Lich system: Myths and Misconceptions

[No1NParticular31]

I have started to notice some things being presented in arguments around the Lich system that either nether were or are at least no longer true. I just want to clear a few of these up in hopes to help make sure we are all on the same page.

1. Myth: Stabbing your Lich and failing reduces it's rage causing it to not spawn spawn as often. This means it's better to wait to stab him when you are closer to being able to win. Fact: This may or may not have been true at initial release, but as of right now this is absolutely false. Stabbing your Lich early and often does not reduce rage and in fact as of my tests today, seems to actually increase it. I was able to stab my Lich 3 missions in a row and go from about 65% to 80%ish rage maybe more. It for sure did NOT go down.

2. Myth: When completing a word mid mission, murmurs do not roll over into the next word, so stabbing a Lich when you are close to completing a word is pointless. Fact: This was true at initial release but as of the Nov 5th patch this has been fixed and continuing to collect murmurs in a mission where you complete a word now rolls over into the next word. Unless the word you completed was the last one, of course.

3. Myth: There is no way to opt out of the Lich system once you have completed The War Within. Fact: This was sort of true at initial release, where if you accidentally killed a Larva then you were committed to completing the Lich. However this has since been changed to an "Opt In" system, where now you not only have to kill the Larva, you also have to then use your Parazon on it. If you do not use your Parazon on the Larva, it will despawn in about 30ish seconds and you will NOT receive a Lich at the end of the mission.

4. Myth: There is no way for me to despawn my Lich without stabbing it, eating a death, and causing it to level up. Fact: You can despawn a Lich without eating a full death and causing it to level up, by letting it put you in a bleed out state using it's regular attacks. The Lich will despawn and a teammate can then revive you.
 

There may be more that I have missed and I will be adding them here as more are found and/or things change.

Edited November 18, 2019 by No1NParticular31

[Sintag]

26 minutes ago, No1NParticular31 said:

4. Myth: There is no way for me to despawn my Lich without stabbing it, eating a death, and causing it to level up. Fact: You can despawn a Lich without eating a full death and causing it to level up, by letting it put you in a bleed out state using it's regular attacks. The Lich will despawn and a teammate can then revive you.

Can confirm, got killed by my Lich when I was running solo and she left without levelling up.  'Tis worth noting that this does seem a tad inconsistent, though.  I've had Liches take me down with normal attacks, but then proceed to go after my teammates regardless.

[akots]

45 minutes ago, No1NParticular31 said:

1. Myth: Stabbing your Lich and failing reduces it's rage causing it to not spawn spawn as often. This means it's better to wait to stab him when you are closer to being able to win. Fact: This may or may not have been true at initial release, but as of right now this is absolutely false. Stabbing your Lich early and often does not reduce rage and in fact as of my tests today, seems to actually increase it. I was able to stab my Lich 3 missions in a row and go from about 65% to 80%ish rage maybe more. It for sure did NOT go down.

I presume we are playing a different game then. For me, rage goes down consitently and reliably. It takes 3-4 missions to have a good chance of spawning a level 2 lich back into action. It seems that level 5 liches have higher baseline anger and it does not go down that much but it does go down reducing the chance of liches to spawn. Typically, I have to run at least one and at most 3 missions after failed stabbing for a level 4-5 lich to spawn back (solo). So, no, as of right now, this is not a myth. It maybe be inconsistent at times though. In your case, it may be possible that your lich simply leveled up and you could have killed some thralls after it despawned.

45 minutes ago, No1NParticular31 said:

4. Myth: There is no way for me to despawn my Lich without stabbing it, eating a death, and causing it to level up. Fact: You can despawn a Lich without eating a full death and causing it to level up, by letting it put you in a bleed out state using it's regular attacks. The Lich will despawn and a teammate can then revive you.

It may be inconsistent on a laggy host. Out of curiosity we have tested it with a clanmate who has 250-300 msec ping on my host. He was killed 6 times before the lich finally despawned. And no, there were no other enemies around. It may have something to do with specific lich powers or range or something else, IDK. Works better for the host but still, anything is possible. So, does not seem like a myth as well.

Edited November 18, 2019 by akots

[EmberStar]

37 minutes ago, No1NParticular31 said:

3. Myth: There is no way to opt out of the Lich system once you have completed The War Within. Fact: This was sort of true at initial release, where if you accidentally killed a Larva then you were committed to completing the Lich. However this has since been changed to an "Opt In" system, where now you not only have to kill the Larva, you also have to then use your Parazon on it. If you do not use your Parazon on the Larva, it will despawn in about 30ish seconds and you will NOT receive a Lich at the end of the mission.

4. Myth: There is no way for me to despawn my Lich without stabbing it, eating a death, and causing it to level up. Fact: You can despawn a Lich without eating a full death and causing it to level up, by letting it put you in a bleed out state using it's regular attacks. The Lich will despawn and a teammate can then revive you.

For 3 - now that killing liches is actually optional, some people have already started to complain that it's hard to find teams on many nodes.  Many of the people who weren't thrilled with the system have simply walked away from it and avoid creating a lich, and therefore aren't available for random teams for the people still playing.  As more people either "finish" and get a decent copy of each weapon or simply give up and stop trying I only expect the problem to get worse.

For 4 - In my experience this does not work properly in teams.  Simply being in bleedout isn't enough to make the lich leave, you have to actually die.  I know my lich popped up in a Defense mission and I told the team that I had no intention of stabbing it, but that I'd keep her away from the cryopod and that she should go away once I was down.  Only... that didn't happen.  For one thing I was unwilling to simply stand there and die, and somehow she was having difficulty actually hurting me.  Each time she did knock me down, either another or my Vasca kavat would revive me, and she simply refused to go away.  The problem is still that there's apparently no *deliberate* mechanic for getting rid of a lich without sacrificing yourself.  (And the reasons why people don't want to do that have been discussed in other threads, which are probably a better place for the non-discussion with people who "don't see what the problem is.")

[BDMblue]

The rage thing on level 1-4 lich if you fail to kill with a stab and the lich levels rage drops. If you fail on an already level 5 lich the rage does not drop.

[Miser_able]

2 hours ago, No1NParticular31 said:

1. Myth: Stabbing your Lich and failing reduces it's rage causing it to not spawn spawn as often. This means it's better to wait to stab him when you are closer to being able to win. Fact: This may or may not have been true at initial release, but as of right now this is absolutely false. Stabbing your Lich early and often does not reduce rage and in fact as of my tests today, seems to actually increase it. I was able to stab my Lich 3 missions in a row and go from about 65% to 80%ish rage maybe more. It for sure did NOT go down.

 

Their anger meter doesn't reset on failing a stab. It resets on them leveling up. So the first 4 failed stabs will level them up, and reset their anger meter. Once they are level 5 stabbing them will not reset their meter. 

[Tsukinoki]

5 hours ago, No1NParticular31 said:

1. Myth: Stabbing your Lich and failing reduces it's rage causing it to not spawn spawn as often. This means it's better to wait to stab him when you are closer to being able to win. Fact: This may or may not have been true at initial release, but as of right now this is absolutely false. Stabbing your Lich early and often does not reduce rage and in fact as of my tests today, seems to actually increase it. I was able to stab my Lich 3 missions in a row and go from about 65% to 80%ish rage maybe more. It for sure did NOT go down.

Here is proof that stabbing a lich and leveling it up reduces its anger meter:

My level 4 lich before stabbing:

And my level 5 lich after stabbing:

Please note how the anger went from fuming to indifferent.

[IIDMOII]

Myth: This was a well thought out system with elaborate testing.

Fact: it wasn't.

 

Myth: murmur farming is fun.

Fact: it isnt.

 

Myth: playing solo in a coop game is fun.

Fact: play solo to avoid untested issues.

 

Myth: there's new content.

Fact: it's just scaled up star chart missions. 

 

Myth: there's going to be a payoff once you attain a good roll on a weapon.

Fact: there isn't. There's no higher level content to play with your new overpowered weapon. I have to solo ESO for xp because people quit by wave 2 because I can kill everything so fast. Yawn.

 

Myth: they want to start reigning in power creep.

Fact: here's a weapon that's arguably better than what's in the game. 

 

Myth: a murmur is a sound.

Fact: its a progress bar.