Do you think PVP can be successful ?

[(PSN)Akuma_Asura_]

4 hours ago, (XB1)COA Altair said:

Warframe has a reputation, and that reputation is being a PvE game.  I wager most people on the outside looking in don't even know conclave exists and they gauge their interest in this game based on what they see PvE wise.  Most people who buy prime access I wager have never played a single conclave match of any mode, or they played it a few times and then left it behind permanently because the PvP for warframe is awful and if you really want to play a PvP based game you're better off looking at CoD, overwatch, or any number of games that emphasize online PvP before everything else.  

Those are some big wagers lol I’ve bought  a lot of prime access & I use to play conclave a lot 

[(PSN)Akuma_Asura_]

9 hours ago, (XB1)Saint Nasim said:

Didn't that one guy used to be a prominent conclave player who made numerous montages for conclave?

Edit: 

 nope. different guy with a similar name. Still, that one guy has almost as many viewers as all of the people streaming warframe combined.

That’s amazing ... I think another problem with conclave is that the skill gap is WAY to high, us casuals struggle Fighting people who are this good at parkour . I think a way to bring the skill gap down a little would be to bring back stamina for conclave . So you just don’t get dominated by people who this amazing at parkour 

[Mikaer88]

First they have to fix PVP damage, like add PVP DR stat similar to WoW.

Second, Stalker Mode PVP, similar to Dark Souls invasion and opt-in of course. While doing missions and if you have a beacon of some sort, will let others invade your instance and wreck havok. Could be fun with a rank system plus exclusive pvp prizes.

[General-Pacman]

I think the main problem with conclave resides on the inherent complexity of the warframes, the wide variety of skills/stats each one of them has, and the difficulty of finding a good balance between all of them in a pvp environment; and of course, the fact that just a little percentage of the playerbase actively plays it. Since most of DE's time and efforts are put into PvE, maybe a way to make PvP more viable could be to make it more simplistic. For example, a pvp mode without warframes at all (we could have something like a character exclusive to conclave, with a generic outfit like the ones used by the guards on the relays) but keeping parkour and weapons, all of them with their base stats; and that should be it, plain and simple. That way you take the warframes balance hell out of the equation, and perhaps just a little tweak to the weapons could do the trick.

I'm not implying that this would be a better or more fun version of conclave, but since DE won't put much effort into it, i find it way more viable than a full, correct balance to what we already have. 

Edited November 21, 2019 by General-Pacman

[Gentleman_Bird]

2 hours ago, General-Pacman said:

I think the main problem with conclave resides on the inherent complexity of the warframes, the wide variety of skills/stats each one of them has, and the difficulty of finding a good balance between all of them in a pvp environment; and of course, the fact that just a little percentage of the playerbase actively plays it. Since most of DE's time and efforts are put into PvE, maybe a way to make PvP more viable could be to make it more simplistic. For example, a pvp mode without warframes at all (we could have something like a character exclusive to conclave, with a generic outfit like the ones used by the guards on the relays) but keeping parkour and weapons, all of them with their base stats; and that should be it, plain and simple. That way you take the warframes balance hell out of the equation, and perhaps just a little tweak to the weapons could do the trick.

I'm not implying that this would be a better or more fun version of conclave, but since DE won't put much effort into it, i find it way more viable than a full, correct balance to what we already have. 

Here's an idea, have a conclave exclusive warframe that everyone uses, and its abilities can be customized using augment mods. That creates a lot less to keep track of, and newbies won't be locked out of playstyles from hard to obtain frames.

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

13 hours ago, General-Pacman said:

I think the main problem with conclave resides on the inherent complexity of the warframes, the wide variety of skills/stats each one of them has, and the difficulty of finding a good balance between all of them in a pvp environment; and of course, the fact that just a little percentage of the playerbase actively plays it. Since most of DE's time and efforts are put into PvE, maybe a way to make PvP more viable could be to make it more simplistic. For example, a pvp mode without warframes at all (we could have something like a character exclusive to conclave, with a generic outfit like the ones used by the guards on the relays) but keeping parkour and weapons, all of them with their base stats; and that should be it, plain and simple. That way you take the warframes balance hell out of the equation, and perhaps just a little tweak to the weapons could do the trick.

I'm not implying that this would be a better or more fun version of conclave, but since DE won't put much effort into it, i find it way more viable than a full, correct balance to what we already have. 

Trust me, the issue does not lie in the "complexity" of the frames. It has to deal with weapon balancing. DE can disable/enable weapons and frames at will in conclave, theyve done it before and that is why their current inaction is so baffling. Warframe balance has rarely been an issue in conclave, the last time warframe balance was an issue in conclave was when Khora was released.

[Okami_Amaterasu]

It could be if DE spent even a little bit of time with any kind of balance pass. In it's current state it's almost unplayable, which sucks. Warframe's movement system is so unique and fun, and Conclave lets you take it to the max, along with the maps being more well suited for said movement system. (Jupiter is a good example of a PvE map built for this parkour system).

[Atsia]

22 hours ago, Mikaer88 said:

Second, Stalker Mode PVP, similar to Dark Souls invasion and opt-in of course. While doing missions and if you have a beacon of some sort, will let others invade your instance and wreck havok. Could be fun with a rank system plus exclusive pvp prizes.

Note, you'll have to be happy invading the same people over and over since, by DE's own admission, anything resembling Stalker mode is gonna be dead on arrival unless it ships without an kind of opt-in.

[Mikaer88]

3 minutes ago, Atsia said:

Note, you'll have to be happy invading the same people over and over since, by DE's own admission, anything resembling Stalker mode is gonna be dead on arrival unless it ships without an kind of opt-in.

People could be lured in if they get the rewards right, rewards that makes you really stand out from the rest.

[Atsia]

15 minutes ago, Mikaer88 said:

People could be lured in if they get the rewards right, rewards that makes you really stand out from the rest.

That's not a good thing either. That just turns the complaints to having to slog through PvP just to get "good" rewards, like what has happened for almost every PvP event DE has done.

[Kontrollo]

1 hour ago, Atsia said:

That's not a good thing either. That just turns the complaints to having to slog through PvP just to get "good" rewards, like what has happened for almost every PvP event DE has done.

Have you seen the hundreds of pages of "feedback" about e.g. Nightwave back in spring and now the Kuva Liches? That argument is pretty much moot with this community.

 

Not that I disagree in principle, and it has been confirmed you'd have to opt for Stalker mode.

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

4 hours ago, Atsia said:

That's not a good thing either. That just turns the complaints to having to slog through PvP just to get "good" rewards, like what has happened for almost every PvP event DE has done.

>oh no I actually have to play the game to get the content I want

Whatever will the community do? How will they recover from this devastating blow?

[Paradoxity]

4 hours ago, Mikaer88 said:

People could be lured in if they get the rewards right, rewards that makes you really stand out from the rest.

Doubt it. We've already seen that cosmetics alone can't bring people to PvP, and there's nothing they're gonna be able to lock behind PvP that isn't cosmetics without causing a riot. People still fundamentally view Warframe  as a  PvE game, locking PvE content behind PvP isn't gonna go well. 

2 hours ago, Kontrollo said:

Have you seen the hundreds of pages of "feedback" about e.g. Nightwave back in spring and now the Kuva Liches? That argument is pretty much moot with this community.

Worth noting Nightwave now is pretty different than the launch of S.1 and that even Kuva liches are slowly getting... less worse kinda (Yes, they're still bad, but given the hype train is fully engaged for railjack, they're prolly just gonna be archwinged). We could go on about how many people engage with either piece of content, but that's probably well outside the scope of the discussion here. 

[Gentleman_Bird]

5 hours ago, Atsia said:

Note, you'll have to be happy invading the same people over and over since, by DE's own admission, anything resembling Stalker mode is gonna be dead on arrival unless it ships without an kind of opt-in.

I'm very interested to see how Doom Eternal does it.

[CarrotSalad]

 

51 minutes ago, (XB1)The Repo Man151 said:

Whatever will the community do? How will they recover from this devastating blow?

They'll get toxic, exploitative or just cut out that portion altogether. From my experience in other games toxic normally comes in the number 1 biggest issue. Some completionists will do it for rewards, others will win trade, some will just setup bots or dummies.

Its why Blade and Souls faction system was completely dead within 3 months. People who didnt want PVP looked for the quickest ways to the rewards. That ruined it for the PVP crowd as they were'nt getting any satisfaction from people who just stopped and suicided. Meanwhile most clans/groups simply setup dummies/bots/afk and left them for easy reward farms.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

I like the PvP but, admittedly, I've never been good with PvP games. I do have a theory however:

The warframes, and their mechanics, makes the experience too fast and too much of a crap shoot for many players I've chatted with. "It's too fast paced". However, say that if DE were to allow only the adult tenno, such as in Duviri, with more mobility than the current operators and the ability to use MOST guns in the game, then it could work nicely. The thought is to

A) reduce the elevation of the stages, focusing on more of a CoD mobility system.

B) minimize weapon modding to exilus style mods only. No damage adders whatsoever. Also limit weapon types.

C) Make shield mods available but as a min-max setup, i.e. weak shields but extremely fast recharging. Armor upgrades boost health but decreases speed.

D) Have a camo color scheme for the operators and weapons but keep it exclusive to PvP until a top tier trophy is earned. 

E) Mobility is restricted to slides, rolls, single jumps, running that's faster than operators but significantly slower than warframes, and peeking.

F) Design it as an FPS. 

[Kontrollo]

10 hours ago, Paradoxity said:

...

Worth noting Nightwave now is pretty different than the launch of S.1 and that even Kuva liches are slowly getting... less worse kinda (Yes, they're still bad, but given the hype train is fully engaged for railjack, they're prolly just gonna be archwinged). We could go on about how many people engage with either piece of content, but that's probably well outside the scope of the discussion here. 

That's all beside the point.

I'm just saying that no matter what they introduce or change, a part of the community will complain about it. At least for me, that doesn't come as a surprise, either -- the game tries to have a broad appeal and diverse playerbase, so the players' preferences and progression are on a wide spectrum. The devs simply can't do right by everyone anymore, at this point.

 

As for rewards, they don't have to be unique/exclusive, anyway. It just needs to be structured in a way that doing an activity is somewhat worthwhile compared to others. There are a few resources that are still valuable to everyone. Things like Credits, Endo (Ayatans), Nitain, Kuva, Ducats, Forma, Potatoes, etc.

I'm especially in favour of tradeable rewards. So people can just play what they like and trade for what they want.

Edited November 22, 2019 by Kontrollo
improved

[White_Matter]

Warframe

PVP

Pick one.

[TheGuyver]

I don't think it will ever be successful, not with the way it's set up right now. I would have liked if they kept the stamina system strictly for pvp. 

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

On 2019-11-20 at 6:23 PM, Mikaer88 said:

First they have to fix PVP damage, like add PVP DR stat similar to WoW.

Second, Stalker Mode PVP, similar to Dark Souls invasion and opt-in of course. While doing missions and if you have a beacon of some sort, will let others invade your instance and wreck havok. Could be fun with a rank system plus exclusive pvp prizes.

What exactly is wrong with the damage in conclave? Ignoring the recent changes brought about my the old blood, I mean. All the weapons seem to work fine. The weapon that I can imagine needing a tune up in the embolist.

[Mikaer88]

12 hours ago, (XB1)The Repo Man151 said:

What exactly is wrong with the damage in conclave? Ignoring the recent changes brought about my the old blood, I mean. All the weapons seem to work fine. The weapon that I can imagine needing a tune up in the embolist.

I'm referring to how pvp damage and skills can be implemented on a mission in connection to the stalker mode. Everything in conclave is controlled, unlike in missions when you mix in pve with pvp, hahaha, imagine the toxicity and the fun.

Edited November 24, 2019 by Mikaer88
Made my point extra clear

[(PSN)Cargan2016]

On 2019-11-20 at 1:15 PM, (XB1)COA Altair said:

Warframe has a reputation, and that reputation is being a PvE game.  I wager most people on the outside looking in don't even know conclave exists and they gauge their interest in this game based on what they see PvE wise.  Most people who buy prime access I wager have never played a single conclave match of any mode, or they played it a few times and then left it behind permanently because the PvP for warframe is awful and if you really want to play a PvP based game you're better off looking at CoD, overwatch, or any number of games that emphasize online PvP before everything else.  

I have not been successfully put in a conclave match in over 2 years every single time I have tried just for change of pace I end up being in match solo with no one on opposing team

[Flameduel]

On 2019-11-16 at 11:38 PM, (PS4)Akuma_Asura_ said:

So I’ve been around for dark sectors and obviously conclave . Dark sectors/Solar Rail conflicts were pretty well received by the community and people actually enjoyed participating in it back then, but with conclave it’s like 1-5% of the community even play conclave regularly, it’s truly unpopular. So I wanted to discuss so you think PVP in Warframe can ever be successful again in Warframe ? & if so how can it be fixed ? I personally feel like DE should have a team that specifically works on PVP 

This game is a PvE overpowering focus game vs Destiny 2 being a PvE balanced focused game. The big difference why D2 does a better job naturally as a PVP game because they do not have to balance the game around PvP because the whole game is balanced around the same combat system, making PvP more naturally balanced. Warframe is an overpowering focused so PvP on it's own would be (while funny in some cases as PvP in Simulacrum is concerned) not exactly a... competitive... system. This would create a niche thing that looses it's charm after a short while, which is why DE balanced PvP separate from PvE which is a good and bad thing. It is good because it is not completely nonsense, but it is bad because it is not the same feel at all to the focus of the main game would be and it would be better to just make a new game entirely, Frame Fighter comes to mind of people enjoying it and wouldn't mind having it be a conclave replacement. Destiny 2 does however have a solution to this problem which is called Gambit, and before people complain because I am not 100% the entire opinions on this gamemode I don't necessarily mean a copy paste of gambit is what we need but a PvP of a similar concept. Gambit is a PvP mode where you fight PvE mobs the same you would do in a regular mission, and the faster in speed and quantity you kill enemies the faster and quantity of difficulty increase for the enemy team's area of PvE enemies become. The two teams would have separate battle fields killing separate enemies to affect the other team's field. This makes it so we can have the PvP mode balanced around the PvE main game instead of being Balanced around itself.

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

No. It can't, simple as that. This game wasn't brought up with PVP in mind and it's a playstyle only a handful of people can adapt to successfully, meaning too many people will be stomped or just not be interested in losing constantly to keep up with it.

The other problem is how powers work differently in PVP compared to PVE. Same with weapons. If I can't expect a weapon or frame to act the same as it does in PVE then it creates this weird alternate dimension that people aren't interested in learning.

Host migration and really do I need to go any further?

[Fire2box]

Nah Warframe was built on PvE and I can only assume DE feels the same way with the lack of content. Even when DE added a new one, frame fighter it was quickly forgotten by everyone including DE themselves. Are new frames even added to it?