about “losing” recourses as you get them back after killing/converting your lich. If you try to stab your lich and you fail is it just gonna bounce with its tail between its legs? Offer you no consequence to your actions? 

[Aldain]

Me: What is the difference if a player lives or dies as long as they get 10 murmers from the stab?

1 minute ago, Brey223 said:

You die to your lich you get 10 thralls worth of murmur + let’s say 10 thralls.

That's not an answer, that isn't addressing my question at all. What is the DIFFERENCE between the two, if DE suddenly changed it what would be the difference?

[Blade_Wolf_16]

Are people serioulsy blaming DE by saying they "need to fix this broken system" while the problem was clearly stated (by the OP even) as the choice of individual players to force their teammates in public groups to bare the presence of a Lich that they cannot kill and so just to avoid dying in a game with 4 to 6 Revives per game?

Sure, DE could find a solution to this, but nothing is "broken". The problem isn't the game itself, it's what individuals do in the game that's problematic to other individuals. 

[Aldain]

Just now, Brey223 said:

Offer you no consequence to your actions?

Why should a pointless death be the consequence?

Why couldn't it be anything else, like losing more resources or spawning a kill squad of enemies after the Lich runs to try to mop you up after it lost and ran?

Why is death the ONLY option here?

[Brey223]

1 minute ago, Aldain said:

Me: What is the difference if a player lives or dies as long as they get 10 murmers from the stab?

That's not an answer, that isn't addressing my question at all. What is the DIFFERENCE between the two, if DE suddenly changed it what would be the difference?

So you obviously weren’t playing when it first launched cause it used to be that way. You got nothing from failing to kill your lich. I found it as I know what doesn’t belong in that slot. Still got an answer even if you don’t like it. 

[Brey223]

Just now, Aldain said:

Why should a pointless death be the consequence?

Why couldn't it be anything else, like losing more resources or spawning a kill squad of enemies after the Lich runs to try to mop you up after it lost and ran?

Why is death the ONLY option here?

Again I see it as an ok mechanic. You don’t. You’re not gonna change my mind nor I yours.

[Ikserdok]

3 minutes ago, Brey223 said:

Whenever someone fails to kill their lich I always just put “f” in the chat for a funny meme. Deaths in Warframe aren’t impacting you at all. So what if you got killed by your lich? Did it affect you? It put your energy down to default start of the mission but did nothing else. 

funny meme and every mem die after time, deaths in overall ye, aren’t impacting me at all but deaths like these ones on liches are big dissapointment and unfun by how they are

2 minutes ago, Brey223 said:

I did answer, you and him don’t seem to grasp the answer. You die to your lich you get 10 thralls worth of murmur + let’s say 10 thralls. You got 20 thralls worth of murmur. You’re now 20 thralls closer to discovering your liches weakness. That’s the answer and I’m not sure what it is that both of you don’t get.

I still dont find 10 murmurs from failed attempt worth of this disappoitment and lost of rage atleast at end of murmur farm for lich

for you maybe 10 murmus is enough when you just dont care for many things but for people who care more about enjoyment while playing 10 murmurs are not worth of it, it is jsut 10 thralls, same amount thralls which lich will spawn if not killed when have enemies around him or just additional mission as to keep also his rage for final sure spawn

[Brey223]

And what do YOU want to see the lich do when you fail to kill it? Punch you and leave? Cause that’s not gonna do a lot to you. 

[Aldain]

Just now, Brey223 said:

You’re not gonna change my mind nor I yours.

You're right on that.

But it doesn't make me wrong, nor does it make others who dislike the system as it is wrong.

So let's end this, because there is going to be no end to it otherwise.

[Brey223]

1 minute ago, Ikserdok said:

funny meme and every mem die after time, deaths in overall ye, aren’t impacting me at all but deaths like these ones on liches are big dissapointment and unfun by how they are

I still dont find 10 murmurs from failed attempt worth of this disappoitment and lost of rage atleast at end of murmur farm for lich

for you maybe 10 murmus is enough when you just dont care for many things but for people who care more about enjoyment while playing 10 murmurs are not worth of it, it is jsut 10 thralls, same amount thralls which lich will spawn if not killed when have enemies around him or just additional mission as to keep also his rage for final sure spawn

You’re getting mad at dying in this game? I see the death as I know what mod doesn’t belong in that slot AND I got some murmurs for it. I’m still closer to killing my lich. 

[Brey223]

1 minute ago, Aldain said:

You're right on that.

But it doesn't make me wrong, nor does it make others who dislike the system as it is wrong.

So let's end this, because there is going to be no end to it otherwise.

It also doesn’t make you right. Let’s not forget that tidbit 😉

[Ikserdok]

Just now, Brey223 said:

And what do YOU want to see the lich do when you fail to kill it? Punch you and leave? Cause that’s not gonna do a lot to you. 

no, just simple "mercy" finisher as it is but not failed sending lich away, then this lich or just after this or at the end when extracted is showing you through video on side of screen informing you as you have failed with killing him with this combo and he just reborn stronger, its not that hard to implement

[Aldain]

Just now, Brey223 said:

It also doesn’t make you right. Let’s not forget that tidbit 😉

At least not unless DE does something about it.

But time will tell on that front.

[Brey223]

Just now, Ikserdok said:

no, just simple "mercy" finisher as it is but not failed sending lich away, then this lich or just after this or at the end when extracted is showing you through video on side of screen informing you as you have failed with killing him with this combo and he just reborn stronger, its not that hard to implement

Honestly that would be more upsetting cause now you’re in this hype state of maybe you did kill it maybe you didn’t. Just to find out you didn’t. 

[Ikserdok]

1 minute ago, Brey223 said:

You’re getting mad at dying in this game? I see the death as I know what mod doesn’t belong in that slot AND I got some murmurs for it. I’m still closer to killing my lich. 

read with understanding

4 minutes ago, Ikserdok said:

I still dont find 10 murmurs from failed attempt worth of this disappoitment and lost of rage

 

[Brey223]

I would rather it just kill me and move on. Deaths in this game don’t matter to me but then again I played way too much dark souls to care. 

[Brey223]

Just now, Ikserdok said:

read with understanding

 

You still still get something for dying. It used to give you nothing but everyone just wants the lich to run away. There’s very little to nothing that kills you in here and really this is about people stabbing vs not stabbing. Not if the deaths are meangingful or not 

[Ikserdok]

3 minutes ago, Brey223 said:

Honestly that would be more upsetting cause now you’re in this hype state of maybe you did kill it maybe you didn’t. Just to find out you didn’t. 

nope, last time I was on lich mission it was few hours ago, all Im doing is writing my opinion which is not only mine about this and sharing feedback with it

2 minutes ago, Brey223 said:

I would rather it just kill me and move on. Deaths in this game don’t matter to me but then again I played way too much dark souls to care. 

and this is you, I dont see everyone are you so not everyone would rather to die for no reason without even chance to prevent it

1 minute ago, Brey223 said:

You still still get something for dying. It used to give you nothing but everyone just wants the lich to run away. There’s very little to nothing that kills you in here and really this is about people stabbing vs not stabbing. Not if the deaths are meangingful or not 

and still as for me 10 murmur for this is close to nothing, not much worth and is it was written not only once..this is just bug disappoitnment which is against our fun of this game

do you enjoy whenewher you get disappoitment? because I dont as I dont see sense of it as I dont see reward of 10 murmurs worth it, everyone have their different worth values and you cant say it as 10 murmurs are worth for everyone of these deaths

it just logicaly dont have sense but not everybody look at logic here who just dont care

as it was explained not only once...did you notice and lich rage also in this system? if you coudl read before posts about losing rage of lich and then wating many missions to get it back just to finally kill your lich when you dont need more murmur at all...10 additional murmur is not worth of it as you are gonna farm it even 50 while hoping for your lich to spawn to kill with no rage

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

27 minutes ago, Blade_Wolf_16 said:

Are people serioulsy blaming DE by saying they "need to fix this broken system" while the problem was clearly stated (by the OP even) as the choice of individual players to force their teammates in public groups to bare the presence of a Lich that they cannot kill and so just to avoid dying in a game with 4 to 6 Revives per game?

Sure, DE could find a solution to this, but nothing is "broken". The problem isn't the game itself, it's what individuals do in the game that's problematic to other individuals. 

The system is flawed in my belief. And yes I do think DE is at fault because this system is currently promoting a negative behavior on both sides of this argument. Our enemies were described as to by each death they get stronger not each time they take a knee and kill us. There is no current incentive to be friendly with the current system and that sucks. So yes I do put DE at fault and people arguing about what someone should expect from another in a public lobby is an issue as well

[Anarbitrio]

1 hour ago, Aldain said:

Doesn't Kill you when you WIN against the Uruk.

If you died in Shadow of Mordor you LOST the fight.

Here you die when you WIN.

Notice the issue?

You can't die in this game. Tenno are Omnipotent, that's why every Boss is designed with a minigame. And you always win the minigame, the phases just change how long it takes.

You can't have Shadow of Mordor style victories in this game because you can't be killed unless you allow it to happen.

If the current system were not in place, your Lich would never, ever win.

[Aldain]

13 minutes ago, Anarbitrio said:

If the current system were not in place, your Lich would never, ever win.

So should we just make it so every enemy can instantly kill the Tenno to balance it out?

You can't fight bad mechanics with bad mechanics, why do you think some people hated the Wolf for being a useless "everything but crit sniper" sandbag that was only good for being a damage sponge?

If this is the only solution to the problem of players being too strong then honestly they should have just not bothered with it in the first place, because not only will this not stop the players from being too strong, it does NOTHING to address the players STILL being too strong, it just kills them once which people are saying isn't even an issue.

These automatic deaths do nothing to solve the fact that the enemies never ever win, it just kicks the player in the shins out of spite and runs off. 

Edited November 20, 2019 by Aldain

[Anarbitrio]

11 minutes ago, Aldain said:

So should we just make it so every enemy can instantly kill the Tenno to balance it out?

You can't fight bad mechanics with bad mechanics, why do you think some people hated the Wolf for being a useless "everything but crit sniper" sandbag that was only good for being a damage sponge?

If this is the only solution to the problem of players being too strong then honestly they should have just not bothered with it in the first place, because not only will this not stop the players from being too strong, it does NOTHING to address the players STILL being too strong, it just kills them once which people are saying isn't even an issue.

These automatic deaths do nothing to solve the fact that the enemies never ever win, it just kicks the player in the shins out of spite and runs off. 

Well, they win now. Finally.

[Aldain]

4 minutes ago, Anarbitrio said:

Well, they win now. Finally.

And to think the only way they could ever win is by making it so the player literally could do nothing to stop it.

Might as well implement that system in every game where the enemies can't win if the player is skilled enough or geared enough to win the game.

Mario Bros? Flagpole explodes and you lose a life when you grab it.

Doom? All your guns backfire and kill you instead.

The list can go on, after all everyone plays a game to lose right that would make those games better right?

A forced death isn't a win for anyone, it isn't a win for the player or the AI, or even the game designer.

Edited November 20, 2019 by Aldain