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(PS4)Akuma_Asura_

Do you think PVP can be successful ?

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On 2020-02-22 at 9:21 PM, Corvid said:

Don't need background info.

 

On 2020-02-26 at 4:47 AM, Corvid said:

You can disagree with the facts all you want, but it is indisputable that DE has, as I originally stated, put more and more work into making the PvP modes with each successive iteration. And said work has not been justified with a proportional increase in player counts.

Source that DE said work has not been justified . Stop making things up, fact is you don’t know If de put in more and more work with each iteration. DEs lack of effort and courage towards conclave could just be that they are not ready to commit to something that is different from what the game has been doing for all these years, which is PVE content. But as long as PVE content is all that is polished & released then there will be more and more harsh content droughts because the replayability of pve content is minimal at least for most people. Which causes burn out for both players and devs.

I’d argue that even destiny does PVE better then Warframe. But that’s a different conversation.

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On 2020-02-26 at 10:47 AM, Corvid said:

You can disagree with the facts all you want, but it is indisputable that DE has, as I originally stated, put more and more work into making the PvP modes with each successive iteration. And said work has not been justified with a proportional increase in player counts.

Your argument is that "Just putting in the effort" would be enough to make the mode popular. Mine is that based on historical precedent, there is no reason to believe that that is the case. Some games just don't attract a PvP crowd, and Warframe is one of them.

You either don't really understand what I've written or are trying to misrepresent it on purpose. I'm not disputing that they put in "more than before". What I did was put the total amount of time they spent on it into perspective. And issues like new players starting with only a melee instead of a full loadout are telltale sign that it wasn't exactly a lot even then. That's a fact as much as that they spent "less than before" these past months and years while the rest of the game and the company grew.

In summary: I don't dispute that, but you're not making a good point.

 

On 2020-02-26 at 10:47 AM, Corvid said:

Also, Rathuum and Index are irrelevant, as the maps were originally developed exclusively for conclave. That they were recycled at a later point and used for PvE activities does not change their original purpose. Furthermore, in any game that has both a substantial PvE and a PvP mode, the former will almost invariably have a much larger number of maps/areas, so I'm not sure why you think tilesets help your argument.

You're trying to make an argument based on time that was spent exclusively on PvP, that it would not be worth putting any more time into it again. Do you really not see how this statement goes counter to what you're trying to get across?

And again, you're showing a serious lack of perspective in all this. The PvP part in this game doesn't need to have a lot of investment, just as it doesn't need to be hugely popular with everyone. But it does need a bit of upkeep every once in a while -- which it doesn't get -- because the way it's set up is that PvE changes can bleed into PvP. The deteriorating state of it is on the devs.

The Index map rework was not made with PvP in mind, it's really just another case in point. With this kind of track record, I'd rather they stop reworking tilesets altogether, because to this date Freight Line/Core -- Corpus Ship; next to get reworked -- and especially Corpus Outpost -- because it's another coopted Index map -- are some of the best Conclave maps.

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Something I saw on the subreddit was a concept of PVP using enemy faction NPCs for loadouts.

Thought it was a cool idea, it would be much easier to balance, since the main issue of warframe PVP is how everyone can jump around like spastic crack rabbits.

Found the link: https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/f7kwtf/wild_idea_instead_of_tenno_enemy_faction_conclave/

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PVP requires lot of time to balance or ppl rage quit.  GW2 for example, had a full team only for this...

About the balance, since there's always new weapons and frames being added, I think it would be ok to "lock" some weapons from using in PVP - at least while they work on balance- so there would be no need to delay PVE content. So PVP update could come as a separate thing

To "fix" PVP itself, I think we need more map options, FUN modes (like Unreal Tournament 3) AND use tokens for worth Rewards (GOOD skins, armors, ephemeras, rivens etc) to "connect" with the PVE part.  

Also don't make ppl wait in a screen while showing each other frames, use something like searching for a party on an actual mission. I think it scares new ppl to join (when a new excalibur sees a pink Prime tennogen Rhino with butterfly wings) and make veterans bored 'cause they want to do something else while waiting lol

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Honestly, my preferred amount of effort for DE to put into PvP would be zero, Warframe is and always will be a PvE experience, any PvP component will always be a tacked on after though.  This is just not the game for PvP, I'd be extremely happy if DE announced that all PvP areas of Warframe are going to be removed and what little effort that was put into maintaining them was going to be redirected to the parts of the game that actually get played.

If you want a well built, reasonably balanced and actively played PvP experience then this is simply the wrong game for you.

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You know. I think if DE ever adds the ability to play the stalker and fight other Tenno? 

I don't think anything will ever be more successful then that lol. I will literally do nothing but invade people all day long, just to see what silly things happen. DE let me use skins on the stalker. I want to use a candy cane skin on the hate. 

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5 hours ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

You know. I think if DE ever adds the ability to play the stalker and fight other Tenno? 

I don't think anything will ever be more successful then that lol. I will literally do nothing but invade people all day long, just to see what silly things happen. DE let me use skins on the stalker. I want to use a candy cane skin on the hate. 

I've said before that a gamemode of 4v1 with the 1 playing the stalker could work, both gameplay and lorewise

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On 2020-02-27 at 6:43 AM, Sahiratu said:

PVP requires lot of time to balance

Not really the case for Conclave but I get what you are trying to say.

 

On 2020-02-27 at 6:43 AM, Sahiratu said:

About the balance, since there's always new weapons and frames being added, I think it would be ok to "lock" some weapons from using in PVP

It has been like that since 2015.

On 2020-02-27 at 6:43 AM, Sahiratu said:

AND use tokens for worth Rewards (GOOD skins, armors

We already have this in the game.

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On 2020-02-19 at 10:59 AM, (XB1)GameGhost123 said:

Maybe u should try battle royales before giving feedback about whether it would be cool or not.

i was drunk when i wrote this. py apologies

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Turns out my clan has some devout pvpers, I relayed some of the ideas presented here and on other threads, they particularly liked gne idea of playing as grineer or corpus

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On 2020-03-16 at 5:32 AM, (PS4)sdaly96 said:

Turns out my clan has some devout pvpers, I relayed some of the ideas presented here and on other threads, they particularly liked gne idea of playing as grineer or corpus

Most clans have them, we are usually just quiet about it.

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On 2019-11-20 at 1:15 PM, (XB1)COA Altair said:

because the PvP for warframe is awful

I went back and read through this thread and this post really made me think. If the PvP is unappealing to you, does that mean it is unappealing to everyone?

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14 minutes ago, (XB1)Chroma Prime said:

I went back and read through this thread and this post really made me think. If the PvP is unappealing to you, does that mean it is unappealing to everyone?

clearly not. Some people have clearly stated they enjoyed PvP. 

It is a matter of personal taste.

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7 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

clearly not. Some people have clearly stated they enjoyed PvP. 

It is a matter of personal taste.

I agree. That is why it is so upsetting when people go out of their way to say bad things about the PvP in warframe.

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7 hours ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

clearly not. Some people have clearly stated they enjoyed PvP. 

It is a matter of personal taste.

So if PvP bears no weight on what happens with the rest of Warframe, why are people so malevolent towards PvP?

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I think that there is just too many inbalances with frames,weapons, etc. For it to ever be something that most players would bother with.

This is first and foremost a third person pve instanced looter shooter/hack and slash game.

Its pretty casual for most.  I don't see de having any reason to dump alot of time in pvp or hardcore pve.

As a business deconly gains moneyvone pve or cosmetic things. Pvp isn't profitable for them. Pvp has not been given attention in years really so your beating a dead horse.

Even the old raids got dropped because most didn't do them.

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8 hours ago, (PS4)Kakurine2 said:

I think that there is just too many inbalances with frames,weapons

It was really evenly balanced for a long time up until 2017, when DE stopped working on it.
 

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On 2020-03-25 at 2:24 AM, (XB1)The Repo Man151 said:

So if PvP bears no weight on what happens with the rest of Warframe, why are people so malevolent towards PvP?

Either because they detest PvP in general and are the type of person that prefer co-op games to competitive games, or because they had a bad experience and got frustrated with it rather then practicing enough to get good. Most people who are here against it, wouldn't be playing it regardless truth be told. 

My only complaint about PvP is that sometimes I wish there were more options when it came to "Catching people". Normally I'm a great shot. But every once in awhile there will be a tenno who never fights unless they think they got the jump on you. They will perpetually flee from you forever till they escape, get energy, health or whatever and then try to engage till they flee again.... 

Otherwise I wish they would add more exclusive PvP rewards, even if it was just a Teshin Operator reward. (Having Teshin voice over mission events and details. Fake Space Mom gets old. I just want regular space mom back. ) 

 

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If I want pvp I go play plants vs zombies (yes)

Warframe just shows something I dislike about a lot of games, shoehorning pvp into a game that doesn't really work with it

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5 hours ago, (XB1)C11H22O11 said:

If I want pvp I go play plants vs zombies (yes)

Okay. That's awesome. You won't hear any complaints from anyone about your choice in games.I like that game too.

 

5 hours ago, (XB1)C11H22O11 said:

shoehorning pvp

It it really shoehorning if DE has worked on it for over 6 years now?

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No, because DE can't be successful with it. They struggle to make PvE work. PvP certainly will never be successful in WF.

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12 minutes ago, (XB1)TheLastDax said:

Okay. That's awesome. You won't hear any complaints from anyone about your choice in games.I like that game too.

 

It it really shoehorning if DE has worked on it for over 6 years now?

The shoehorning part I meant on launch, of course they had a loooooong time to make it playable but... It never happened

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Why be mad at PVP if I don't play it?  Because they waste man hours on the mode is why when they could be working on something that 99% of their playerbase cares about be it bug fixes in PVE, content in PVE, or anything in PVE really.  Shoehorned is an accurate term for the mode when it has never felt like it's a part of warframe at large.  It's akin to shoving battle royale's into games that have no business with a battle royale mode.  That's what conclave is in warframe.  A shoved in mode that isn't even popular either since the conclave playerbase is about the same number of people that did trials when trials were available/around the 1% mark.  

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