Do you think PVP can be successful ?

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

17 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

A simplified PvP also wouldn't really be Warframe at that point. 

 

Warframe simplifies and lessens the challenge of grind content etc regularly. And for balance sake since this isn't something like Titan all which I can say has an even higher skill ceiling than wf. And again pvp isn't the main focus of the game I think it'd fit. I don't belive they should focus on pvp pvp pvp but adding it in an accessible and more player friendly modes would bring in more players and sustainability I remeber drift races in the void (player regulated). and things like lunario are a great fit. Lunario is very simple for example and the moment system in wf benfits it greatly currently so much movement for actual players combating players the movement is very very very very off putting for many. Changing conclave and adding things like races updating lunario and possibly updated player vs player combat isn't a bad idea. But that's just my personal opinion

[DeMonkey]

18 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

and things like lunario are a great fit

Lunaro is a good example of why it isn't. Lunaro is just as unplayed, if not more so. If it were a great fit this would surely be different?

19 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Warframe simplifies and lessens the challenge of grind content etc regularly

Simplifying challenge and simplifying the core gameplay are very different things.

Regardless, this is one of those things we just disagree on. I'm not looking to convince anyone. If you enjoy the PvP, fair enough, but I think expecting changes to it is a waste of time, and there's far better PvP developers out there to support.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

5 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Lunaro is a good example of why it isn't. Lunaro is just as unplayed, if not more so. If it were a great fit this would surely be different?

Simplifying challenge and simplifying the core gameplay are very different things.

Regardless, this is one of those things we just disagree on. I'm not looking to convince anyone. If you enjoy the PvP, fair enough, but I think expecting changes to it is a waste of time, and there's far better PvP developers out there to support.

And while I do respect you're opinion and agree that there are far better pvp games out there to which I actively play. I don't see an issue with wanting more from the dev team at DE 

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

45 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

If you enjoy the PvP, fair enough, but I think expecting changes to it is a waste of time, and there's far better PvP developers out there to support.

Do you think those other developers are capable of replicating the experience of Conclave? I don't think so. That's why many of us have stuck with DE for years even though they have largely neglected the mode.

[DeMonkey]

1 minute ago, (XB1)The Repo Man151 said:

Do you think those other developers are capable of replicating the experience of Conclave? I don't think so. That's why many of us have stuck with DE for years even though they have largely neglected the mode.

A: Yes.

B: Many are capable, and provide, far better experiences than conclave.

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

25 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

A: Yes.

B: Many are capable, and provide, far better experiences than conclave.

How are they better experiences than Conclave?

[DeMonkey]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)The Repo Man151 said:

How are they better experiences than Conclave?

I can specify a whole range of gruesome and explicit things that are better experiences than Conclave. 

We get it, you like conclave. Conclave is the greatest thing in your life. You dream about conclave.

But if conclave were actually a good example of PvP, it would be played more and it would be played regardless of any reward. It is not.

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

Just now, DeMonkey said:

I can specify a whole range of gruesome and explicit things that are better experiences than Conclave. 

We get it, you like conclave. Conclave is the greatest thing in your life. You dream about conclave.

But if conclave were actually a good example of PvP, it would be played more and it would be played regardless of any reward. It is not.

Contrary to popular belief, I don't particularly like Conclave. I appreciate it and the work that went into it, but I wouldn't say it is my favorite thing about Warframe.
Conclave has a unique feel to it that no other game can match. It's just a treasure so unique that it is disappointing that the beauty of it goes over the heads of so many. So painfully unaware of the one of a kind experience just a few key presses away. No other game has the unique features that Conclave has. If there is another game, I will move to it. Fortunately, there isn't.

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

59 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

But if conclave were actually a good example of PvP, it would be played more and it would be played regardless of any reward. It is not.

This just isn't true in the type of game warframe is. 

People who want different weapons or frames have to do things other then conclave. Destiny 2, a highly PvP based game even has consistent PvP based rewards to keep people playing it. 

[(XBOX)GameGhost123]

1 minute ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

This just isn't true in the type of game warframe is. 

People who want different weapons or frames have to do things other then conclave. Destiny 2, a highly PvP based game even has consistent PvP based rewards to keep people playing it. 

Exactly conclave just needs some more incentive for pve players to start grinding it and then alot of ppl will realize how good it is. Alot of the community complaining about conclave are ppl with 0 conclave kills and they're spreading bad publicity about it which leads to more ppl not playing just for the fact that they've heard conclave is trash or dead from somoeone else even tho its not. Ppl need to try it out for themselves rather than relying on what other ppl think.

[DeMonkey]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Destiny 2, a highly PvP based game even has consistent PvP based rewards to keep people playing it

The would in all likelihood however still play it regardless of there weren't any. Regardless my point stays the same. If rewards are required to make PvP popular, the PvP isn't good.

[(XBOX)GameGhost123]

Just now, DeMonkey said:

The would in all likelihood however still play it regardless of there weren't any. Regardless my point stays the same. If rewards are required to make PvP popular, the PvP isn't good.

Warframes a looter shooter dont know what you're talking about. Ppl have always been playing warframe for better gear/items. It is definitely needed to improve conclave player base. The game modes themselves are fine. 

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

Just now, DeMonkey said:

The would in all likelihood however still play it regardless of there weren't any. Regardless my point stays the same. If rewards are required to make PvP popular, the PvP isn't good.

No. 

Destiny 2 has multiple PvP modes like Trials of Osiris that gave specific rewards for different PvP challenges. In a looter shooter game like Warframe/Destiny people aren't going to do something if they don't shoot, then thus get loot. Some of the best weapons for PvP in Destiny were the guns locked behind the PvP challenges. So people would try to get 10 wins in a row in trials of Osiris just for the good rewards. 

If Warframe was more akin to halo, you would be right, or another game with no grind/no progression. If PvP had exclusive augments for warframe abilities, even a PvP exclusive warframe and or weapons that were good, people would do it just for that, and the game modes would grow. 

For the relatively few game modes that exist, it would be simpler to tune it to the feedback. (People did PvP in warframe originally for rewards, taxing the dark sectors and the like. I first tried PvP cause I wanted the Syndana and to use the PvP augments in PvE... much to my dismay... 

I just turned out to be really good at Conclave, and enjoyed the satisfaction of nailing three shots with a latron to secure a kill

[(XBOX)GameGhost123]

1 minute ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

No. 

Destiny 2 has multiple PvP modes like Trials of Osiris that gave specific rewards for different PvP challenges. In a looter shooter game like Warframe/Destiny people aren't going to do something if they don't shoot, then thus get loot. Some of the best weapons for PvP in Destiny were the guns locked behind the PvP challenges. So people would try to get 10 wins in a row in trials of Osiris just for the good rewards. 

If Warframe was more akin to halo, you would be right, or another game with no grind/no progression. If PvP had exclusive augments for warframe abilities, even a PvP exclusive warframe and or weapons that were good, people would do it just for that, and the game modes would grow. 

For the relatively few game modes that exist, it would be simpler to tune it to the feedback. (People did PvP in warframe originally for rewards, taxing the dark sectors and the like. I first tried PvP cause I wanted the Syndana and to use the PvP augments in PvE... much to my dismay... 

I just turned out to be really good at Conclave, and enjoyed the satisfaction of nailing three shots with a latron to secure a kill

I like the way u think man i agree completely 

[DeMonkey]

9 minutes ago, (XB1)GameGhost123 said:

Warframes a looter shooter dont know what you're talking about.

I didn't say it isn't?

4 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

So people would try to get 10 wins in a row in trials of Osiris just for the good rewards. 

I'm not saying they wouldn't.

You're both reading more into my post than I'm saying. 

The only thing I am saying is that if rewards are required to incentivise people to play PvP, it's because the PvP isn't good.

[(XBOX)GameGhost123]

2 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

I didn't say it isn't?

I'm not saying they wouldn't.

You're both reading more into my post than I'm saying. 

The only thing I am saying is that if rewards are required to incentivise people to play PvP, it's because the PvP isn't good.

Lol in a looter shooter like warframe thats how it works ppl want to play something to get good rewards. Conclave itself isnt the problem.  Its the lack of focusing on it on DE's part. 

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

Just now, DeMonkey said:

The only thing I am saying is that if rewards are required to incentivise people to play PvP, it's because the PvP isn't good.

This is just not necessarily true. I could counter your point by mentioning how many people like Duels in dojo's despite the lack of any balance in said duels.  

You can say PvP isn't perfect and give it suggestions, but people really do need an incentive to play it when the game's core progression isn't based around it. People find duels fun and silly and don't take it too seriously, but don't go out of their way to duel. 

They need to level up weapons for mastery rank, farm the newest prime frame and weapons or get the newest kuva lich weapon that rocks their socks off. 

If Destiny is constantly coming out with new PvP modes, and keeps players invested in doing it with PvP rewards? There is a reason they are doing it. (And most people who play Destiny PvP will tell you its good. But they would ignore it for the raids when the loot from other activities is better for their progression or if they already have all the PvP rewards)

[DeMonkey]

5 minutes ago, (XB1)GameGhost123 said:

Lol in a looter shooter like warframe thats how it works ppl want to play something to get good rewards. Conclave itself isnt the problem.  Its the lack of focusing on it on DE's part. 

Really? Because I was under the impression people want to play something that's fun. 

4 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

This is just not necessarily true. I could counter your point by mentioning how many people like Duels in dojo's despite the lack of any balance in said duels.  

Not a large number of people by any count.

4 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

You can say PvP isn't perfect and give it suggestions, but people really do need an incentive to play it when the game's core progression isn't based around it.

They don't, a good example is Dark Souls. PvP was not the main focus by any stretch, yet Dark Souls is well known for it's PvP playerbase, even if it's referred to as toxic.

PvP is not the focus, PvP doesn't reward you and yet it's still played.... why? Because it's fun.

Fun PvP gets played, and is thus good. Not fun PvP doesn't get played and is thus bad, incentivising people by dangling loot in their face doesn't change that it's bad.

[(XBOX)GameGhost123]

Just now, DeMonkey said:

Really? Because I was under the impression people want to play something that's fun. 

 

Conclave is fun already.  We're talking about growing the conclave population here. So yes incentivizing it is necessary.

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

1 minute ago, DeMonkey said:

Really? Because I was under the impression people want to play something that's fun. 

Fun is subjective, and people can find different things from you fun. Don't assume everyone is like you. You can assume there are people like you, but fun varies on the individual. As the opposing opinion to yours have proved, some people do enjoy it. 

2 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Not a large number of people by any count.

Idk. I think about 80% of warframe have participated in a dojo duel at least once. Just to mess around or show how silly gear could be. I see people duel for plat often enough in region chat or otherwise. 

3 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

They don't, a good example is Dark Souls. PvP was not the main focus by any stretch, yet Dark Souls is well known for it's PvP playerbase, even if it's referred to as toxic.

PvP is not the focus, PvP doesn't reward you and yet it's still played.... why? Because it's fun.

Fun PvP gets played, and is thus good. Not fun PvP doesn't get played and is thus bad, incentivising people by dangling loot in their face doesn't change that it's bad.

Except Dark Souls rewarded you with souls if you won the fight, and could give you a massive stockpile of souls depending on the situation. Dark souls PvP was inherently broken, and could be exploited. 

People could turn your argument against you and say dark souls pvp wasn't fun. You were already busy enough going through an already hard game, to find a player stalking you, or snipe you while you are occupied with another enemy that makes you lose all your progress and your stored souls. 

They could easily make the point that getting frustrated cause a man in thorn mail dodge rolled against them to death and there was nothing they could do. 

[(XBOX)GameGhost123]

In a looter shooter ppl want rewards its a constant grind if at some point theres no incentive to play a certain game mode then the small population of loyal players that stick with it just because its fun will still play. But the rest will move on cuz theres no more incentive. Fun only lasts until u get bored if u want to make something last for a very long time u need to put in rewards worthwhile and focus on players feedback.  DE could be doing this but they choose not to

Edited February 12, 2020 by (XB1)GameGhost123

[(XBOX)GameGhost123]

Its sad honestly conclave has so much potential 

[DeMonkey]

5 minutes ago, (XB1)GameGhost123 said:

Conclave is fun already. 

The tiny population says otherwise, is my point.

1 minute ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Except Dark Souls rewarded you with souls if you won the fight

Useful for leveling, something that people who were involved in the PvP side didn't do beyond a certain point.

So... no reward at all.

2 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

People could turn your argument against you and say dark souls pvp wasn't fun

Oh certainly they could. If they didn't enjoy it it's entirely up to them.

However I'm referring to the sizeable community of players who actively dueled, posted youtube videos and such like. 

A sizeable number not incentivised by reward.

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

1 minute ago, DeMonkey said:

Useful for leveling, something that people who were involved in the PvP side didn't do beyond a certain point.

So... no reward at all.

This just isn't true. People who were still leveling would PvP when they themselves had no souls. They had nothing on the line, and everything to game. I played the souls games, and I remember doing that very same thing myself. 

When I needed help on a boss in bloodborne, I called in a friend to help only to get invaded before we hit the boss room. I had enough souls on me to level up 5x over. 

This just isn't the case, and you are being purposely close minded to avoid other people's point. That's not a good arguing point for something as subjective as a competitive mode. 

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=warframe+conclave+gameplay

I see enough Conclave Videos to support that people enjoy it. I even recorded a few conclave videos myself of a few notable matches. 
 

[Grave.Knight]

Not with a peer-to-peer network. They need proper dedicated servers. That being said I don't think PVP really appeals to your average Warframe player. They'd be better off making a separate IP. Then again, considering how Amazing Eternals turned out (ironically not that amazingly)...maybe they should just stick with PVE (though I really want to see them reuse the assets from Amazing Eternals for something).

Edited February 12, 2020 by Grave.Knight