Do you think PVP can be successful ?

[GreyDeath789]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Yes. Having 0 experience, 0 interest, and 0 knowledge makes your opinion pretty worthless.

Almost like you don't know anything about the subject, don't care about the subject, and have no experience on the subject.

Is a heart surgeon, or a nasa astronaut going to listen about what a clueless 45 year thinks about heart surgery, or rocket aerodynamics?

The answer is no.

Having 1/3 makes your opinion tolerable. If somebody has interest in PvP but has never done it, I can at least humor them, or explain to them how it works.

Having 2/3 makes them have a decent opinion. They at least know a bit about how it works.

Having 3/3 actually gives them a credible opinion, as they have personally experienced PvP, and can tell you the pro's and cons of it.

For example, you could ask me anything about PvP and I would have an answer for you. I can tell you what I enjoyed, what things I hated, and what I think made warframe pvp the best.

I even have recorded PvP footage of my best moments. I enjoyed it enough to save it for later.
 

Not a single comment you have posted has improved the thread. Grouping you with the others actually makes a lot of sense considering you are just wasting everyone's time when they read your comments.

Your current comments aren't worth reading. I don't know why I would waste my time.

You won't even give me new ideas when I ask for them.

Yes, Being open to new ideas is being called "Open Minded."

See, you criticized me of being "close minded."

So in response, I informed you that I am open to new ideas, however, I have not heard a new idea. I think K-drive races, and K-drive competitions could really easily be successful. But instead you call me "close minded" when I don't value opinions of people who will never play PvP.

Thus I informed you, that you are a simpleton, as a moderator has already addressed this topic on what is good feedback. You are taking this topic further away from PvP, while ignoring everything the moderator has mentioned on this thread.
 

Still haven't read my posts I see...it is okay...too busy with devolving the thread. I get it...everyone needs goals.

Claiming I haven't provided ideas...is simply inaccurate. Also, I disagree that not a single comment has improved the thread...you simply haven't bothered to read my comments it seems.

Trying to use the moderators post as some form of defense (or is it an attack) isn't helping your position.

Keep up with the name calling all while not bothering to read my posts...it is expected at this point.

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

4 minutes ago, GreyDeath789 said:

when I said you needed experience, interest, and knowledge I mean exactly all three...oh wait...no I meant any of the three.

Go find exactly where I said you needed all three.

I'll wait. Go on.
 

5 minutes ago, GreyDeath789 said:

Someone said "PvP is dead, why bother?" yet there is a pulse...so it isn't dead. End of discussion. That person is wrong. Because...well...it isn't dead.

Yes. I'm glad to see you have a good grasp of the blatantly obvious.

Round of applause for you understanding the most obvious part. Now if you could only understand why I don't care about a person's opinion who has only repeated that PvP is dead, has never offered any constructive criticism, and who has no experience and interest in PvP.

7 minutes ago, GreyDeath789 said:

If someone said "Raids are dead, why bother?" it is pretty easy to claim they were not dead. Someone ran raids...yet DE decided for some reason it was best to remove raids from the game. Was it because the player base played raids so little that DE wanted to save money instead of supporting them?

Is PvP any different?

Actually raids were removed and stated to be worked on. Then Raids were turned into raid bosses. Eidolons, profit taker and the exploiter orb are all raid bosses.

If this thread was "Could raids be successful"

Saying "no, raids are dead." isn't a proper answer. But you giving smart answers, isn't really a thing. I could tell you both why raids, and PvP could be successful, because both, already have been successful.

Goodnight.

[GreyDeath789]

4 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Grey please. Could you please stop. Don't sabotage our thread, please. 

Lets not look at me as the reason for any sabotage. You and I have discussed the thread focus tonight and we appear to be in agreement on how to move forward. This poster seems to feel it is necessary to insult and dismiss people that don't hold the same opinion as they do...which isn't improving the thread one bit.

 

 

[Felsagger]

1 minute ago, GreyDeath789 said:

Lets not look at me as the reason for any sabotage. You and I have discussed the thread focus tonight and we appear to be in agreement on how to move forward. This poster seems to feel it is necessary to insult and dismiss people that don't hold the same opinion as they do...which isn't improving the thread one bit.

 

I walked away from many insults on these forums many times. He has his valid reasons. You have yours. Lets keep the thread useful for the discussion. I'm only asking that. 

[Aldain]

...I didn't even know it was possible to sabotage a thread that has been necro'd for nearly a year to the point where it is almost unrecognizable.

[Felsagger]

Maybe people are still interested in PvP. Maybe some of us want some PvP in War Frame. Is that a sin? 

[RamonLLLL]

57 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Grey please. Could you please stop. Don't sabotage our thread, please. 

Ironic, because you made the thread on Pablo and AI your entire forum rep farm.

[Impulse_Nine]

For what it's worth, I migrated to this game from TF2, so I was always pretty interested in dark sectors / conclave. I do think it could work, but you would need to revert back to parkour 1.0 (minus the zoren-copters obviously) and probably some other changes to reduce the edge given by greater skill. I think a lot of the modern day problems of warframe actually stem from parkour 2.0. Don't get me wrong its mad fun flying through the tiles at high speed, but it trivialises much of PvE and makes PvP a headache even for people who aren't completely green.

In other PvP games I've played (Planetside 2, TF2), mobility is massively reduced and an experienced player tends to win more through better use of ambush and psychology (for instance, making it appear you are somewhere you aren't). From what I've seen of conclave here it was *mostly* about the ability to maintain accuracy while pinballing off the walls- then they methodically nerfed abilities and AoE weapons- at which point maintaining accuracy while pinballing off the walls essentially became a prerequisite for taking part in any other aspect of the game. Thats when I left PvP, because thats just not something I'm good at, nor enjoying learning to be better at.

But if warframe mobility was greatly reduced, yeah, I'd probably make an effort to come back. Of course though if the community has gotten so toxic people are going to DM me death threats the times I win, then maybe you'd also need to hide user names and ban pvp chat. But these things can be done, it's not impossible.

[SneakyErvin]

6 hours ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Constructive Criticism is about what you can improve.

Which is what I've actually done. Dedicated servers is the key to successful PvP. It cant get more constructive than that, it is the one foundation that the mode needs in order to even be considered going forward and being used by more players. If that becomes a thing, which it very likely wont, then a discussion on how PvP can be improved regarding the surrounding in-game mechanics may be worth something. Someone already came up with the perfect idea for conclave in this thread just a page or so back. 

Homogenized frames/loadouts so everyone is on equal footing, a true Teshin training scenario where Tenno compete and train. It would also make balancing so much easier without having to consider hundreds of different seperate skills and thousands of different combinations. Ontop of this they can add a stamina system to limit mobility more. That would lead to tactical gameplay that comes down to player versus player skill and knowledge. It would also let them tweak TTK and TTL properly so it actually turns into a more serious setting similar to the real shooters on the market. It would also let them tweak weapons from being hitscan in 99% of the cases to having actual bullet velocity, like most other serious shooters on the market.

Mods could be made up of QoL stats only, much like grips, scopes, barrels etc. are in BF. Where a long iron barrel wont automatically mean you shoot harder, just that you have longer before damage drop of kicks in, or a vertical grip not meaning pinpoint accuracy, just less spread or recoil. It would be very easy to implement that with mods.

edit: Dedicated servers would also allow DE to make bigger PvP modes that involve more players per side.

Edited June 7, 2020 by SneakyErvin

[Histori]

I think large amount players love this game including me cuz is not based about PVP.

[Felsagger]

6 hours ago, RamonLeeYJ said:

Ironic, because you made the thread on Pablo and AI your entire forum rep farm.

 

Ironic because I want a game that is not aimed only at spammers, lemmings, casuals, scrubs and nubs.

 

Pardon me.  .

Edited June 7, 2020 by Felsagger

[Felsagger]

2 hours ago, Histori said:

I think large amount players love this game including me cuz is not based about PVP.

War Frame is not based around PvP. 

 

But War Frame can have a good PvP mode for many of us. 

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

Love how desperate people are getting on trying to keep a echo chamber going, im apparently a saboteur and a troll cause I'm discussing with the thread title. You might need a refresher 9n the title it isn't Conclave is gumdrops and rainbows threads it's can PVP be successful? And I'm on it can't be successful cause of extremely low interest from player base and developers.

Conclave does not deserve any improvements, i rather have content made that for the hundred of thousands of player and not a handful. It's been 6 years since pvp was introduced to warframe and yet it has this horrifically low player count, it's time to admit pvp doesn't work. Warframe is designed for pve clear and simple forced a pvp game mode is just a mess as warframe's parkour and way how sheild gating works makes for horrendous time to kill and only a few meta loadouts will be used to actually be able to do anything in a match.

DE seems to be giving up on convlave it's clear as day, hasn't been any real update to the mode for 4 years and they're shifting the mods over to nightwave. It's for the better and maybe tenshin can be moved to system that players can be more familiar with and make his story presence more impactful.

But I'm just going to be called saboteur and troll cause I dare partake in discussion on a thread that's in General Discussion.

[Felsagger]

32 minutes ago, (XB1)The Neko Otaku said:

Love how desperate people are getting on trying to keep a echo chamber going, im apparently a saboteur and a troll cause I'm discussing with the thread title. You might need a refresher 9n the title it isn't Conclave is gumdrops and rainbows threads it's can PVP be successful? And I'm on it can't be successful cause of extremely low interest from player base and developers.

This thread is to motivate interest. If the interest is low, c'est la vie. We want to change that. If you are not interested you don't need to post in it. It is that simple. 

 

32 minutes ago, (XB1)The Neko Otaku said:

Conclave does not deserve any improvements,

The rest of us, even a minority, who likes it believes otherwise. 

32 minutes ago, (XB1)The Neko Otaku said:

i rather have content made that for the hundred of thousands of player and not a handful.

Fine you are not interested in the thread and PvP, we get that, then why you keep posting?

32 minutes ago, (XB1)The Neko Otaku said:

It's been 6 years sincepvp was introduced to warframe and yet it has this horrifically low player count, it's time to admit pvp doesn't work. Warframe is designed for pve clear and simple forced a pvp game mode is just a mess as warframe's parkour and way how sheild gating works makes for horrendous time to kill and only a few meta loadouts will be used to actually be able to do anything in a match.

Scrubs don't like getting their butts owned. I perfectly understand that. PvP does work and has a future. However it is not for everybody. It needs development to work. I enjoy playing it and getting better. PvP doesn't need to be forced of course. Should not be obligatory of course, it is an option for us to enjoy. We want this content to sharpen our skills and understand the parkour system of the game instead of power tripping over the woods spamming abilities ad nauseam.  

32 minutes ago, (XB1)The Neko Otaku said:

DE seems to be giving up on convlave it's clear as day, hasn't been any real update to the mode for 4 years and they're shifting the mods over to nightwave. It's for the better and maybe tenshin can be moved to system that players can be more familiar with and make his story presence more impactful.

No one disagrees with accessibility of these mods. That is a better move. However we want to test our skills. 

32 minutes ago, (XB1)The Neko Otaku said:

But I'm just going to be called saboteur and troll cause I dare partake in discussion on a thread that's in General Discussion.

You came in to disrupt. Simple. 

But you are free to do so. 

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

14 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

You came in to disrupt.

difference in opinion isn't disruption, this is incredibly closed minded thinking you keep displaying to keep your precious echo chamber going. PvP can't be successful in a pve centric game as it will come off as a broken forced mess. If you want pvp play a different game

[Felsagger]

On 2020-06-07 at 5:40 PM, (XB1)The Neko Otaku said:

difference in opinion isn't disruption

Yes difference in opinion is not a disruption but your insistence telling that PvP is dead in this thread is. 

Quote

PvP can't be successful in a pve centric game as it will come off as a broken forced mess. If you want pvp play a different game

I have different PvP games. You don't need to tell me what I have to do or not. You came here trolling and is more than obvious. 

We know the activity of players in PvP, we know the history, we know the status of the situation. Do you know why? Because we play the mode, you don't. This game offers a lot for many of us. Don't tell us what we must enjoy and what we don't. 

[OniDax]

I think that what PvP needs to become more popular is what the rest of the game needs to just become better: better movement system (less floaty movement, more natural), better animations (natural, humanlike, IK-based running, sprinting, and walking animations), and improved gunplay (by that, I mean how we handle primary and secondary weapons, how we move with them, how the camera changes based on different actions, etc.). In addition to that, I think PvP needs two more things: 1) game modes based on the original PvE missions (specifically Exterminate/TDM, Defense, Mobile Defense, Capture, and Rescue) and 2) much more of a focus on gunplay over parkour and abilities (perhaps abilities can be unlocked based on kills, making abilities COD-like killstreaks).

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

27 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

 

Jesus the thread isn't called conclave player support group it's called Do you think PVP can be successful? Im answering the question but you keep strawmaning that I'm being distrupful or a "troll" for partaking in discussion on the General Discussion thread. But you'll strawman some more like ever other conclave player because they can't face the facts that the mode is deader than the vacuum of space.

[Felsagger]

On 2020-06-07 at 8:29 PM, (XB1)The Neko Otaku said:

Jesus the thread isn't called conclave player support group it's called Do you think PVP can be successful?

 

You stated that the PvP will not be successful. Takes one post. We are interested on the things that can make it successful. 

[Felsagger]

People are interested in a PvP on a game that has certain particularities that other PvP doesn't have. The Parkour system and the game modes provides a plethora of possibilities. We want to see them flourish and we are interested on what the game offers. There are game modes that can be translated to PvP. The suggestion of private servers will help the game mode in the PS4 and the next Ps5 community. 

PvP gives another level of awareness where the player depends on panoptic vision and the four Ps. Position, preservation, position and preference. The game depends directly on extrinsic game play because the player has fun pulling off acrobatic movement on tight positions. The hybrid nature of the game, the 42 plus 22 frames provides lots of fun despite the possible imbalances. 

The speed and reaction time demands more skill than any other game because the parkour toolkit makes frames hop over all the walls. The experience is truly three dimensional when we speak about the level. The awareness is much higher and the intensity of pursuit is more satisfying than many other games out there on the same genre. There are many games on the PvP genre that provides other experience but this game has attributes that other developers will not even dare to tinker. 

The PvP was in a decline because there was no work in it. It remained basic and the dedicated servers is a missing feature in the PS4 community. The PvP serves as a contingency and as a buffer when there is content drought. This helps retain a portion of players in the game environment. Lunaro was amazing but it didn't sell. The same happened with the conception of the PvP. We saw an attempt with Dark sectors that happened to be an outstanding idea. DE simply dropped it taking another direction. 

We know War Frame as a PvE game but we never experienced recently as a PvEvP game. Halo 5 gave a taste of it and it worked wonders, obviously the game is built for it. DE left the version of PvP because it still has activity and retain a small number of players waiting for new content. At the same time we explore other aspects of the game giving DE better ideas of the Parkour. PvP helps us give them better ideas on how the Parkour can improve further because in a PvP match we are fully aware of it. 

 

See, we have reasons.  

[Kontrollo]

On 2020-06-05 at 3:00 AM, stormy505 said:

There really isn't a logical reason to invest development time into pvp content in Warframe. Imagine a vegan restaurant trying to design a burger to sell to it's consumer base. Regardless of how amazing the burger is, because the consumer base is made up of 99.9% vegans, they won't have any interest in the burger.

You'd be surprised -- ever heard of the Impossible Burger? 😉

...Never mind, someone else already mentioned it, that's what I get for just skimming through the pages here. It's been a while since I posted.

On 2020-06-06 at 1:23 PM, SneakyErvin said:

If you refer to the lack of dedicated servers DE said in the dedicated server setup thread that it wouldnt be possible.

Quote

Due to the networking architecture of the console environment, for the foreseeable future, Dedicated Servers will be restricted to PC users and will not be brought over to consoles- sorry!

This is because DE arent hosting them, the players are. So in order for it to ever be a thing on console, either DE would need to pay for it or some server providers (like those used for CoD, Battlefield etc.) would need to provide the service and the clans/players would need to rent them. Which I'm not sure DE is onboard with since that would mean pure profit at no real cost for those hosting services since the game client is free.

Consoles do have rented servers for CoD and those other games right, you arent compeltely backwoods with cups and shoestrings only I hope?

I remember you. From back when we had a conversation about Dedicated Servers in the Conclave Feedback subforum, and you moved the goalposts from "there are no dedicated servers" to "no real dedicated servers".

At least we're now at a point we can talk about what's there, so that's progress. But I still feel like you don't quite get the pros and cons of the implementation we have here.

And yes, it's true that the consoles don't have them, but read more closely there: "... for the foreseeable future, Dedicated Servers will be restricted to PC users ..." A statement made years ago and it's not set in stone, either. I, for one, hope they'll evaluate that again -- and even if not for PvP, then at least for when they reintroduce Trials. I was there when we didn't haven them, and the Dedicated Servers on PC had improved the situation tremendously when they got introduced.

[SneakyErvin]

On 2020-06-07 at 9:12 PM, Kontrollo said:

I remember you. From back when we had a conversation about Dedicated Servers in the Conclave Feedback subforum, and you moved the goalposts from "there are no dedicated servers" to "no real dedicated servers".

At least we're now at a point we can talk about what's there, so that's progress. But I still feel like you don't quite get the pros and cons of the implementation we have here.

And yes, it's true that the consoles don't have them, but read more closely there: "... for the foreseeable future, Dedicated Servers will be restricted to PC users ..." A statement made years ago and it's not set in stone, either. I, for one, hope they'll evaluate that again -- and even if not for PvP, then at least for when they reintroduce Trials. I was there when we didn't haven them, and the Dedicated Servers on PC had improved the situation tremendously when they got introduced.

In order for it to be available on console the consoles would need to be designed in a way so they can act as servers, that doesnt seem to be part of the next gen even. So after those are released another 5 years or so will pass for the next gen after that. Players need to host them, that just isnt an option for console, and since we dont have and wont get crossplay there wont be that option either, to host it with a newbie account on PC and play it on your console. It is out of DE's hands really since the opportunities of a PC just arent there on a console.

Also, that discussion wasnt on the conclave forums, it was just another general discussion thread about PvP in general or if it was in one of the several threads in GD about dedicated servers as a whole. And I'm still of the opinion that there are "dedicated servers" and dedicated servers, not saying that "dedicated servers" cants be good if the guy that has made it has the hardware, knowhow and connection for it. I'm just saying they are far more hit and miss compared to rented real dedicated servers. And DE also gives a heads up that hosting for more than 8 players i.e 1 servers is not a good idea to do per PC.

[Kontrollo]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

In order for it to be available on console the consoles would need to be designed in a way so they can act as servers, that doesnt seem to be part of the next gen even. ...

Alright, how much do you actually know about these things work on the tech level? Because with a sentence like that I strongly feel like you don't know what's what. How exactly do you think people connect to other people's games in -- let's say -- PvE?

 

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

... Also, that discussion wasnt on the conclave forums, it was just another general discussion thread about PvP in general or if it was in one of the several threads in GD about dedicated servers as a whole. And I'm still of the opinion that there are "dedicated servers" and dedicated servers, not saying that "dedicated servers" cants be good if the guy that has made it has the hardware, knowhow and connection for it. I'm just saying they are far more hit and miss compared to rented real dedicated servers. And DE also gives a heads up that hosting for more than 8 players i.e 1 servers is not a good idea to do per PC.

Pretty sure the one I'm talking about was in Conclave Feedback, or at least it ended up there, and it was where we had that discussion. But that's been months ago and is beside the point. The point was that you went from "no dedicated servers" to "no real dedicated servers". I don't remember a lot of details of past conversations that far back, but that is something that has stuck with me.

Can you tell me what exactly the problem with these servers is that they don't count as "real" servers? Is it just that they're hit and miss (hardware, knowhow, connection)? Because there are a some guys who have been hosting them for years, and even hosting multiple instances all the time. The players are very grateful for those guys, btw. Also, can you tell me what problems they do address, and in what way they help?

To be quite honest, I really think you can't properly answer these questions.

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

13 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Which is what I've actually done.

Wrong.

You've said "PvP is dead" about a million times, and a moderator, specifically quoted your feedback as unhelpful.

Maybe learn to read? That moderator was talking specifically to you.

Having dedicated servers are nice, but I have enjoyed warframe PvP from day 1 without dedicated servers. I've had plenty of lag free duels, conclave matches and lunaro.

You might know this if you... you know. Had actually played one of these things once. You really don't understand how little your opinion means to me.

[(PSN)Akuma_Asura_]

14 hours ago, Histori said:

I think large amount players love this game including me cuz is not based about PVP.

Thats the reason why you love warframe ? Because it’s not based on PvP? Then do you love animal crossing just as much warframe ?