Is it possible to get the correct sequence of Parazon mods for a Kuva Lich without risking my head to do trial and error?

[Marvelous_A]

Coz I'm not looking to get myself killed for this stupid mechanism. I know we can get the combination by killing Thralls but how about the sequence of mods?

Edited November 16, 2019 by Marvelous_A

[taiiat]

for sequencing, your only option is to just guess.

Slot Machine is the only way.

Edited November 16, 2019 by taiiat

[Marvelous_A]

4 minutes ago, taiiat said:

for sequencing, your only option is to just guess.

Slot Machine is the only way.

And insta death if I get it wrong? Disappointing coz I don't wanna take risk for uncertainty  Guess it's not the game feature for me.

[Siegecraft]

no there is no way to guess its total rng   tis is not to anger anyone but i dont see the point its not like the litch goes past lv 5 and enemy scalling is just to soties lvl  but  there is a trade off u wil get the sequence much faster so i usually alwayse go for the kill and change mods its the easiest to guess that way  usually  tho RNG can f you up some times and not get the litcch to spawn often

[Catacomb]

Really it's not that big of a deal, you only lose a bit of affinity...

[Marvelous_A]

Just now, Catacomb said:

Really it's not that big of a deal, you only lose a bit of affinity...

Each to their own, I get total immsered into a game so I prefer not to die for a game mechanic by every possible way. So I'm not gonna do Lich thing until there is a way to get the mod sequence without suiciding.

[Fleuretty]

4 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

Each to their own, I get total immsered into a game so I prefer not to die for a game mechanic by every possible way. So I'm not gonna do Lich thing until there is a way to get the mod sequence without suiciding.

so it's less immersive to die from a powered-up grineer's fully animated execution attack than it is to die from a single shot of a high-level grunt's pee-shooter?

[bl1te]

Hm, what if you immediately Alt+F4 the game the moment you see that the mod was wrong?

Am I right that your issue is about Lich rank up?

Edited November 16, 2019 by bl1te
2nd Q

[marcovchb]

1 hour ago, Marvelous_A said:

Each to their own, I get total immsered into a game so I prefer not to die for a game mechanic by every possible way. So I'm not gonna do Lich thing until there is a way to get the mod sequence without suiciding.

Then you are in for a total disappointment! Keep waiting!

[Oreades]

1 hour ago, Fleuretty said:

so it's less immersive to die from a powered-up grineer's fully animated execution attack than it is to die from a single shot of a high-level grunt's pee-shooter?

When you have literally no other choice than to walk into it...... yes

[dingo-saurus]

Unfortunately I think the point of DE doing it this way was to drive home how powerful the liches are when, generally, the warframes are the biggest threat in the room, so it's probably pretty unlikely to change. All I can think of to do would be to craft a little narrative around the mechanic to make it feel less jarring to yourself.

I really hope you can find a way to engage with it without it ruining your immersion, it sucks when you can't try out content that you'd like to.

[Marvelous_A]

6 hours ago, Fleuretty said:

so it's less immersive to die from a powered-up grineer's fully animated execution attack than it is to die from a single shot of a high-level grunt's pee-shooter?

Yes coz you have to defeat it before it defeats you. So basically you work hard so that lich can kill you for having the wrong mod sequence, which is borderline stupid.

[Marvelous_A]

5 hours ago, marcovchb said:

Then you are in for a total disappointment! Keep waiting!

Actually I don't even login as frequently as I used to after the update coz the whole Kuva Lich thing sounds like a huge turn off for me. And the grind. But mostly the Lich.

[Marvelous_A]

5 hours ago, bl1te said:

Hm, what if you immediately Alt+F4 the game the moment you see that the mod was wrong?

Am I right that your issue is about Lich rank up?

My issue is about I have to let myself die 4 times intentionally to have it rank up to R5. Nemesis system never worked for me in Shadow of Mordor which the Lich system took idea from coz I almost never let myself die to an orc.

Edited November 16, 2019 by Marvelous_A

[Lluid]

I have no problem with a game mechanic that forces the warframe to die, although I understand and respect the fact that you don't like that.

What annoys me is that it makes no sense in that case : liches are supposed to become stronger when we "kill" them, not when they defeat us. They are supposed to be annoying creatures that come back stronger after each "death". It feels illogical to see the enemy on his knees and suddenly he grabs and kills us, becoming invulnerable and uninterested in killing other warframes, which he could obviously.

Simply put, it would make more sense if the lich teleported away before we could finish it, until we find the right mods.

[WhiteMarker]

21 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

Actually I don't even login as frequently as I used to after the update coz the whole Kuva Lich thing sounds like a huge turn off for me. And the grind. But mostly the Lich.

So you don't want to play anymore because of a system that now is totally optional? Just straight up say that you aren't interested in the game anymore. Don't make it about a single update that hasn't really anything to do with it.

[Quarterdane]

1 hour ago, Marvelous_A said:

My issue is about I have to let myself die 4 times intentionally to have it rank up to R5.

Actually, according to this section on the wiki, "clearing Influence from every node on the Star Chart will cause the Lich to rank up."

As for the RNG element, I feel it's not that bad, considering that in the worst case scenario with 0/1/2/3 requiems known, you should only fail a total of 18/13/8/3 times before you finally get to kill/convert your Lich. Having to wait until you get to try a new combination (because the Lich calms down after a rank-up, and thus has a period during which it's less likely to appear) can be a bit of a drag, though.

[bl1te]

I see, then pray for luck. 25% probability to kill the Lich on your first attempt with all requiems discovered:

If Mod1-Slot1 is wrong (1st attempt), then try Mod2-Slot1.

If Mod2-Slot1 is wrong (2nd attempt), then correct one is Mod3-Slot1.

If Mod1-Slot2 is wrong (3rd attempt), then correct one is Mod2-Slot2.

And final order is Mods3-2-1 (4th attempt = 25% to guess on the first try).

Unless your conditions are not for yourself, but for "game-registered" failure - death. Then try Alt+F4 😄 But I'm not sure if it will register death or not.

Edited November 16, 2019 by bl1te
Clarify

[Fleuretty]

12 hours ago, Marvelous_A said:

Yes coz you have to defeat it before it defeats you. So basically you work hard so that lich can kill you for having the wrong mod sequence, which is borderline stupid.

And yet the only punishment for failing is a negligible amount of affinity and 1 revive. 🤔

Besides, when you have all 3 murmurs completed you only need to die twice to finally kill the lich on the third try guaranteed (unless you land the correct sequence within the first 2 attempts). I've never had to complete all 3 murmurs to kill a lich, as i luck out on the sequence way before i kill the 70th thrall on the 3rd murmur.

11 hours ago, Lluid said:

What annoys me is that it makes no sense in that case : liches are supposed to become stronger when we "kill" them, not when they defeat us. They are supposed to be annoying creatures that come back stronger after each "death". It feels illogical to see the enemy on his knees and suddenly he grabs and kills us, becoming invulnerable and uninterested in killing other warframes, which he could obviously.

Simply put, it would make more sense if the lich teleported away before we could finish it, until we find the right mods.

i see it as a highlander-style quickening, where they grow stronger from killing us by absorbing the warframe's energy. Having the lich teleport away at the last moment instead of executing us would cheapen the encounter imo.

[Lluid]

10 hours ago, Fleuretty said:

Having the lich teleport away at the last moment instead of executing us would cheapen the encounter imo.

Agreed, but the fact is that after a few times, the warframe death loses it's emotional impact because it becomes accepted, normal, unavoidable. The only effect it has on me now, is that it breaks immersion.

Instead, maybe our lich should enter an "overloaded with kuva" state where they become very strong, and fast, and our only chance is to run before they grab us. Having the chance to flee or die would give a little more excitement than something you can't avoid. Possibly giving more murmurs if you chose to sacrifice.

[Quarterdane]

7 hours ago, Lluid said:

Instead, maybe our lich should enter an "overloaded with kuva" state where they become very strong, and fast, and our only chance is to run before they grab us. Having the chance to flee or die would give a little more excitement than something you can't avoid.

Reminds me of how the Grustrag Three were when they were first introduced (and might still be for some of the less experienced players out there).

[Fleuretty]

14 hours ago, Lluid said:

Agreed, but the fact is that after a few times, the warframe death loses it's emotional impact because it becomes accepted, normal, unavoidable. The only effect it has on me now, is that it breaks immersion.

Instead, maybe our lich should enter an "overloaded with kuva" state where they become very strong, and fast, and our only chance is to run before they grab us. Having the chance to flee or die would give a little more excitement than something you can't avoid. Possibly giving more murmurs if you chose to sacrifice.

At least it took a few times before dying became immersion-breaking. A lich teleporting out would immediately take me out of the whole thing, as they'd be worse than every other grineer boss/grunt in the game who never runs away from a fight. (even Vay Hek decides to face you to the death after enough attempts)

Instead of dying or running away from a lich, (which makes a player feel weak, in a game that wants to make the player feel all-powerful) maybe the lich could just weaken the frame instead, causing some sort of significant debuff like having a dragon key equipped. This way the player doesn't just instantly die, but still have a lasting effect of the loss, and can still finish the mission through sheer skill. This could also be relatively easy to implement as it doesn't require new animations or systems, just a change on the effects of a lich execution from death to debuff.

 

Edited November 17, 2019 by Fleuretty

[-CdG-Zilchy]

This whole thread is  hilarious.

[Lluid]

10 hours ago, Fleuretty said:

maybe the lich could just weaken the frame instead, causing some sort of significant debuff like having a dragon key equipped

Seems like a great idea. A pain that lasts and encourages us to get revenge.

While playing a bit more, I realized that what annoys me the most is the discrepancy between the game mechanic and the taunting messages from our lich : they keep repeating that they grow stronger when we kill them, something like "there's no hell you can send me from which the queens' kuva can't retrieve me", yet that happens only once with the larvling.

[3rdpig]

I've killed a few liches when they were level 3. It's not hard to do, just more time consuming.

[Lokidus_Prime]

The problem isn't necessarily dying, losing affinity or even difficulty (for some, anyway), it's getting insta-killed for essentially playing Reverse Russian Roulette.  I know DE was going for a bit of a power reversal with the liches, but the way they did it feels very cheap.  It's generally not fun being punished for making a wrong guess rather than being bested in combat by what's supposed to be your nemesis.  I feel like liches should  be killed when finishing them with the parazon, but they come back stronger if you don't get the order right.  That said, I do believe that the liches should be able to have some means of insta-killing players as part of their actual fight - perhaps they could open you up to a parazon-like finisher where the lich kills you with that dagger-looking kuva thing that the Queen uses if you get caught in the combo.  Not only would making changes like this fit more in line with the whole lich theme, but if done right it would make them more of a genuine threat.