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No1NParticular31

Compromise on the Lich mercy system?

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We all keep seeing threads where people are mad because they feel forced to attack their Lich when they don't want to (still not sure why) or yelled at for not doing it. We have also all seen other threads that are started because people are mad that others won't attack their Lich, effectively blocking them from getting a shot at theirs. I have a proposal for a compromise that I think might work for everyone.

When a Lich spawns they can spawn up to 5 additional Thralls (which is good for the team). So how about once the Lich has spawned all 5 Thralls (so the whole teams gets the reward for their patience) a timer starts and at the end if not mercied at least once and actively engaged by the target player, it will despawn and allow the next Lich to spawn.

This lets those that don't want to engage for whatever reason not to, while not blocking those that do want to engage and allowing everyone to collect the 5 bonus murmurs for their time.

 

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That solution would be sufficient.

Though I would lean more towards the solution of not instantly downing/killing a player and leveling their Lich just to drive them off would at least mean that driving them off would lose the immediate perceived negatives that cause people to avoid their Lich in the first place.

Though at this point any solution would be better than the arguments over in General Discussion.

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Something like that would certainly go a long way towards ending the altercations between players...but, ultimately, the system itself needs an overhaul. Even for the bare-bones foundation, it's not going to cut it in the long-run.

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How about we don't die if we beat the Lich, and we test all 3 mods regardless of whether or not the first one is right (you know, like we expected to when the system was unveiled)?

Nobody likes a system that force-kills you in order to progress.

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2 minutes ago, Iamabearlulz said:

How about we don't die if we beat the Lich, and we test all 3 mods regardless of whether or not the first one is right (you know, like we expected to when the system was unveiled)?

Nobody likes a system that force-kills you in order to progress.

That might be a nice idea, but I doubt DE would let us have that much leeway. I would still call it a win if we get to test our first parazon mod slot and it fails the Lich despawns. We are asking for faster mechanics to deal with our Liches yes, but I doubt we will get much more than that. Besides, getting more murmur traces per Lich spawn greatly increased our rotation of Lich Kills as evidenced last week.

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10 hours ago, Iamabearlulz said:

How about we don't die if we beat the Lich, and we test all 3 mods regardless of whether or not the first one is right (you know, like we expected to when the system was unveiled)?

Nobody likes a system that force-kills you in order to progress.

I still don't get this aversion to eating a death. In this game unless you are actively leveling something (which I hope no one is doing while hunting Liches) there is literally ZERO penalty for dying once in a mission. I hope all of this fighting isn't over the stroking of some epeen ego nonsense. Even if it is this compromise should still work for all.

Maybe I think about this differently because I started MMO's with EverQuest and in that game death meant you lost real EXP every single time and if you lost too much you could lose whole LEVELS which could then take hours to recoup the lost EXP. Not to mention naked runs to go get your corpse and your gear back. In WoW the "penalty" is just a little repair cost. In Warframe the penalty is literally nothing unless you are way too weak for the missions and die a lot without revives. Even then other than this ONE death you can still get revived with zero penalty.

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2 hours ago, No1NParticular31 said:

unless you are actively leveling something (which I hope no one is doing while hunting Liches)

Considering that the system was introduced with 13 weapons that require 5 forma each to get all the mastery from, and the fact that if you're actually wanting to collect the weapons you just have to be grinding liches while leveling the weapons you get so that it doesn't take even longer (seriously, 2-4 hours per lich, and that is attempting to kill it when it appears even though it can be more than a dozen missions between appearances, is too long).
The 10% affinity malus that is basically the game going "The lich spawned, lose 10% affinity with only a 0.3% chance to avoid it!"

And then there are all of the MR7-10s that I've seen trying to do lich nodes and leveling weapons because fact is they need to level their weapons...

17 hours ago, No1NParticular31 said:

This lets those that don't want to engage for whatever reason not to

Try asking an MR5-10 that just completed the war within and got a lich why they don't want to level up all of their lich nodes to level 110 with zero benefit for doing so and no real way to avoid it other than simply running from their liches.

Maybe if there was some benefit to leveling up your lich it might be worth it to engage with it when you don't even know one word.
But with how quickly the first word goes its just not worth it to engage with your lich until you know at least one possibility.
I mean you get zero bonus for fighting a level 5 lich, and are just punished by missions that take longer with the grineer health-walls that populate the missions.

Fact is that this system is available way too early in the game.
Minimum MR req for a weapon from this system is 13 yet its available at MR5 when they can't handle the enemies.

16 hours ago, TenebraeAeterna said:

Something like that would certainly go a long way towards ending the altercations between players...but, ultimately, the system itself needs an overhaul. Even for the bare-bones foundation, it's not going to cut it in the long-run.

Fully agree here.
System needs a complete rework if its supposed to last any length of time, and it needs something that stops low MR players that don't read the forums from activating a system that effectively punishes them for the longest time because they don't even have the ability to grind for requiem mods in some cases...

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16 hours ago, Iamabearlulz said:

Nobody likes a system that force-kills you in order to progress.

I want to have this engraved in steel and riveted to the monitor of every single dev in their offices.

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1 minute ago, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

I want to have this engraved in steel and riveted to the monitor of every single dev in their offices.

I'd settle for printing it on t-shirts and mailing a box of them to DE's main office.

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vor 16 Stunden schrieb Iamabearlulz:

Nobody likes a system that force-kills you in order to progress

Actually I like it to be killed. Dying in Waframe is way to hard.

I have problems to die even when I use Ash (Prime) on the third Sortie mission. And don't expect from me to use smoke screen. 

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First and foremost, this thread is not the place to point fingers and argue about who did what to whom and why. I am trying to reach a compromise.

That said, I will respond to your post.

4 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

Considering that the system was introduced with 13 weapons that require 5 forma each to get all the mastery from, and the fact that if you're actually wanting to collect the weapons you just have to be grinding liches while leveling the weapons you get so that it doesn't take even longer (seriously, 2-4 hours per lich, and that is attempting to kill it when it appears even though it can be more than a dozen missions between appearances, is too long).
The 10% affinity malus that is basically the game going "The lich spawned, lose 10% affinity with only a 0.3% chance to avoid it!"

And then there are all of the MR7-10s that I've seen trying to do lich nodes and leveling weapons because fact is they need to level their weapons...

First, considering you can level a weapon from rank 0 to 30 in like 10 - 15 minutes in a non-Lich mission, 10% lost affinity is the equivalent to approximately 60 to 90 seconds worth of work. Sorry that is not any sort of real loss or penalty. It's certainly not something to be "OMGZORS I cannot allow myself to die and face this devastating penalty" about. Second, if you are running un-leveled (and thus not fully modded) weapons to fight a Lich, then it's no wonder why you are having problems. If you need to level weapons, Lich nodes are NOT the place to do that. Go do Hydron, or ESO if you can, where you can level the weapon fast and then actually be useful in the Lich mission.

Again MR doesn't matter. If you need to level weapons, Lich missions are not the place to do that. As far as difficulty based on MR goes, I do think they should add an MR 10 requirement to participation. MR 7 is indeed a bit low considering the weapons you will have access to. By MR 10, you have access to weapons like Lesion, Arca Plasmor, Fulmin, and lot of other great weapons.

4 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

Try asking an MR5-10 that just completed the war within and got a lich why they don't want to level up all of their lich nodes to level 110 with zero benefit for doing so and no real way to avoid it other than simply running from their liches.

Maybe if there was some benefit to leveling up your lich it might be worth it to engage with it when you don't even know one word.
But with how quickly the first word goes its just not worth it to engage with your lich until you know at least one possibility.
I mean you get zero bonus for fighting a level 5 lich, and are just punished by missions that take longer with the grineer health-walls that populate the missions.

Actually I see two bonuses to leveling Liches. The first is, if you can't solo it, it is easier to find full groups at the higher levels, because the game should match people with Liches of the same rank. If it doesn't match players by Lich rank then even with a level 1 Lich yourself, you could still end up in a level 5 Lich mission thereby negating the argument that leveling YOUR Lich means harder enemies. I have noticed that when my Lich is Rank 1 I often end up soloing despite being in a pub mission, or at least am solo for a little bit until maybe one other player shows up. By the time it's level 4 or 5, nearly every group I load into is full which means more help for those that can't solo it. The second bonus is that some missions are more desirable for farming Thralls but at Rank 1 your Lich can only occupy 1 planet at a time limiting your choice of mission. Higher ranks give access to more planets, more missions and thus better choice and variety making the time spent more efficient.

4 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

Fact is that this system is available way too early in the game.
Minimum MR req for a weapon from this system is 13 yet its available at MR5 when they can't handle the enemies.

As I mentioned above, I do think they should add a MR10 requirement to the Lich system, just for the weapons that become available up to MR10. While I could see a MR13 requirement though due to that is what MR the Kuva weapons require, I still think 10 would be sufficient and allow players to collect these weapons even if they can't use them just yet.

Finally, this is not the debate I am looking for in this thread. I would prefer to keep this to discussing the Compromise I have proposed which (despite your comments that seem to ignore it) DOES include a despawn mechanic that doesn't require a player to engage a Lich if they do not want to. If you have something to add to or discuss with the actual proposal, I am open to suggestions.

 

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On 2019-11-17 at 9:09 AM, No1NParticular31 said:

When a Lich spawns they can spawn up to 5 additional Thralls (which is good for the team). So how about once the Lich has spawned all 5 Thralls (so the whole teams gets the reward for their patience) a timer starts and at the end if not mercied at least once and actively engaged by the target player, it will despawn and allow the next Lich to spawn.

Considdering Lich hunt missions are rather short, under this condition there would be only time for 1, in some rare cases 2, Lich spawns. Or you remain in a mission for longer than it is necesasry, but since regular Thrall spawns as well as bonus Thralls are capped, there is no reason to do so.
Just increase Murmur gain on stab to 15 and remove the conversion mechanic.

21 hours ago, Iamabearlulz said:

How about we don't die if we beat the Lich, and we test all 3 mods regardless of whether or not the first one is right (you know, like we expected to when the system was unveiled)?

Nobody likes a system that force-kills you in order to progress.

A very comfortable suggestion.
This would make all the Murmur collection thingy completely moot. By testing all requiems at one you could discover the right combination in 3-4 stabs, which would drastically reduce time for a single hunt. I do not think Lich system was intended to be completed in a week, but the player base is pushing towards easy rewards.

8 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

Try asking an MR5-10 that just completed the war within and got a lich why they don't want to level up all of their lich nodes to level 110 with zero benefit for doing so and no real way to avoid it other than simply running from their liches. Fact is that this system is available way too early in the game.
Minimum MR req for a weapon from this system is 13 yet its available at MR5 when they can't handle the enemies.

Why should this system considder MR-5s in the first place? Lichs are ment for advanced players. While I absolutely agree you can dive into Lich hunts early on, there is also a clear option to opt out and come back later, when the player is ready to tackle the difficulty. Not to mention that from my personal experience I hardly see a MR-1X player on my hunts, let alone MR-X.
Mission lvl is decided by the host, so even if your Lich is lvl5, it doesn't mean every mission will have lvl 100 enemies in it (excpet you host it); it also works the other way around, so you can join a session with lvl100 enemies, while your Lich is still lvl1.

8 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

Maybe if there was some benefit to leveling up your lich it might be worth it to engage with it when you don't even know one word.

There is benefit to it. You progress faster, because you gain Murmurs for stabbing; you test requiems with a chance to guess one and advance even further; you unlock more nodes for Thrall farming.

8 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

I mean you get zero bonus for fighting a level 5 lich, and are just punished by missions that take longer with the grineer health-walls that populate the missions.

What is the point in all those PrimeVandalPrismaWraithKuva Boomsticks, if you plan to use them against weaklings? People argue as if Sortie 3 lvl range is unbeatable content. Furthermore, you don't even have to kill all enemies (except in Exterminate and Defense), as Thralls spawns are timed and tied to mission progress. You can rush through a Capture misison and will meet Thralls without killing anyone else. Exterminate and Defense are actually the worst mission types for Thrall farming, yet those nodes are the most played onces. One more widespread misconception.

8 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

seriously, 2-4 hours per lich

For me, it is more like 1-2 hours.

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7 hours ago, ES-Flinter said:

Actually I like it to be killed. Dying in Waframe is way to hard.

I have problems to die even when I use Ash (Prime) on the third Sortie mission. And don't expect from me to use smoke screen. 

I wouldn't mind dieing to a lich if it actually beat me and not the game just going "You weren't lucky, so die with no way to avoid it!"
If the lich actually beat me and killed me I would actually be impressed with the system.  Except that's not what happens, the game just goes "You lose!" with no way to realistically avoid it.

I mean its basically like this:
Say you go through a spy mission, you get to the first vault and hack it perfectly, sneak past every enemy, and do a perfect hack on the console without triggering an alarm.  Then the game goes "MISSION FAILED!" all because you hacked the A vault first when it was supposed to be the last vault you hacked and you had zero ways to figure that out.  Eat a mission failure for no reason.
That's essentially what failing a requiem combination is.

2 hours ago, ShortCat said:

Why should this system considder MR-5s in the first place? Lichs are ment for advanced players. While I absolutely agree you can dive into Lich hunts early on, there is also a clear option to opt out and come back later, when the player is ready to tackle the difficulty. Not to mention that from my personal experience I hardly see a MR-1X player on my hunts, let alone MR-X.

Why should it consider MR5s?  Maybe because that's when players can get into the system and have zero way to "opt out" of it.
If there was a way to actually get out of the system without being stuck with, what is essentially a permanent, tax on resources, mods, endo, and all other rewards then maybe we wouldn't need to consider lower MR players.
Fact is that if low MR players are allowed into the system it needs to consider them.

Further I have ran across more MR5-17 than I have MR20+ in public lich hunts.

2 hours ago, ShortCat said:

What is the point in all those PrimeVandalPrismaWraithKuva Boomsticks, if you plan to use them against weaklings?

A "high level" grineer is still just a weak healthwall in the end.  And if you were arguing for enemies to test those weapons against then you would be arguing for much higher levels as those enemies are still in one-shot territory for endgame players.
Fact is the lich system doesn't really test our boomsticks, and yet at the same time are near insurmountable to lower MR players.

2 hours ago, ShortCat said:

For me, it is more like 1-2 hours.

Depends purely on luck, both in if you get lucky on the order of your mods (which isn't reliable by any means) and if you get lucky in your lich appearing (I've seriously gone 14 missions with my lich at full rage before she appeared.  And that was focusing on the longer missions simply to give her more of a chance to appear in the mission.

I've been timing my runs and stabbing the lich whenever they appear (within reason, for example its not best to stab your lich when you have less than 1/3rd left on your first two words due to the lich murmurs not spilling over into the next word so its faster to finish that word and then stab your lich who should, if you're lucky, appear much more often since its at high rage), and running the "decent" missions for murmur gain vs time investment, and over 20+ liches its averaged around 2-4 hours with the two times that were dramatically shorter due to pure blind luck.

I honestly wish the system had some other way than pure RNG to determine how long you spend hunting your lich, especially when it comes to spawning your lich.  For example if the first 2 words you reveal are your last two it can take nearly until the third word is unveiled to get the first word correct if your lich refuses to spawn frequently enough....

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I agree with your solution. 

I'm in the only kill when you have 2/3 words camp, because I get no benefit from dying (the death I don't care about, it's the lack of ROI) other than a few murmurs which I can easily get running just 1 more mission (which makes this not nearly the motivator everyone seems to think it is "BUT YOU GET MURMURS! STAB IT!").  I reduce his anger, meaning it's harder to get him to spawn when I actually WANT him to wasting more of my time doing missions killing thralls with next to 0 benefit once I have all 3 words (other than the 5% chance to get a relic, but I've had 2-3 mission streaks with no relics at all) just to piss him off again, and I level him up making enemies more dmg spongy, which again means I waste time in every mission I play and it takes longer to clear/fight him.  Not harder, not more fun, just more time consuming.  The benefit of .5-1 missions worth of murmurs, isn't worth the cost of reduced efficiency, extra missions, and increased time to resolve him and move to the next.

I tell teams - I know it sucks for y'all, sorry!  But don't blame me for playing the most time-effective way I can, blame DE for making the system that benefits me most playing this way.

If failed stabs were like a whole word, then it'd be more worth it (unless you were already at like 95% and only needed 1 more mission).  I honestly don't understand everyone acting like 6-8 extra murmurs is some HUGE boost to progress.  It's 1 mission worth, that's not super-huge.  Is one 5 minute mission's worth of time saving really that big a deal compared to losing 6-7 missions worth of anger?

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Not that I care because I do my kuva stuff solo anyway but why is this even a problem?

If the lich is down you get x seconds to perform your mercy kill otherwise they despawn, problem solved.

 

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2 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

I wouldn't mind dieing to a lich if it actually beat me and not the game just going "You weren't lucky, so die with no way to avoid it!"
If the lich actually beat me and killed me I would actually be impressed with the system.  Except that's not what happens, the game just goes "You lose!" with no way to realistically avoid it.

I mean its basically like this:
Say you go through a spy mission, you get to the first vault and hack it perfectly, sneak past every enemy, and do a perfect hack on the console without triggering an alarm.  Then the game goes "MISSION FAILED!" all because you hacked the A vault first when it was supposed to be the last vault you hacked and you had zero ways to figure that out.  Eat a mission failure for no reason.
That's essentially what failing a requiem combination is.

Except that it isn't like that. Maybe if you had said all that and ended with you eat one death, res then win the mission anyway then sure.

2 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

Why should it consider MR5s?  Maybe because that's when players can get into the system and have zero way to "opt out" of it.

If there was a way to actually get out of the system without being stuck with, what is essentially a permanent, tax on resources, mods, endo, and all other rewards then maybe we wouldn't need to consider lower MR players.
Fact is that if low MR players are allowed into the system it needs to consider them.

Further I have ran across more MR5-17 than I have MR20+ in public lich hunts.

...

Fact is the lich system doesn't really test our boomsticks, and yet at the same time are near insurmountable to lower MR players.

First and foremost the 'zero way to "opt out" of it' bit was true on day one but has since been rectified. You now have to OPT IN to participate. It's been this way for a while now. I have tested it and it works. I did the Capture on Saturn for NW with no interest in a Lich at the time. Larva spawned, I killed him and moved on without opting in, and guess what, NO LICH.

That said, I still think there should be an MR 10 min requirement to participate simply due to the level of weapons available at MR 5 vs MR10. Based on the last sentence in this quote sounds like you would agree.

2 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

Depends purely on luck, both in if you get lucky on the order of your mods (which isn't reliable by any means) and if you get lucky in your lich appearing (I've seriously gone 14 missions with my lich at full rage before she appeared.  And that was focusing on the longer missions simply to give her more of a chance to appear in the mission.

I've been timing my runs and stabbing the lich whenever they appear (within reason, for example its not best to stab your lich when you have less than 1/3rd left on your first two words due to the lich murmurs not spilling over into the next word so its faster to finish that word and then stab your lich who should, if you're lucky, appear much more often since its at high rage), and running the "decent" missions for murmur gain vs time investment, and over 20+ liches its averaged around 2-4 hours with the two times that were dramatically shorter due to pure blind luck.

I honestly wish the system had some other way than pure RNG to determine how long you spend hunting your lich, especially when it comes to spawning your lich.  For example if the first 2 words you reveal are your last two it can take nearly until the third word is unveiled to get the first word correct if your lich refuses to spawn frequently enough....

I have never gone more than 3 maybe 4 missions without my Lich spawning, except when I had multiple missions in a row where someone left theirs up. That is even starting with fresh new Lich with zero rage.

You are obviously working on outdated info, because the murmurs were made to "spill over into the next word" as you put it in the Nov 5th patch where they adjusted the amount required. So it's been this way for nearly two weeks.

For proof from

Quote

Excess Murmur progress now carries over to the next Murmur to allow for faster Murmur discovery.

 

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1 hour ago, DesertEagle1280 said:

I agree with your solution. 

I'm in the only kill when you have 2/3 words camp, because I get no benefit from dying (the death I don't care about, it's the lack of ROI) other than a few murmurs which I can easily get running just 1 more mission (which makes this not nearly the motivator everyone seems to think it is "BUT YOU GET MURMURS! STAB IT!").  I reduce his anger, meaning it's harder to get him to spawn when I actually WANT him to wasting more of my time doing missions killing thralls with next to 0 benefit once I have all 3 words (other than the 5% chance to get a relic, but I've had 2-3 mission streaks with no relics at all) just to piss him off again, and I level him up making enemies more dmg spongy, which again means I waste time in every mission I play and it takes longer to clear/fight him.  Not harder, not more fun, just more time consuming.  The benefit of .5-1 missions worth of murmurs, isn't worth the cost of reduced efficiency, extra missions, and increased time to resolve him and move to the next.

I tell teams - I know it sucks for y'all, sorry!  But don't blame me for playing the most time-effective way I can, blame DE for making the system that benefits me most playing this way.

If failed stabs were like a whole word, then it'd be more worth it (unless you were already at like 95% and only needed 1 more mission).  I honestly don't understand everyone acting like 6-8 extra murmurs is some HUGE boost to progress.  It's 1 mission worth, that's not super-huge.  Is one 5 minute mission's worth of time saving really that big a deal compared to losing 6-7 missions worth of anger?

I 100% understand where you are coming from. However I have been in the position where I knew all 3 words AND the correct order and just needed my Lich to spawn, only to be blocked by someone doing that for 3 missions in a row. That means I was forced to do more missions than I should have with even LESS reward that you since I wasn't even getting murmurs anymore. I get this is how you want to play but completely preventing me from playing at all isn't the answer.

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5 hours ago, ShortCat said:

Considdering Lich hunt missions are rather short, under this condition there would be only time for 1, in some rare cases 2, Lich spawns. Or you remain in a mission for longer than it is necesasry, but since regular Thrall spawns as well as bonus Thralls are capped, there is no reason to do so.
Just increase Murmur gain on stab to 15 and remove the conversion mechanic.

That is kind of the point of what I am asking for. Currently I believe the cap is 10 thralls per mission + 5 with a Lich. I am saying it should be + 5 PER Lich. So staying just a bit longer and getting more Liches is still more of a gain than the current process. This saves a bit of time loading out, loading back in and completing another objective. It would also be super helpful if the Lotus could announce something like "It appears the Lich and their Thralls have retreated, you are clear to proceed" when no more Thralls or Liches are going to spawn. This would give a clear indication.

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3 hours ago, DesertEagle1280 said:

II reduce his anger, meaning it's harder to get him to spawn when I actually WANT him to

Actually I just confirmed this is FALSE. I just stabbed my Lich and died and at the end of the mission his anger was HIGHER than when I went in. It is possible this is something that has changed since the initial inception, but as of now attempts do not seem to lower anger.

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2 hours ago, No1NParticular31 said:

I 100% understand where you are coming from. However I have been in the position where I knew all 3 words AND the correct order and just needed my Lich to spawn, only to be blocked by someone doing that for 3 missions in a row. That means I was forced to do more missions than I should have with even LESS reward that you since I wasn't even getting murmurs anymore. I get this is how you want to play but completely preventing me from playing at all isn't the answer.

Which is why once I'm ready with all 3 words I go solo.  It makes sure I fight my lich, because it's guaranteed to be the one that spawns, and once you're not farming, other people are no longer needed to increase thrall spawns.  I'm not saying you have to go solo to kill your liches, but it's an option.  I do murmur farms pub, and then do kill and spawning new ones solo, so I don't have to yell at people to play my way so my lich will spawn or fight over the kuvaling.

41 minutes ago, No1NParticular31 said:

Actually I just confirmed this is FALSE. I just stabbed my Lich and died and at the end of the mission his anger was HIGHER than when I went in. It is possible this is something that has changed since the initial inception, but as of now attempts do not seem to lower anger.

As recently as last night, mine did not work that way when I did a 2/3 stab.  Maybe if you were doing a 3/3 stab but wrong order, or if you had a level 5 lich.  

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7 hours ago, No1NParticular31 said:

You are obviously working on outdated info, because the murmurs were made to "spill over into the next word" as you put it in the Nov 5th patch where they adjusted the amount required. So it's been this way for nearly two weeks.

Try this exact scenario:
Get a word to only needing 1 or 2 more thralls to finish it.  Then wait for your lich to spawn.
Stab it and watch it fill out that one word.....and then stop.  You will get zero progress into the next word even though the lich should have provided enough murmur progress to grant you something.

I tested this last night with a friend because I was curious.  My lich spawned early in a disruption mission and I only needed 2 or 3 more thralls to fill out a word.  I stabbed my lich...and only got that word and zero progress towards my final word.  The thralls in the mission?  Sure they gave me progress towards the final word but not that lich stab.

That's what I'm saying about it not "spilling over".

Sure if you finish a word and then stab another thrall/lich you'll make progress into the next word (if applicable) but progress from a single source can't spill over into the next word even if it should.

5 hours ago, No1NParticular31 said:

Actually I just confirmed this is FALSE. I just stabbed my Lich and died and at the end of the mission his anger was HIGHER than when I went in. It is possible this is something that has changed since the initial inception, but as of now attempts do not seem to lower anger.

What level was the lich?
IF its a level 5 lich then yes the anger meter won't reset.
If its a level 1-4 lich then the meter does reset.  I'll try to get you some images later today because last night I watched a level 3 lich at "enraged" (max level rage) and failed to kill it.  I checked after the mission and it was right back to "Indifferent".

EDIT: Here is some proof about the lich agression resetting.
3S5QNmv.jpg

Level 4 lich that is "fuming"

Here is the lich after leveling up to level 5:
F3sAPms.jpg

Note how the rage meter is back down to indifferent now...meaning it'll take a few missions before the lich will show up again.

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19 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

Why should it consider MR5s?  Maybe because that's when players can get into the system and have zero way to "opt out" of it.
If there was a way to actually get out of the system without being stuck with, what is essentially a permanent, tax on resources, mods, endo, and all other rewards then maybe we wouldn't need to consider lower MR players.

And I am sure, you as a considerate teammate helped them through the mission. Others may carry them through the whole hunt.

20 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

Fact is that if low MR players are allowed into the system it needs to consider them.

Fact is the lich system doesn't really test our boomsticks, and yet at the same time are near insurmountable to lower MR players.

Low MRs are also allowed into Eidolon fights, ESO or Arbitrations. Should DE adjust the game for them now?
MR does not determine your skill, if you can handle it - great, go ahead; if not - learn a lessen and come back later. Somebody who completed Sedna Junction should not require training wheels anymore.

20 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

Depends purely on luck, both in if you get lucky on the order of your mods (which isn't reliable by any means) and if you get lucky in your lich appearing (I've seriously gone 14 missions with my lich at full rage before she appeared.  And that was focusing on the longer missions simply to give her more of a chance to appear in the mission.

You cannot accuse me of being lucky because I go for it, while others don't even test their luck in the first place and complain about 2-4 hours hunts.
The hardest limiter is Lich's spawn frequency and it took me considerably longer, if I rarely met him and had to rely on Murmur gains only. Once I stayed in a solo Survival for over 15 minutes to test whether my Lich would spawn - he didn't. Mission time alone is not enough.

 

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