Bring back "switch to melee" keybind

[--Q--Mrow]

I suppose I am probably in minority for this one (I hope not) but please bring back "switch to melee" keybind.

We used to have a very convenient way of switching to melee, just assign a key to it and press it. (personally used scroll up for melee and scroll down for weapons switching)

After the major melee updates and all the quickmelee ecc. being back (which is great itself) it's gone and all we have right now is hold to equip melee which takes time and is very inconvenient and clunky to use. It's few hotfixes and updates in and it's still not here even though it's such a simple option and I don't understand why was it gone in the first place.

Before you all jump on me and argue it is not needed anymore becouse you can just attack with melee and it's there. Hear me out, you're wrong. There's more ways to use melee then you think then and if you don't see the problem here, there are some more experienced players that use game mechanics and change deafult keybinds.. (uh oh elitist alert) that may have noticed this. This game's combat is unique and fluid like no other, I don't see the reason to make it less responsive or make it function slightly worse.

These are the current advantages of actually equipping a melee quickly with a tap of a key or a click if you will:

- Main thing with current melee system would be immediate heavy ground slam (with lift status) from the air while glinding ecc. At this moment when you shoot and jump, you can only perform regular ground slam with quick melee. If you wanted to do the heavy ground slam you'd have to hold the switch weapon key and by the time you'd do it, you'd hit the ground :) You could say just equip melee earlier¹ or just do an attack first².

¹Ok so doing this breaks the whole idea of smooth combat transition and fluidity which this game is about and turns you into a troglodyte that just got into this game and can't really figure out complex mechanics. Are we switching seemlesly from one to another and do spectacular combat or are we taking time to think, taking time to choose and taking time to attack? I thought it was the premise of most of the melee changes recently to make it smoother.

²This argument in turn will not equip the melee but quick equip it and if you will aim in the air to position ground slam better or stay longer in air you will aim with your pewpew and be back to primary or secondary, good job soldier :) I am putting aside the sole fact that melee attacking mid air will already break your position in the air and shorten time in the air too for positioning for ground slam. But most importanly, what am I attacking the air for beforehand? Hmm. It's just pointless and looks stupid.

- Being able to quickly switch to melee glide which is useful for blocking damage, right now hardly anyone uses it due to how you equip melee, usually it's done unintentionally after quick attacking with melee and before going back to pewpew

- Zooming in with melee in the air or not is a thing, I don't want to have to hold a button and break the whole fluidity to do that or sudenly switch to aiming with a gun.

 

Right now there are two distint keybind settings for switching weapons: switch weapon and switch gun. While the first one changes guns on tap and switches to melee on hold, the second one only switches between guns and is COMPLETELY REDUNDANT unless you maybe ironically don't want to accidentaly switch to melee if you hold it too long *shrugs*

tl;dr what title says, it's a simple option, bring it back.

Edited November 15, 2019 by -CM-Mrow
wording

[--Q--Mrow]

ps. it's an additional option that you don't even have to use so any argument against it such as: "it's pointless" or "you are being picky" or my favourite "I don't need it" that would imply that I don't need it too - is seen by me as ridiculous. Thank you for attention.

Edited November 15, 2019 by -CM-Mrow
punctuation, wording

[so_many_watermelons]

Yeah I got pretty used to having a dedicated melee swap key, specifically avoiding using the general "Swap Weapon" keybind. 

At this point though it may not be too good for me simply because I reused the same key for Heavy Attacks now. Still, more options can't hurt, and in the case of both the swapping and the Heavy Attacks, there's no reason why they couldn't simply make these options when they existed in both ways in the past. 

[Loza03]

Use a quick attack and hold F, you'll lock into melee much faster.

[--Q--Mrow]

19 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Use a quick attack and hold F, you'll lock into melee much faster.

you did read what I wrote or nay?

[Loza03]

1 minute ago, -CM-Mrow said:

you did read what I wrote or nay?

Yes, and I stand by what I said, since quick equip will immediately enter full equip if you access the input.

There's only so much real estate on a controller, and in terms of comfortable inputs, a keyboard. There exists a fast way to swap into dedicated melee mode without taking up this real estate.

[--Q--Mrow]

6 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Yes, and I stand by what I said, since quick equip will immediately enter full equip if you access the input.

There's only so much real estate on a controller, and in terms of comfortable inputs, a keyboard. There exists a fast way to swap into dedicated melee mode without taking up this real estate.

1. If you read what I wrote with understanding, you'd know that rhe whole point of this thread is that I don't want to quick attack beforehand to equip melee

2. What real estate??

[--Q--Mrow]

[Rakosta_Kai]

Are you manually blocking?

[Loza03]

50 minutes ago, -CM-Mrow said:

1. If you read what I wrote with understanding, you'd know that rhe whole point of this thread is that I don't want to quick attack beforehand to equip melee

2. What real estate??

Answering the second part first since the first part needs it, there are only so many buttons on a controller, and only so many within the comfortable reach of the standard mouse+keyboard control setup, most of which are already being used.

Which is why, since the situation is more or less moot in terms of speed, a dedicated button isn't practical. There simply aren't enough.

[Nichivo]

3 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Answering the second part first since the first part needs it, there are only so many buttons on a controller, and only so many within the comfortable reach of the standard mouse+keyboard control setup, most of which are already being used.

Which is why, since the situation is more or less moot in terms of speed, a dedicated button isn't practical. There simply aren't enough.

PC users that prefer mouse, and keyboard should not be limited because someone wants to use a controller. Modifiers are a thing, therefore running out of keys is unlikely. Asking him to swing with E and lock in with F is the exact kind of clunky many including myself, dislike.

 The new changes do not feel like they have been influenced by a PC gamer. 

I would prefer a separate bind for primary, and secondary. Pulling the wrong tool for the job, and cycling with one key is sloppy. Currently using the redundant swap gun to make things less clunky at times, but it's not ideal.

[Loza03]

22 minutes ago, Nichivo said:

PC users that prefer mouse, and keyboard should not be limited because someone wants to use a controller. Modifiers are a thing, therefore running out of keys is unlikely. Asking him to swing with E and lock in with F is the exact kind of clunky many including myself, dislike.

 The new changes do not feel like they have been influenced by a PC gamer. 

I would prefer a separate bind for primary, and secondary. Pulling the wrong tool for the job, and cycling with one key is sloppy. Currently using the redundant swap gun to make things less clunky at times, but it's not ideal.

And which key would that be? Again, it's not just the actual real estate, it's the comfortable real estate. There might be dozens of keys on a keyboard, but far fewer available to just within reach of the left hand using WASD. E is of course taken, so is R and X and Q, Shift and Control are, WASD and space are more or less non-negotiable, Caps Lock isn't always consistent in placement (usually it is but I've seen and had a handful of exceptions) and tab is pretty far out the way. Number Buttons are abilities and C is push-to-talk. Z, \ and ` are the only free keys in that area. Z and \ are less intuitive because they're not visible (since they're obscured by most WASD hand positions). Z is also aligned with your middle finger, making that finger the easiest to press with, which is the only 'movement' finger in charge of two directions already, including forwards. `, on the other hand, is also only just within a comfortable range, depending on your hand size.

Anything beyond that list (such as T, Y, G or V) requires you to stretch your finger or take your hand off WASD or mouse to access. G is used because waypoints are a relatively a side-feature, you don't usually need to access them in regular gameplay.

[Nichivo]

30 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

 WASD and space are more or less non-negotiable. 

You must be a default player. As an old competitive UT player from back in the day, ESDF is superior to WASD in every possible way. The reason Keybinds exist is because not everyone is comfortable with defaults.

[Loza03]

40 minutes ago, Nichivo said:

You must be a default player. As an old competitive UT player from back in the day, ESDF is superior to WASD in every possible way. The reason Keybinds exist is because not everyone is comfortable with defaults.

That's ultimately irrelevant. The Defaults are the default. The default has to work, and work comfortably. Whether you choose to rebind anything (and I have) is ultimately irrelevant. You should not have to, it should be entirely due to the player preferring an alternate configuration. And, with the defaults, there aren't any comfortable keys left.

[Nichivo]

10 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

That's ultimately irrelevant. The Defaults are the default. The default has to work, and work comfortably. Whether you choose to rebind anything (and I have) is ultimately irrelevant. You should not have to, it should be entirely due to the player preferring an alternate configuration. And, with the defaults, there aren't any comfortable keys left.

It's completely relevant! Plenty players do not find the current set up comfortable, and by your own words, "the default needs to work and work comfortably". It doesn't. They removed options that made it comfortable for others. Earlier you claim that doesn't matter because of controller users. Everyone does not play with controllers, and it is completely possible to have different control schemes for both controller and M+KB.

[Loza03]

Just now, Nichivo said:

It's completely relevant! Plenty players do not find the current set up comfortable, and by your own words, "the default needs to work and work comfortably". It doesn't. They removed options that made it comfortable for others.

Discussing the overall control scheme is a dramatically different thing to 'there are only so many keys within comfortable reach, and most of them are used, so this specific proposal isn't practical, especially considering that the gameplay side of the request (a fast switch into dedicated melee) is already in the game to some degree'.

2 minutes ago, Nichivo said:

Earlier you claim that doesn't matter because of controller users. Everyone does not play with controllers, and it is completely possible to have different control schemes for both controller and M+KB.

No I didn't. I'd always been saying that Mouse+keyboard is lacking enough comfortable keys to make this suggestion happen.

6 hours ago, Loza03 said:

There's only so much real estate on a controller, and in terms of comfortable inputs, a keyboard.

Literally my first post here.

[Nichivo]

4 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Discussing the overall control scheme is a dramatically different thing to 'there are only so many keys within comfortable reach, and most of them are used, so this specific proposal isn't practical, especially considering that the gameplay side of the request (a fast switch into dedicated melee) is already in the game to some degree'.

No I didn't. I'd always been saying that Mouse+keyboard is lacking enough comfortable keys to make this suggestion happen.

Literally my first post here.

There is absolutely nothing preventing an option being added in keybinds.

I have never experienced a game with so many control options, that I ran out of bind options. A fast switch to melee isn't in the game, and a bind being added as an option for someone to go directly to melee only, doesn't change your controls in the slightest. Let us decide where to bind it, our keyboards obviously have more keys than yours.

He is completely correct the current system is clunky, and options are needed. The great thing is as an option, it does not affect you.

[Loza03]

3 minutes ago, Nichivo said:

There is absolutely nothing preventing an option being added in keybinds.

I have never experienced a game with so many control options, that I ran out of bind options. A fast switch to melee isn't in the game, and a bind being added as an option for someone to go directly to melee only, doesn't change your controls in the slightest. Let us decide where to bind it, our keyboards obviously have more keys than yours.

He is completely correct the current system is clunky, and options are needed. The great thing is as an option, it does not affect you.

Option I would have 0 issues with. OP appears to be asking for it as a default feature though, which is not going to happen.

[541K4T]

2 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Option I would have 0 issues with. OP appears to be asking for it as a default feature though, which is not going to happen.

Good for you, but like OP, myself and many others DO HAVE ISSUES. Hence, the post which precisely elaborates the issue. In case you have no stake in the matter, why even bother posting?

And who told you its not going to happen? Feedback brought back Melee mode.

Edited November 17, 2019 by 541K4T

[Loza03]

4 hours ago, 541K4T said:

Good for you, but like OP, myself and many others DO HAVE ISSUES. Hence, the post which precisely elaborates the issue. In case you have no stake in the matter, why even bother posting?

And who told you its not going to happen? Feedback brought back Melee mode.

Because there isn't enough comfortable space on the default control scheme. OP suggests bringing it back, but to my knowledge there never was a 'switch to melee' keybind.

[Rakosta_Kai]

4 hours ago, 541K4T said:

And who told you its not going to happen? Feedback brought back Melee mode.

Couple things on this piece...

The only reason "melee mode" was brought back was due to consistent negative feedback that started from the moment they actually announced the removal and grew over time because of how much removing the option broke.

DE did not want to or they wouldn't have removed it in the first place.

Bringing it back in the form it's in now is a concession to those complaints and, honestly,  I don't see them conceding any further.

The things OP make mention of should be able to be done in the quick melee form. Dedicated melee doesn't predicate heavy attacks just longer hold presses.

Likewise, a long hold press of the F key will automatically switch you to dedicated melee...you do not have to quick melee to activate dedicated melee.

 

[Yamazuki]

1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

Because there isn't enough comfortable space on the default control scheme. OP suggests bringing it back, but to my knowledge there never was a 'switch to melee' keybind.

There was, I just don't remember if it had a keybind by default. I had set mine to Z.

[--Q--Mrow]

@Loza03 You literally brought up all the counter arguments that I mentioned in original post and explained why they make no sense.

aka: "I don't need it, so you don't need it" "Just do this, that way"

And yes there was a switch to melee keybind button and no it was never deafult option, it was blank until you changed bind it to your preference AN OPTION, as I mention in the ORIGINAL POST ALREADY.

Why are you still arguing an option that clearly is not for you, get lost.

[Loza03]

Just now, -CM-Mrow said:

@Loza03 You literally brought up all the counter arguments that I mentioned in original post and explained why they make no sense.

aka: "I don't need it, so you don't need it" "Just do this, that way"

And yes there was a switch to melee keybind button and no it was never deafult option, it was blank until you changed bind it to your preference AN OPTION, as I mention in the ORIGINAL POST ALREADY.

Why are you still arguing an option that clearly is not for you, get lost.

Then specify you want an option.

Default isn't going to happen.

[--Q--Mrow]

How many times to you need it being mentioned to register that in your head? I did specify this at least couple times, learn to read with understanding.

No one wants deafult, have your deafult as you want, let us modify keybinds that's all. Jesus F Christ dude

Edited November 18, 2019 by -CM-Mrow