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(PS4)Akuma_Asura_

Do you think PVP can be successful ?

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I still want pvp races. Parkour races, AW races, railjack races. Operator races. 

Wait...is lunaro still functional? It's been so long. 

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The old dark sector pvp had promise in the moba sequel way it worked, adding that to pvp would probably make it a bit better

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IMO one of the best thing in this game is almost nobody do PvP and almost nobody speak about it, the game was planned to be PvE from the begining , it's still the case , and i hope it will stay like that.

Also be honest , PvP community became easily toxic in every game (not the whole community of course , but enough for make grow the % of toxic and make non-toxic player leave the game)

So imo , it's nice like that.

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6 minutes ago, PookieNumnums said:

Operator only pvp. 

I would at least try it once.

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Actually, they should remove pvp from teshin, give us better arena rooms for our dojos (perhaps simulacrum a and b room research arenas), and focus teshin on lunaro. 

Lunaro fails because of how its designed. It is based on getting to the other side as fast as possible, and spamming slap or ball smacking to interrupt your opponents. Neither of which are very team oriented, or fun really.  Lunaro should be operators against operators. Amps replaced with arcatas. Swatting replaced with actual catch not vacuum. And void dash existing but limited to one dash before a 5 or 10 second cool down.  This would of course require a bit of change to the operators movement. Perhaps an actual sprint, a slide like our warframes. 

With enticing enough rewards and a method of play that encourrages team engagement and strategy, enough players will get involved. And with pvp stuck in arenas in our dojo, would have more people inside the dojos for something other than trading. Should def still keep getting teshin rep even if its taken out of the relays. 

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With how the last few updates haven't been the best they can be, maybe trying their hand at something like this might switch things up a bit

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I'm starting to think no clan v. clan is a major contributing factor to the lack of interest in Warframe PvP. My last real PvE focused game before Warframe was the original Guild Wars. That was clearly a PvE focused game but it had a rather vibrant PvP scene, nothing crazy I think even if e-sports were as popular then to be fair. Wars between guilds were the real draw for PvP, there.

It would be simple to implement a pre-defined ELO type rating system for clan ranks. At this point, prestige is already on the line for clans and we all know prestige is the real draw for new recruits. Make it team annihilation, best of 3/5/7 rounds, have options for 2v2, 3v3, 4v4. Conclave rules and mechanics are fairly balanced but the couple... uh... 'mishaps' that have slipped in and haven't been fixed would need to be fixed before this type of ladder system can be respectable. If telos boltace/stormpath isn't removed, for example, there's no reason to not bring telos boltace to a ranked match because it's simply the best melee weapon no question (well, ok, wolf sledge questions and rightly so). This would be a "which clan abuses telos boltace + staticor + saryn the best?!" ladder. That's a major problem.

I'd be hesitant to suggest a reward scheme. It would be dependent on a few things I didn't bring up, e.g. would this be a seasonal ladder? (Well, surely.) How long would each season be? Do you need to be a certain rank/tier to participate? Will different rank/tiers have their own ladders? What about solo clans? (S.O.L. lmao.) All that said, it could be reasonable to award top ranking clans resources to their vaults (forma?) or maybe access to prestige dojo rooms or prestige research if the prestige itself isn't enough for your tastes.

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I'm going to try PVP soon. I think it can be successful if it's anywhere as fun as the old Quake II free-for-alls.

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Yeah it can be. I think they should connect it to the invasion aspect of the game and players should be either Copus or Grineer fractions.

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I've been working on conclave standing recently, and I really think the answer is a resounding "no."

PVP requires a level of balance that is completely opposed to what people like about Warframe. We love the power trip, cutting down swathes of enemies, spectacular abilities and generally feeling strong. In Conclave you have low health, low damage, your powers have stumpy range and don't hit very hard. All mods are removed except for mostly movement and exilus type modes, like zoom, magazine capacity etc. It's done because that HAS to be done for PVP to be in any way fair, but it leaves the actual fights feeling pretty dry, repetitive and more just a matter of 'who started shooting first' than anything.

There are a number of fixable issues though. First, there's no real entry level. It takes one weekly bonus to get to the rank where you can no longer use "recruit conditioning" which is basically only matched with new players to the mode. If you play for the bonuses, that's like 2 hours max. You will very quickly be against people who have played the PVP for years and will just destroy you.

Secondly, the standing gain outside of the weekly bonus is pitiful. If you actually play the mode for fun, you're not getting the rewards out of it anywhere near as efficiently as someone who just plays the daily challenges. Since it's dead the rewards are also outdated. Skins are recolours, mods can't be used outside of the mode, or are easily obtained outside it anyway, and the syandana requires regularly playing to keep its effect active.

The biggest reason why Conclave is dead and will probably stay dead is that bringing a mode back from the dead is close to impossible. As it is nobody plays so when someone is interested, they can't find a match so give up on it. If they try to revamp it, you have to re-attract everyone who actually was interested and fight the overwhelming masses who will just say "conclave's bad, don't spend time/resources on that over real content." To compare it to something recent, look at Deathgarden's release. It launched and flopped due to a largely unsatisfying style of gameplay. They spent over a year trying to keep it afloat and make enough of a significant change to relaunch, but it flopped again just as hard because at the core it just wasn't a great game that people wanted to play more of.

DE CAN put time and effort into trying to revive Conclave, but when the majority of the community has told you time and time again that it's something we don't like, and we don't want, the end result would probably be a still-dead Conclave and people annoyed that we got that over new PVE content.

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1 hour ago, anarchy753 said:

I've been working on conclave standing recently, and I really think the answer is a resounding "no."

PVP requires a level of balance that is completely opposed to what people like about Warframe. We love the power trip, cutting down swathes of enemies, spectacular abilities and generally feeling strong. In Conclave you have low health, low damage, your powers have stumpy range and don't hit very hard. All mods are removed except for mostly movement and exilus type modes, like zoom, magazine capacity etc. It's done because that HAS to be done for PVP to be in any way fair, but it leaves the actual fights feeling pretty dry, repetitive and more just a matter of 'who started shooting first' than anything.

There are a number of fixable issues though. First, there's no real entry level. It takes one weekly bonus to get to the rank where you can no longer use "recruit conditioning" which is basically only matched with new players to the mode. If you play for the bonuses, that's like 2 hours max. You will very quickly be against people who have played the PVP for years and will just destroy you.

Secondly, the standing gain outside of the weekly bonus is pitiful. If you actually play the mode for fun, you're not getting the rewards out of it anywhere near as efficiently as someone who just plays the daily challenges. Since it's dead the rewards are also outdated. Skins are recolours, mods can't be used outside of the mode, or are easily obtained outside it anyway, and the syandana requires regularly playing to keep its effect active.

The biggest reason why Conclave is dead and will probably stay dead is that bringing a mode back from the dead is close to impossible. As it is nobody plays so when someone is interested, they can't find a match so give up on it. If they try to revamp it, you have to re-attract everyone who actually was interested and fight the overwhelming masses who will just say "conclave's bad, don't spend time/resources on that over real content." To compare it to something recent, look at Deathgarden's release. It launched and flopped due to a largely unsatisfying style of gameplay. They spent over a year trying to keep it afloat and make enough of a significant change to relaunch, but it flopped again just as hard because at the core it just wasn't a great game that people wanted to play more of.

DE CAN put time and effort into trying to revive Conclave, but when the majority of the community has told you time and time again that it's something we don't like, and we don't want, the end result would probably be a still-dead Conclave and people annoyed that we got that over new PVE content.

Honestly, that's what I feel about Archwing and Railjack. I at least find Conclave better than those two modes. The core issue of such modes is that they are content islands that don't respect your progress in the main game.

Conclave would be a lot more fun if we had Grineer and Corpus bots also running around. Have it be like Titan fall where we simultaneously have PVP and PVE. Have new players being able to contribute something to the team without simply being stomped would do wonders for retention. 

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Just now, DealerOfAbsolutes said:

Honestly, that's what I feel about Archwing and Railjack. I at least find Conclave better than those two modes. The core issue of such modes is that they are content islands that don't respect your progress in the main game.

Conclave would be a lot more fun if we had Grineer and Corpus bots also running around. Have it be like Titan fall where we simultaneously have PVP and PVE. Have new players being able to contribute something to the team without simply being stomped would do wonders for retention. 

If they had bots in conclave, people could play without huge wait times. Without those wait times more people would play and there would be less bot presence anyway. It's definitely a good step to fix the mode. Railjack update just dropped and it looks exceptional, so that mode probably still has hope.

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5 minutes ago, anarchy753 said:

If they had bots in conclave, people could play without huge wait times. Without those wait times more people would play and there would be less bot presence anyway. It's definitely a good step to fix the mode. Railjack update just dropped and it looks exceptional, so that mode probably still has hope.

Conclave should also have modes more in line with the main game. Free For All and Team Deathmatch are literally just Exterminate Missions which can get boring. 

One thing a lot of people complain about is how parkour 2.0 makes hitting other players tedious, but that's because there is no incentive to hold your ground in Free for All or Team Deathmatch compared to PVE modes. The only metric of success in those game modes is kills and there is no real team work.

Adapting other classic game modes into PVP would do wonders and we already had that in Dark Sectors before the Armistice apparently. PVP was once endgame for clans. 

Sabotage/Defense

One team is tasked with destroying a defense objective with the other team defending it. This forces players into a hot zone that they won't bullet jump away from.

 

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I think pvp could be more successful if you remove the warframe abilities and only allow for the use of weapons. The warframe abilities really make pvp unbalanced.

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Allow slots to be forma multiple times (i.e. have more than one polarization on each slot), would help pvp drastically.  No way I want to have two duplicate weapons and framea to be able to mod for pve and pvp.  

Or just remove mod cost all together so we could mod pvp weapons.  Pvp shot themselves in foot by having all mods with different polarities and a forma system that punishes versatility.  

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On 2020-05-02 at 2:16 PM, Educated_Beast said:

Allow slots to be forma multiple times (i.e. have more than one polarization on each slot), would help pvp drastically.  No way I want to have two duplicate weapons and framea to be able to mod for pve and pvp.  

Or just remove mod cost all together so we could mod pvp weapons.  Pvp shot themselves in foot by having all mods with different polarities and a forma system that punishes versatility.  

You mention modding PvP weapons but I've never used more than 3-4 mods on a weapon in Conclave. At most, it was Agile Aim, Recover, and one of the reload speed mods. And the mods aren't very expensive when it comes to capacity either. Agile Aim is only 5 mod points at max rank. Of all the things to be upset about in Conclave, the modding isn't one of them.

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18 hours ago, (XB1)The Repo Man151 said:

You mention modding PvP weapons but I've never used more than 3-4 mods on a weapon in Conclave. At most, it was Agile Aim, Recover, and one of the reload speed mods. And the mods aren't very expensive when it comes to capacity either. Agile Aim is only 5 mod points at max rank. Of all the things to be upset about in Conclave, the modding isn't one of them.

If you have your favorite weapon fully forma for pve (mostly V and -), then you cannot use favorite weapon in pvp (many D).  

You can be upset with whatever you want, but I'm not keeping duplicate weapons to be able to use the pvp mods I earned. You can use whatever you want, but why even buy pvp mods if can't fit them in.  

It's a problem that updating the forma system could fix and would make everything better with more versatility for players and more forma sales for DE.

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replace invasions with warframe MOBA. squad vs squad with spawning grineer/corpus/infested minions that oppose each other. killing minions and opposing tenno gradually unlocks capacity so that your warframe, weapon, and sentinel mods activate in the order in which they are slotted, and ultimate "level" unlocks your arcanes.

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It can be, hell it has been.

But with the current status of the servers and peer to peer connection, even if you have a hard on for PvP (regardless of it's actual implementation), you are in for a world of pain.

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On 2019-11-17 at 12:38 AM, (PS4)Akuma_Asura_ said:

So I’ve been around for dark sectors and obviously conclave . Dark sectors/Solar Rail conflicts were pretty well received by the community and people actually enjoyed participating in it back then, but with conclave it’s like 1-5% of the community even play conclave regularly, it’s truly unpopular. So I wanted to discuss so you think PVP in Warframe can ever be successful again in Warframe ? & if so how can it be fixed ? I personally feel like DE should have a team that specifically works on PVP 

Yes, I think PvP can be successful...here is what could make PvP in Waframe successful:

  • Be able for form up to 256 player fleets
  • Form fleets of dps logi, and brawlers ships
  • Fight capital sized ships that have support ships to help defend them
  • Have zones where PVP is expected and encouraged
  • Rename Warframe to EVE Online

 

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Le 17/11/2019 à 07:38, (PS4)Akuma_Asura_ a dit :

So I’ve been around for dark sectors and obviously conclave . Dark sectors/Solar Rail conflicts were pretty well received by the community and people actually enjoyed participating in it back then, but with conclave it’s like 1-5% of the community even play conclave regularly, it’s truly unpopular. So I wanted to discuss so you think PVP in Warframe can ever be successful again in Warframe ? & if so how can it be fixed ? I personally feel like DE should have a team that specifically works on PVP 

1-5% is an exaggeration, more like 0.1%-0.5%.

PVP at best can be a side fun thing that puts everyone on the same level, no mods or frame abilities. Other than that it's pointless in a game that is centered around PVE.

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