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Why do people keep sayin Baruuk is weak?


QuinnCarter
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All of his abilities are useful and either CC the enemy or keep him alive, or both.

He has three different forms of damage reduction, making him way tank-ier than he actually is. Add Adaptation for a fourth set of damage reduction and you're basically lesser Rhino.

His Desert Wind uses a different resource other than energy, and managing that resource is super easy meaning that he can stay using his Exalted Weapon ALL THE TIME.

Desert Wind IS RIDICULOUSLY STRONG. Seriously, I'm hitting for 87k damage on unarmoured enemies, and I only have 194% Power Strength.

He has ULTRA INSTINCT!

He has fantastic fashion frame potential.

Baruuk is one of the strongest Warframes in the game, change my mind.

EDIT: I should probably post what my build is. F8FC1BB97AC7F8673409F9E3E38D779FF89980DA

Edited by QuinnCarter
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4 minutes ago, QuinnCarter said:

Add Adaptation for a fourth set of damage reduction and you're basically lesser Rhino.

I think that's one of the problems. Why be a lesser Rhino, when you can just be Rhino? Not to mention, Baruuk is one of those frames that require some degree of learning, much like Limbo; and most aren't going to bother learning how to Baruuk or Limbo when they can just Saryn or Mesa the whole mission.

 

...And Baruuk is the only frame I almost always forget exist. No one really uses him, and I only remember him because I have a dim recollection of a male frame released between Garuda and Hildryn.

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"lesser Rhino"... 😄

Ever since the melee rework Baruuk's 4th ability has been a joy to use. A warframe I never thought I'd like, I've now fallen in love with. Gone are those awful hold E combos.

He disarms, he slows/sleeps, has DR up the ass which he also passes to his team, and his Serene Storm is a powerhouse. Baruuk best boi 😄

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Because his 4 is the weakest exalted melee (atleast on console still, because I know they done screwed over iron staff). It will only perform to about level 80 where then enemy armor scaling will really start to get in the way. The other exalted melees perform up to and past level 125 enemies.

And while is 4 doesn’t require energy. It’s actually that very thing that’s also holding it back. The other exalted melee users can take advantage of rage or hunters adrenaline to keep their energy up and keep using their exalted. Baruuk has to build up a separate meter (using powers that cost energy mind you) and then expend that meter to use the exalted. So if anything is more of a restriction than a benefit.

If Serene Storm was actually strong then it would make sense for it to have that restraint meter as a way to limit how often Baruuk can dish out damage. Unfortunately with Serene Storms damage being crap that doesn’t work.

I think Baruuk gets a lot of unecessary hate, but the state of his 4 is inexcusable and it drags him down.

Edited by (XB1)GearsMatrix301
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23 minutes ago, (PS4)The1stAzrael said:

I think that's one of the problems. Why be a lesser Rhino, when you can just be Rhino? Not to mention, Baruuk is one of those frames that require some degree of learning, much like Limbo; and most aren't going to bother learning how to Baruuk or Limbo when they can just Saryn or Mesa the whole mission.

 

...And Baruuk is the only frame I almost always forget exist. No one really uses him, and I only remember him because I have a dim recollection of a male frame released between Garuda and Hildryn.

becuause he is does more than just tank damage rhino also is not that tanky (for some reason they seem to drop like flies on mot while Valk and Oberon don't seem to have quite the same problems) and has several requirements on getting Iron skin to work while not being able to use the on damaged arcanes like baruke can.  there are a few more reasons as as to why you might not want rhino over baruke and melee 3.0 made him better

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His 4 falls off a cliff because Impact damage is not in a good spot.

In terms of basic star chart and like Sorties he's mostly fine, but you'll notice how his 4 starts suffering as Grineer armor levels increase.

I'd also say his 1 is a bad ability mainly because it takes too much of a range investment, which makes his 3 hard to hold onto (though it does increase lull's range as a side benefit).

His 4 just needs the damage split into two different types, Just impact is hurting it, even Wukong's staff has a bit of slash.

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He's tanky, sure, but there's countless tanky frames that provide more utility than Baruuk.

Most of his issues come from his exalted.  It's status chance is awful and it's almost entirely impact damage, making them awful against anything armoured.  In addition it requires a resource separate from energy that can be a pain to maintain, particularly in missions with low body counts.  Trying to keep this up in your average public mission is extrenely taxing as you won't find enough targets to sleep. 

That's not the only issue though, his first ability is riddled with inconveniences.  It doesn't work when you're attacking, it prevents energy regen, it doesn't block from the back without insane range, it makes maintaining your damage reduction more difficult, and so forth. 

Even his sleep ability isn't the best.  It has a long wind up, requires line of sight, and doesn't work with finishers. 

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13 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Because his 4 is the weakest exalted melee (atleast on console still, because I know they done screwed over iron staff). It will only perform to about level 80 where then enemy armor scaling will really start to get in the way. The other exalted melees perform up to and past level 125 enemies.

And while is 4 doesn’t require energy. It’s actually that very thing that’s also holding it back. The other exalted melee users can take advantage of rage or hunters adrenaline to keep their energy up and keep using their exalted. Baruuk has to build up a separate meter (using powers that cost energy mind you) and then expend that meter to use the exalted. So if anything is more of a restriction than a benefit.

If Serene Storm was actually strong then it would make sense for it to have that restraint meter as a way to limit how often Baruuk can dish out damage. Unfortunately with Serene Storms damage being crap that doesn’t work.

I think Baruuk gets a lot of unecessary hate, but the state of his 4 is inexcusable and it drags him down.

Have you actually properly forma'd and built Desert Wind? Try running this and then tell me it's the weakest.9726FC64BF8A13B44B87E845028E93BCE9758A4A

PS, add in Arcane Strike and Arcane Fury for added damage.

 

Edited by QuinnCarter
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5 minutes ago, spirit_of_76 said:

becuause he is does more than just tank damage rhino also is not that tanky (for some reason they seem to drop like flies on mot while Valk and Oberon don't seem to have quite the same problems) and has several requirements on getting Iron skin to work while not being able to use the on damaged arcanes like baruke can.  there are a few more reasons as as to why you might not want rhino over baruke and melee 3.0 made him better

sadly most rhino players don't know how to effectively use iron skin, they just assume you press 2 and that's it. A lot of people will bash on him and say hes a noob frame but in all honesty the timing management required to maximize his survivabilty (even more more so with ironcland charge, arcane tanker etc) is a lot more difficult than just being a big meat shield with high HP and adaptation.

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1 minute ago, Aldain said:

His 4 just needs the damage split into two different types, Just impact is hurting it, even Wukong's staff has a bit of slash.

Slash is friggin' everywhere. Me, I'd have given his Staff some Puncture.

IMO, I think Impact for Baruuk's 4 is appropriate, given that enemies are hit with walls of force as it were. That said, perhaps Impact needs to be looked at in terms of usefulness.

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Just now, MirageKnight said:

Slash is friggin' everywhere. Me, I'd have given his Staff some Puncture.

IMO, I think Impact for Baruuk's 4 is appropriate, given that enemies are hit with walls of force as it were. That said, perhaps Impact needs to be looked at in terms of usefulness.

And it gives me an excuse to use Primed Heavy Trauma.

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1 minute ago, spirit_of_76 said:

becuause he is does more than just tank damage rhino also is not that tanky (for some reason they seem to drop like flies on mot while Valk and Oberon don't seem to have quite the same problems) and has several requirements on getting Iron skin to work while not being able to use the on damaged arcanes like baruke can.  there are a few more reasons as as to why you might not want rhino over baruke and melee 3.0 made him better

Yeah, OP laid out his damage capabilities and such, which does give him a leg up on Rhino. But Rhino is a much simpler and more accessible tank compared to Baruuk, which requires max standing with Solaris(?) or just straight up purchasing him from the market. A tanky Rhino build for your average player requires less work and less learning (as i'd previously mentioned) compared to Baruuk (and learning is not something Rhinoobs heavily invest in).

As far as survivability goes, yeah, Rhino is inferior to a number of tanks or pseudo-tanks, which can be attributed to that fact that he's so old, and has remained largely untouched for years. A bubble tanking Nyx with a speed melee has more survivability than him.

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Just now, MirageKnight said:

IMO, I think Impact for Baruuk's 4 is appropriate, given that enemies are hit with walls of force as it were. That said, perhaps Impact needs to be looked at in terms of usefulness.

That would also be a viable option, right now the general consensus on Impact is "EWWW!" and for good reason, since it is weak against all health types except for infested and only good against shields (which are either easy to bypass or not strong enough to warrant it).

That would need to change before people starting not wanting -Impact rivens on everything that has it.

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5 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Because his 4 is the weakest exalted melee

Valk disagrees with baruke you have range an no energy cost she has no range and an obcean energy cost on a frame with a small energy pool.  

7 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

It will only perform to about level 80 where then enemy armor scaling will really start to get in the way. The other exalted melees perform up to and past level 125 enemies.

when it somes to heavy killing sure but as far as the nonheavies or non grineer go he has one of the better exalted thanks to the massive amount of AOE is attacks have as far as grineer go you could run CP like ever one else he even has the right aura polarity out of the box.  

10 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

If Serene Storm was actually strong then it would make sense for it to have that restraint meter as a way to limit how often Baruuk can dish out damage. Unfortunately with Serene Storms damage being crap that doesn’t work.

the meter makes the ability better in endless modes but is a pain in non endless content.  once you get enough enimies in an area you can cast his 2 to ditch restraint quickly but you need groups of 2+ enimies in the area for restraint I recomend a min duration -range high strength build if you want to use is 4 alot and for normal play a half umbral build (of all things) seems to be the best all around thanks the 90% DR from his 3 and the ability to over charge it (you get 90% DR at 9 dagers but you can have over 15 my umbral build only gives 15 but it also only has +100% PS and you could run a +180% PS build on him quite easily but I don't have he corrupted efficiency mod to counter blind rage and he needs more casting than the - efficiency will sustain.  

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I use Baruuk a lot. And I mean, a LOT. That being said, the reason why people say he's weak is probably two things:

1. He's a generalist built around defense. I can name a LOT of frames that do his job(s) better then him, and he brings only one thing new to the table, being his sleeping-to-unaware state (Which technically, any frame can do if they deactivate an alarm and hide for 10 seconds...So yeah, he brings nothing new to the game, really.) This is the main reason people tend to lump "Baruuk is weak" With "Baruuk is boring", which I've seen many people say, and I highly disagree with.

2. He relies on his restraint system to reach top efficiency in both damage for his 4 and also his DR cap, so naturally, when you have a squad of 3 other warframes wiping the floor with every enemy in sight, his powers and role quickly become dimished and less useful compared to Ignis Wraith-wielding mirages, and damage champions like Saryn and Mesa.

He isn't weak. But he needs some more attention, in my opinion. After all my time using him, I'd like to think that I've nailed down his primary problems and advantages, but there are always people that have done more actual research.

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2 minutes ago, spirit_of_76 said:

Valk disagrees with baruke you have range an no energy cost she has no range and an obcean energy cost on a frame with a small energy pool.

You had the perfect opportunity to bring up Diwata and you missed it.  It's not that hard to maintain Hysteria, energy is extremely abundant.

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3 minutes ago, Aldain said:

That would also be a viable option, right now the general consensus on Impact is "EWWW!" and for good reason, since it is weak against all health types except for infested and only good against shields (which are either easy to bypass or not strong enough to warrant it).

That would need to change before people starting not wanting -Impact rivens on everything that has it.

Agreed. It sucks that Impact damage weapons are almost required to have Shattering Impact or Corrosive / Radiation builds to be remotely useful vs any kind of armor.

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5 minutes ago, Monochromeatic said:

sadly most rhino players don't know how to effectively use iron skin, they just assume you press 2 and that's it. A lot of people will bash on him and say hes a noob frame but in all honesty the timing management required to maximize his survivabilty (even more more so with ironcland charge, arcane tanker etc) is a lot more difficult than just being a big meat shield with high HP and adaptation.

by that point baruke is easier to use for tanking press 3 with more than 150% PS if you still are taking to much damage press 2 are run away.  also I know that alot of why rhinos die is becaues they did not setup iron skin properly but still when I can out live him with an Oberon that is kinda sad because Oberon is one of the squishiest tanks in the game with some casters having more EHP than he does his big thing is sustain but on mot he is easily out attritioned thanks to the low base value of his heal (and general wankieness of his kit with the effectiveness tiering)

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3 minutes ago, QuinnCarter said:

Have you actually properly forma'd and built Desert Wind? Try running this and then tell me it's the weakest.9726FC64BF8A13B44B87E845028E93BCE9758A4A

PS, add in Arcane Strike and Arcane Fury for added damage.

 

I have 250% power strength, I dropped 5 whole forma into Baruuk and Desert Storm.

Maybe with the crit mod changes his damage is better, but with every test I’ve put him through he always performs far worse than the other exalted melees.

And if you require arcanes to get it’s damage up then that only shows how weak the weapon really is when it needs crutches to help it perform. This same thing comes up everytime someone tried arguing “If you use CO and a multistatus fun you can boost the damage way further”. An Exalted Weapon Should Not Need A Crutch!

Understand that I am one of the few people that doesn’t hate Baruuk. So don’t you dare question the amount of time and effort I put into him.

 

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Just now, MirageKnight said:

Agreed. It sucks that Impact damage weapons are almost required to have Shattering Impact or Corrosive / Radiation builds to be remotely useful vs any kind of armor.

Yeah, and the sad part is that Desert Wind isn't that good at applying Shattering Impact due to the slow base attack speed.

You're more likely to just punch an enemy to death before the armor value even starts to drop low enough.

Having Radiation on my Baruuk is a huge help though, makes the level 80 Grineer go down faster.

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1 minute ago, Zekkii said:

You had the perfect opportunity to bring up Diwata and you missed it.  It's not that hard to maintain Hysteria, energy is extremely abundant.

you can but why the only thing it gives is the highest single target DPS in the game and invulnerability (if you are staying in it the heal is meaning less) I wish her 4 worked like barukes but based on damage taken (building rage) then again ESO kinda makes the enduring frames (nidus and baruke) suck sooo 

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1 minute ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I have 250% power strength, I dropped 5 whole forma into Baruuk and Desert Storm.

Maybe with the crit mod changes his damage is better, but with every test I’ve put him through he always performs far worse than the other exalted melees.

And if you require arcanes to get it’s damage up then that only shows how weak the weapon really is when it needs crutches to help it perform. This same thing comes up everytime someone tried arguing “If you use CO and a multistatus fun you can boost the damage way further”. An Exalted Weapon Should Not Need A Crutch!

Understand that I am one of the few people that doesn’t hate Baruuk. So don’t you dare question the amount of time and effort I put into him.

 

Yeah, that's another thing. You've got a point here.

I had to forma Baruuk's Desert Wind several times to make it effective against most factions. I believe DE didn't quite intend on him being a damage machine, so their pure-impact damage Exalted with range was their attempt at making him more of a defensive tool then an offensive one.

Even so, his Exalted starts much worse in practice then other warframe exalted weapons at the start, intentional or unintentional, it's still a pretty heavy gimp on his offensive capabilities when most enemies can easily resist his damage type.

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