Do you think PVP can be successful ?

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

On 2020-01-29 at 5:37 PM, SolarDwagon said:

Conclave is actually a brilliant system as far as PvP goes.

However, Warframe's current PvP is a very competitive system (high reliance on twitch reflexes and movement) in a very casual game, which means it needs much more smoothing into.

I agree. Conclave is a bit too advanced for the kind of casual playerbase that warframe attracts. And there is no tutorial for Conclave that explains which things are different and what things are the same. DE has never done well with explaining the content in their game, which is why so many players flock to the wiki for information.

[Sentinel-14]

On 2019-11-17 at 12:38 AM, (PS4)Akuma_Asura_ said:

... it’s like 1-5% of the community even play conclave regularly, it’s truly unpopular.
So I wanted to discuss so you think PVP in Warframe can ever be successful again in Warframe ? & if so how can it be fixed ? I personally feel like DE should have a team that specifically works on PVP 

as has been said, DE has a PVP team of 2 that only work on it on their own time when they feel like it. They dont get paid to work on PVP, becasue DE puts no focus on it. Warframe is not a PVP game.

I do not believe that PVP will ever be successful in Warframe. It's been my experience that most people who play Warframe either don't care about PVP (and thus don't try it) or actively hate PVP and avoid it at all costs. I'm in the latter group: I hate PVP. I've hated the PVP mode in every game I've played that has one. I do not enjoy myself when I play Overwatch with my friends. PVP is just not something I enjoy, and even ruined a game I liked to play when the devs started focusing and balancing more on the PVP mode without regard to the damage it did to the PVE mode.

I enjoy Warframe due in no small part to the fact that it does not have PVP. The Devs don't waste their time with it, the game does not have to consider PVP balance, and I don't have to deal with elitist snobs who have to point out their higher rank at every turn.

_{(yes I know MR is a thing in this game but so far I've never had anyone act elitist toward me simply because their number is higher than mine.)}

My general attitude toward PVP and Warframe is this: NO. If you want PVP, go play another game.

[IllogicalLogic420]

Yes. The way it becomes successful is really simple:

- remove mod advantages (not everyone has a lot of mods)

- remove rank advantages

- remove weapon advantages (high tier weapon vs low tier is too one-sided)

- provide equal opportunity (same stats for everyone, regardless of frame, same weapon availability for everyone)

 

Grofit.

[(PSN)sdaly96]

17 minutes ago, IllogicalLogic420 said:

Yes. The way it becomes successful is really simple:

- remove mod advantages (not everyone has a lot of mods)

- remove rank advantages

- remove weapon advantages (high tier weapon vs low tier is too one-sided)

- provide equal opportunity (same stats for everyone, regardless of frame, same weapon availability for everyone)

 

Grofit.

I personally liked the mechanic in the dark sector pvp where everyone started unranked and unlocked stuff as they killed, that would be a nice add imo

[(XBOX)Red Dough Boy]

Since this game plays very differently from most other shooters I can't see it being that successful in pvp since actually killing each other is more complicated than it is in other games where you're locked into a map rather than being able to fully traverse everything. It almost reminds me of trying Ace Combat 7 online where everyone is constantly dodging and the games end in very few kills. Most of the missiles you fire are misses and the intensity comes from surviving against opponents. 

 

Maybe if it was implemented in the system map between clans trying to compete for solar rails, but even then I can't see pvp making much sense since the Tenno are heavily outnumbered and have to fight together against a whole mess of enemies in the solar system. Other games have a similar theme, but end up with multiplayer because it's a draw for standard first person and third person shooters. I'd still support the idea of pvpve in certain areas, and shifting between fighting enemies and fighting players. I think it could be successful if implemented in an interesting way. 

 

Something I will always give credit to DE for is that they don't balance weapons according to multiplayer modes that people may or may not play, other games did that and I have since quit those.  

[(XBOX)Red Dough Boy]

18 minutes ago, (PS4)sdaly96 said:

I personally liked the mechanic in the dark sector pvp where everyone started unranked and unlocked stuff as they killed, that would be a nice add imo

Everyone links into Excalibur and gets a Braton, that's about as balanced as you could get with multiplayer in this. Melee would also need to be heavily redone in mp modes since it's the main thing people like to build for as well. 

I could see Teshin saying something like "You're used to your elegant weaponry, now try a fight where skill is your only advantage." 

[(PSN)sdaly96]

14 minutes ago, (XB1)Red Dough Boy said:

Everyone links into Excalibur and gets a Braton, that's about as balanced as you could get with multiplayer in this. Melee would also need to be heavily redone in mp modes since it's the main thing people like to build for as well. 

I could see Teshin saying something like "You're used to your elegant weaponry, now try a fight where skill is your only advantage." 

Set loadouts could also work

[(XBOX)Red Dough Boy]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)sdaly96 said:

Set loadouts could also work

True, the Braton is just the most balanced weapon I can think of. 

[(PSN)sdaly96]

11 hours ago, (XB1)Red Dough Boy said:

True, the Braton is just the most balanced weapon I can think of. 

They could have gamemodes with only one type of weapon, snipers for example. Or modes where certain dog types are increased/decreased

[(PSN)sdaly96]

Even something akin to gun game on CoD

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

On 2020-02-04 at 2:58 PM, IllogicalLogic420 said:

remove mod advantages (not everyone has a lot of mods)

we pretty much have that now in Conclave, and that was the intent with Conclave 2.0.

 

On 2020-02-04 at 2:58 PM, IllogicalLogic420 said:

remove rank advantages

There are no mastery rank advantages in Conclave.

 

On 2020-02-04 at 2:58 PM, IllogicalLogic420 said:

- remove weapon advantages (high tier weapon vs low tier is too one-sided)

How so?

On 2020-02-04 at 2:58 PM, IllogicalLogic420 said:

- provide equal opportunity (same stats for everyone, regardless of frame, same weapon availability for everyone)

People still wouldn't like it because they are always looking for ways to disparage PvP. One of the good things about the PvP we have now is the diversity of choice that is given to players. Nearly everything is viable and can even be dominant in some situations.

[LoriSei]

It can and it's not Impossible that they can't. Only those who dissagree lacks resolve. I would say that the PvP they have right now. Is very outdated in terms of other PvP shooters out there. If they pursue to fix it I would say they need to overhaul the game, something thats, never seen implemented in Warframe like (Railjack) 

I wish they use Operators in PvP limiting it's void powers and train them to be strong... -Duviiri Paradox

Edited February 6, 2020 by LoriSei

[(XBOX)CFE Vulari]

"PvP is not where the money is..." 

Um... most played game... pvp. Highest paid streamers...  pvp.Highest paid franchise.... pvp. Um, what planet are you on?

[SolarDwagon]

On 2020-02-04 at 1:29 PM, (XB1)The Repo Man151 said:

I agree. Conclave is a bit too advanced for the kind of casual playerbase that warframe attracts. And there is no tutorial for Conclave that explains which things are different and what things are the same. DE has never done well with explaining the content in their game, which is why so many players flock to the wiki for information.

I mean, this applies just as much to the main PvE game as well, but yes, much better documentation would help no end with moving into PvP.

More advanced isn't a bad thing either, as it can lead into persistent "endgame" or just widen the appeal of a game that's already built on "something for everyone". I don't want the fundamentals of warframe PvP to change. But the structures around them like matchmaking can be improved massively.

[DOOMPATRIOT]

The Forums are basically a pvp experience, lol...

[(XBOX)CFE Vulari]

    I see where people are talking about the insane movement of pvp players as if that is a flaw in the game. That is literally the apex of the game's movement system. Those players aren't doing anything special, but it does take a lot of practice to aim and fire on a moving target while flying through the air. This doesn't mean this same parkour isn't for PvE as well. Of course it is. I have YouTube videos of us running a nightmare raid with no hud. Bots cant really hit you if you are using your parkour to it's fullest. Also, any old raid speed runner also used this same parkour method. Once you get the hang of it, you can control it amazingly. DE once commented that warframe combat is supposed to be like an aerial dog fight.

    Of course if the argument is if to bring back physics to warframe parkour, making it difficult again, I'm totally down for that.

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

18 hours ago, SolarDwagon said:

I mean, this applies just as much to the main PvE game as well, but yes, much better documentation would help no end with moving into PvP.

More advanced isn't a bad thing either, as it can lead into persistent "endgame" or just widen the appeal of a game that's already built on "something for everyone". I don't want the fundamentals of warframe PvP to change. But the structures around them like matchmaking can be improved massively.

You are right. Your'e absolutely right. Basic things like matchmaking/dedicated servers (beyond the player dedicated one that we have now) or having custom lobbies or a spectator system have been missing for years. These things would go a long way towards helping PvP in Warframe.

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

On 2020-02-06 at 1:19 AM, (XB1)CFE Vulari said:

"PvP is not where the money is..." 

Um... most played game... pvp. Highest paid streamers...  pvp.Highest paid franchise.... pvp. Um, what planet are you on?

Good observation. Kinda funny that one destiny streamer streaming crucible has more concurrent viewers than the entirety of warframe on twitch.

[(XBOX)Chroma Prime]

On 2019-12-12 at 9:34 AM, Teridax68 said:

Yes, it is elitist to believe the masses are conspiring to personally ruin the day for you and your tiny club

To be fair, you don't see people going around casually saying spy missions should be removed. But you do see that from people who don't like Conclave. Which has been an overall plus for the game. I think the time spent on it by the 1-4 developers that worked on it has paid dividends when you consider the size of the community Conclave has,

[PookieNumnums]

Slappers only operator pvp or mutiny 

[Antris]

The current netcode does not favor PVP.

Its already shaky in PVE that is much more lenient: just look at normal missions and Railjack, latency/lag/ping causes many issues. This game also has a very global community, so dedicated servers would only benefit the locals, global cloud based server hosting could work, but it would pretty much split communities and it costs as well.

Perhaps if the PVP mode was relaunched as a separate client. However things like hitscan weapons would need to be turned to projectiles etc.

[Teridax68]

22 hours ago, (XB1)Chroma Prime said:

To be fair, you don't see people going around casually saying spy missions should be removed. But you do see that from people who don't like Conclave. Which has been an overall plus for the game. I think the time spent on it by the 1-4 developers that worked on it has paid dividends when you consider the size of the community Conclave has,

... and how big is the Conclave community, exactly? Given the size of DE as a company, and that of Warframe's total playerbase, can it really be said that the time and resources put into Conclave have been worth it?

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

17 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

... and how big is the Conclave community, exactly? Given the size of DE as a company, and that of Warframe's total playerbase, can it really be said that the time and resources put into Conclave have been worth it?

Given by the fact that there are several thousand people in the conclave discord, and I know that many people on Xbox who are a part of the conclave community but don't use discord, Id estimate that the size of the community is around 5,000 people. For putting the bare minimum of effort into the mode (which turned out great until late 2017) DE has made a community that will continue playing conclave, and thus warframe, for years to come. I'd say the work to player retention ratio is extremely high with Conclave. I would go as far as to say that it has the best player retention metrics of any content in Warframe, excluding the ye olde Solar Rail Conflicts.

[Teridax68]

17 minutes ago, (XB1)The Repo Man151 said:

Given by the fact that there are several thousand people in the conclave discord, and I know that many people on Xbox who are a part of the conclave community but don't use discord, Id estimate that the size of the community is around 5,000 people. For putting the bare minimum of effort into the mode (which turned out great until late 2017) DE has made a community that will continue playing conclave, and thus warframe, for years to come. I'd say the work to player retention ratio is extremely high with Conclave. I would go as far as to say that it has the best player retention metrics of any content in Warframe, excluding the ye olde Solar Rail Conflicts.

Given that the Warframe total playerbase is in the millions, that would be a no, then.

[DeccanTraps]

The Thing about PvP is it has to be baked in from the start. The demands in progression, net code, engine and item balance are all too differnt to those of PvE.

And really, trying to PvP in warframe is like orderng a hamburger at a proper ityalian pitza place. You'll probibly get one but you are missing the point amd there almoast certainly a place nearby that is more focussed on giving you what you want.

Thats to say nothing of the effects on a comunity of having people go from fellow players to actave competitors.

And, wellnot to be blunt? We were given reall meaningfull PvP, the dark sectors lead to more DDOS attacks than actual in game ones.

Inconclusion: no, stop asking, find one of several FTP PVP games and scratch the itch there, every one will be happyer and you'll burn out on both games more slowly wih the variety.