Do you think PVP can be successful ?

[Hypermega]

3 minutes ago, Mr.Fluffins said:

Oh boy, that sure is a lot of time huh? The deathmatch PvP games of old just can't compare...

No, honestly, this is a fad, and Epic knows this hence why they are wasting their Fortnite money to have a storefront in order to generate tons of money with minimal effort just like Valve.

4 years in a few weeks. and thats going of pub-Gs launch and no sign of letting up and you think thats just a fad? lmao YE iv just made BILLIONS over 4 years but hey its just a phase Kden.

But if you want to bury your head in the sand and insist old game modes are still holding up fine i mean COD IS still a thing. i cant check its data but all previous release on steam haven't gone over 10k since BO2 either way its irrelevant to my point. i dont even care about BR and i wouldn't play it if it was in warframe its just an example of the many MANY more successful game modes DE could EEEEEEASILY throw together. and they could because DE if nothing else are incredibly talented developers but they Wont. not can't, not haven't yet, but never will! lunaro was their last attempt but they just dont give a S#&$. let it sink in.

[Mr.Fluffins]

20 minutes ago, Hypermega said:

4 years in a few weeks. and thats going of pub-Gs launch and no sign of letting up and you think thats just a fad? lmao YE iv just made BILLIONS over 4 years but hey its just a phase Kden.

But if you want to bury your head in the sand and insist old game modes are still holding up fine i mean COD IS still a thing. i cant check its data but all previous release on steam haven't gone over 10k since BO2 either way its irrelevant to my point. i dont even care about BR and i wouldn't play it if it was in warframe its just an example of the many MANY more successful game modes DE could EEEEEEASILY throw together. and they could because DE if nothing else are incredibly talented developers but they Wont. not can't, not haven't yet, but never will! lunaro was their last attempt but they just dont give a S#&$. let it sink in.

Ok, a few things. Firstly, currently the top-played game on Steam (beating PUBG by a landslide and even freaking Dota) is Counter-Strike, essentially a very old deathmatch PvP game with updated graphics and minor tweaks. Arena shooters, yeah, these were mostly shafted, but there are still plenty of people playing them, just not on the same scale (pvp in Destiny and Halo is quite popular). Battlefield games would be more popular if not for EA being so effin good at consistently pissing of its fanbase over and over and over again.

Secondly, "just making" a BR mode for Conclave would require much more effort than you can imagine, unless you want it to be complete garbage. A good BR game has to have certain systems in it to be compelling and interesting, Respawn got that, hence why they managed to get a hold of BR market. Now I wouldn't mind some tweaks to Conclave, but as primarly PvE player (in Warframe), I would dread for DE to waste so much time to make a BR mode.

And to me personally, BR games don't cut it. I played them, and they were boring to me. Too much "downtime", not enough action, and even if something is going on, it's usually either in the beginning or end. I like faster paced PvP games, when once you get into the match, it's non-stop drive for 10-15-20-whatever minutes, kill or be killed, PvP in its purest form with no gear imbalance crap.

Edited January 24, 2020 by Mr.Fluffins

[Hypermega]

15 minutes ago, Mr.Fluffins said:

And to me personally, BR games don't cut it. I played them, and they were boring to me. Too much "downtime", not enough action, and even if something is going on, it's usually either in the beginning or end. I like faster paced PvP games, when once you get into the match, it's non-stop drive for 10-15-20-whatever minutes, kill or be killed, PvP in its purest form with no gear imbalance crap.

 

I feel the same way my dude! but that kind of pvp is what really doesnt cut it. otherwise id be playing quake! hell go look at how quickly halo evaporated on pc. all that hype for nothing. CS:GO like pub-g, like overwatch, like so many others stands on the shoulders of it's game modes! save the hostage might not be the most original but it doesn't have to be. if there is one lesson to be learned here its that obj based games win hands down! yes we have cod, and destiny is pretty lazy but they are exceptions to the rule and as i said not even halo could hold up. 

At the end of the day nobody and especially nobody playing warframe is trying to play quake style deathmatch, warframe would need something that suit's it. that stands out and is interesting but as you said the wont spare the dev time to make it. which is sad because they have squad link in the works along with stalker mode. all the makings for a version of D2's gambit or at least Doom eternal's game invasions but when they already have the makings of a left for dead mode and haven't i don't have much hope for this.

The best hope conclave has that they could do right now is to put a message on the conclave menu for the noobs that tells them that its balanced separately and that their mk-1 braton and sword they picked in the tutorial is actually meta, because i didn't know this. i tried it, got wrecked and just assumed it was a gear thing. was like a year before someone told me it was balanced lol. and if they put a server browser in there so people can at least easily get in a match. And then it needs a reward system! conclave mods or existing cosmetics aren't good enough for this generation! in a game that's all about farming? kuva, endo, riven slivers, plenty of options for DE but there needs to be something to make it worth while! and this is why i don't think DE care at all because these are such simple and obvious things that have been repeatedly brought up.

 

[Mr.Fluffins]

9 minutes ago, Hypermega said:

your post

I understand that not many people (comparatively) enjoy pure deathmatch PvP anymore, and it's fine. I would be totally fine with new pvp modes for other people, as long as I can play my old people's stuff. Although I feel it would be better for DE to come up with something more original (Railjack pvp?) than BR. Heck, they could even do something on the lines of Unreal Tournament's assault missions, Overwatch or Team fortress' PvP missions with attackers and defenders with a progressing objective (don't let attackers destroy this, hack that, kill these npcs etc.)

I think what Conclave can easily get right now is a bots mode (with no progression count obviously) for practice for new people (that would also have conclave tooltips built into it). I mean, the AI is already there for specters, executors, I think it wouldn't take that much effort.

P.S. To be honest, conclave does have an objectives mode, cephalon capture.

[Hypermega]

1 minute ago, Mr.Fluffins said:

I understand that not many people (comparatively) enjoy pure deathmatch PvP anymore, and it's fine. I would be totally fine with new pvp modes for other people, as long as I can play my old people's stuff. Although I feel it would be better for DE to come up with something more original (Railjack pvp?) than BR. Heck, they could even do something on the lines of Unreal Tournament's assault missions, Overwatch or Team fortress' PvP missions with attackers and defenders with a progressing objective (don't let attackers destroy this, hack that, kill these npcs etc.)

I think what Conclave can easily get right now is a bots mode (with no progression count obviously) for practice for new people (that would also have conclave tooltips built into it). I mean, the AI is already there for specters, executors, I think it wouldn't take that much effort.

P.S. To be honest, conclave does have an objectives mode, cephalon capture.

 

BR is just the most obvious example bro i mean google warframe battle royal the demand is overwhelming. arent you people sick of saying nobody wants it again and again? doesnt that tell you something? and cephalon capture is horrible thats the problem with that. i mean nice try copying rocket league (or at the very least griff ball) but its just terrible! way too high skill cap for whats meant to be a fun distraction but somehow dull as dish water. i think regular conclave suffers this as well. nothing like getting wtf-pwnd be a 360 back flip no scope 12 times in 10 seconds (srsly where are these people from and why aren't they at the top of twitch) to ensure you never ever play a game again. 

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

On 2019-11-16 at 11:38 PM, (PS4)Akuma_Asura_ said:

 So I wanted to discuss so you think PVP in Warframe can ever be successful again in Warframe ? & if so how can it be fixed ? 

Yes. Start with better rewards that effect PVE. Make all augments available to use in PVE, then focus on new game modes and tweak the gameplay.

I am probably one of the few people who have enjoyed PvP to the point of  building pvp specific builds for both rail wars and conclave. 

I have also been able to go 30-1 in PvP and enjoyed the experience. 

The things holding PvP back are the limited game mods, the immense mobility of frames just infinitely running away and the lack luster rewards. Other people complain about how the PvP kill to death ratio is recorded in the profile for everyone to see get flustered and quit forever. 

When Conclave was introduced, one of the things that got me to play where the mods and skins that were offered. Valkyr had a mod that extended hysteria duration for every kill you got, and nyx had a mod that sucked in enemies around here when she used absorb.

I thought these mods were incredible. I could not wait to get them so I put together a PvP build and off I went. Then when I got the mods, I was tremendously and infinitely disappointed that these augments where for PVP ONLY.... And then they changed the hysteria mod to restore your shield every time you got a kill with it... like that mattered at all....  I also got the PvP syndana then immediately lost interest in it after I realized I would have to do PvP challenges every week to keep its appearance... Then when nobody did PvP I was stuck with it in base mode with nothing special. 

If they added defense missions where you defended your cryopod while trying to destroy the enemy teams I feel more people would go to that game mode over deathmatch or capture the flag. I could see railjack pvp being a thing as well.

I have a 3.5 kda in conclave, with over 9,000 kills. That being said, most friends who I got to play it with me are now ashamed anytime they look through their profile and see a sub par Kda. I think removing it would go a long way to get people to play PvP and not be ashamed on how well they did. Maybe reduce some toxic attitudes about it. 

If they keep the Warframe's mobility high, making weapons kill significantly easier would go along way I think as long as you balanced out weapons that were easy to get hits with. 

(This comes from a guy who has literally killed people from jump sliding into people. I have killed people in such hilarious ways I recorded a few. ) 

[Kontrollo]

22 hours ago, Mr.Fluffins said:

... Secondly, "just making" a BR mode for Conclave would require much more effort than you can imagine, unless you want it to be complete garbage. ...

I honestly think so, too. The game engine is optimised for few players (with lots of bling) and hordes of enemies. But not a lot of players at the same time -- note all the things that are disabled in the relays, for example, you wouldn't want to have PvP in "relay-mode", now would you. They'd have to work on some fundamental things before they could even start thinking about implementing a BR mode.

 

22 hours ago, Hypermega said:

...

The best hope conclave has that they could do right now is to put a message on the conclave menu for the noobs that tells them that its balanced separately and that their mk-1 braton and sword they picked in the tutorial is actually meta, because i didn't know this. i tried it, got wrecked and just assumed it was a gear thing. was like a year before someone told me it was balanced lol. and if they put a server browser in there so people can at least easily get in a match. And then it needs a reward system! conclave mods or existing cosmetics aren't good enough for this generation! in a game that's all about farming? kuva, endo, riven slivers, plenty of options for DE but there needs to be something to make it worth while! and this is why i don't think DE care at all because these are such simple and obvious things that have been repeatedly brought up.

Right, that speaks to its current problems.

But "no dev investment for you!" is not really helping the discussion. I'd wager Archwing was even less popular and didn't get any dev investment for years, either. But now people play it as part of Empyrean.

I completely agree that giving zero information to new people about anything is a major problem, though. Hell, newbies only have a melee equipped if they start a game before making changes to their Conclave loadout (which they probably don't know how to do right away). That's just a testament to how little time the devs were willing to give it in the first place, though.

 

Besides, they must have something in the works. they alluded to it in Steve's launch stream. They didn't go into specifics, but at some point it was called "Warframekart" and then "track and field".

 

2 hours ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

... Other people complain about how the PvP kill to death ratio is recorded in the profile for everyone to see get flustered and quit forever. ... That being said, most friends who I got to play it with me are now ashamed anytime they look through their profile and see a sub par Kda. I think removing it would go a long way to get people to play PvP and not be ashamed on how well they did. Maybe reduce some toxic attitudes about it. ...

I mean, if that's a reason for people to not play, then making that optional, hiding it from public view, or removing it completely would be an incredibly easy fix. I think ideally though, they should keep the total number of kills (without context) to focus on the positive aspect.

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

On 2020-01-24 at 6:01 AM, Hypermega said:

i dont even care about BR and i wouldn't play it if it was in warframe

So why are you suggesting it?

[(PSN)Akuma_Asura_]

On 2019-12-16 at 11:51 PM, taiiat said:

yes. likely, perhaps not. and the 99% of the Community are possibly too toxic to allow PvP to exist anyways even though they aren't going to play it.

This is easily the most important post of this thread 

[taiiat]

14 hours ago, Kontrollo said:

I honestly think so, too. The game engine is optimised for few players (with lots of bling) and hordes of enemies. But not a lot of players at the same time -- note all the things that are disabled in the relays, for example, you wouldn't want to have PvP in "relay-mode", now would you. They'd have to work on some fundamental things before they could even start thinking about implementing a BR mode.

Player count is also directly one of the most significant factors that affects performance, too. high Player count, high minimum System Requirements.

[Firetempest]

I just miss mp games that just let the users choose the set-up. More and more its a set mode, no deviation. Because only the ranked fake points mode is important. Fun can only exist if you get something out of it right?

At least many of fun ones still exist in their own little communities. Can't wait for remastered Halo CE to be relaunched with mod support on steam.

 

Edited January 26, 2020 by Firetempest

[(PSN)sdaly96]

9 hours ago, Firetempest said:

I just miss mp games that just let the users choose the set-up. More and more its a set mode, no deviation. Because only the ranked fake points mode is important. Fun can only exist if you get something out of it right?

At least many of fun ones still exist in their own little communities. Can't wait for remastered Halo CE to be relaunched with mod support on steam.

 

Agreed, ability to customise the rules of private matches would be nice 

 

[(PSN)sdaly96]

Having more mods available as rewards that aren't just pvp specific would be a start for me personally

[(NSW)Quarky]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)sdaly96 said:

Having more mods available as rewards that aren't just pvp specific would be a start for me personally

oooo I've got two questions about that!

if the mods were available only through conclave, would you be bitter about "being forced to play conclave"? 

if the mods were available through the starchart in addition to conclave, would you still play conclave?

[(PSN)sdaly96]

53 minutes ago, (NSW)Quarky said:

oooo I've got two questions about that!

if the mods were available only through conclave, would you be bitter about "being forced to play conclave"? 

if the mods were available through the starchart in addition to conclave, would you still play conclave?

I would not be bitter, I would delve into it to get the mods, if they were available via pve it would depend on how, if it were via gamemodes like defection I'd go with conclave instead, I hate defection 

[(PSN)sdaly96]

Having the stalker mode in conclave could work, lorewise it could be teshin training tenno in case stalker attacks, or could be done via a simaris simulation.

[Hypermega]

On 2020-01-25 at 5:30 PM, (XB1)The Repo Man151 said:

So why are you suggesting it?

Literally the rest of that sentence. 🙄

On 2020-01-24 at 12:01 PM, Hypermega said:

i dont even care about BR and i wouldn't play it if it was in warframe its just an example of the many MANY more successful game modes DE could EEEEEEASILY throw together

 

Edited January 27, 2020 by Hypermega

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

On 2020-01-27 at 12:35 PM, Hypermega said:

Literally the rest of that sentence. 🙄

 

I just think it is kind of odd to suggest an idea that you personally won't play.

[Urlan]

I don't think much continuation with pure conclave would be worth much to the large majority of players, but something akin to Battlefront Classic with Simaris and Teshin recreating battles using the Simulacrum and allowing players to support the sides against each other or fighting the pre-existing scenario PVE style would work out well to engage both the large PVE crowd and the rather small but passionate PVE crowd.

[6-BristleBack-9]

DE needs to get a ''Legendary C&C Renegade's Multiplayer Game Mode Implementation Core'' so that they can fuse conclave to max rank and make it enjoyable af just like in that game but Legendary Core drops are astronomically low and DE claimed buttbleeding grind is necessary evil in warframe so i don't expect PvP will ever get enjoyable in this game.

imagine players fight each other in open world maps (or really big maps) who are from different syndicates that have different themed enemies/structures/vehicles they can buy with managing their in-match economy and trying to destroy enemy syndicate's base with different strategies.

start with basic weapons > kill enemies > get some money > buy stronger weapons > don't die so you don't use the things you bought > kill more or protect your money making assets > save money enough to buy a apache attack heli... errr... something like that, like grineer dropship that has turrets on plains > use that vehicle > attack enemy team > get rekt by enemy base's defense tower > save up money again > get highly armored tank this time > realize you will never get a PvP system like this > stop imagining > delete warframe > install c&c renegade > play the game with your friends on LAN

(sorry i just remembered good old days 😭 )

but yea i would like conclave to be something like this, where you need to come up with coordinated plays and thinking some strategies and manage in-match economy in addition to regular battle you participate in against other players.

[(PSN)sdaly96]

16 hours ago, Urlan said:

I don't think much continuation with pure conclave would be worth much to the large majority of players, but something akin to Battlefront Classic with Simaris and Teshin recreating battles using the Simulacrum and allowing players to support the sides against each other or fighting the pre-existing scenario PVE style would work out well to engage both the large PVE crowd and the rather small but passionate PVE crowd.

This links in with what I suggested about the stalker mode, could be made to fit the lore, prep for sentient invasion or something.

[UghZug]

"Do you think PVP can be successful ?"

Lunaro sure, pvp with warframes in the deathmatch sense? No. The game's balancing is terribly skewd and having to cough up a conclave approved fitting to work with what little has been balanced is a huge hindrance.  DE would be better off scraping conclave and giving players monster play like control of the various bosses that can randomly spawn in missions as well as removing the light flickering telltale signs.  Stalkers theatrics always made me laugh.  Assassinations should be suddenly death and in your face.

[SolarDwagon]

Yes, PvP can work in Warframe.

Conclave is actually a brilliant system as far as PvP goes.

However, Warframe's current PvP is a very competitive system (high reliance on twitch reflexes and movement) in a very casual game, which means it needs much more smoothing into.
The short answer is that it needs dedicated servers, which we're.... partway to, and it needs real ranking and matchmaking.

My personal problem with PvP is that I played before the new player gating, when rank rushing was the meta, and got just far enough that I'm no longer covered by gating, despite the fact that with the new systems I have much, much less gear than most newbies that are covered by it. So it's a double whammy of both lack of customisation (and there are a few pretty strong mods as well that are straight buffs), as well as relatively low practice, but I'm still put against people that can have literally a thousand hours in pvp alone. So yeah, ranks and matchmaking are essential to lessen curbstomping.

 

Edited January 29, 2020 by SolarDwagon

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

7 hours ago, UghZug said:

"Do you think PVP can be successful ?"

Lunaro sure, pvp with warframes in the deathmatch sense? No. 

What makes you think Lunaro can be successful? Lunaro has a player base that is much smaller than conclave's player base, although DE does keep butchering Lunaro.

[(PSN)sdaly96]

13 hours ago, UghZug said:

"Do you think PVP can be successful ?"

Lunaro sure, pvp with warframes in the deathmatch ? No 

Here's what I'll say about lunaro....the only use I'd have for it is settling time breakers in events held in my clan lol, because i know players will try their hardest to stay away from it.