The lazy frames

[(PSN)RazorPhoenix970]

Mesa, Saryn (Edit: I'm particularly referring to the passive damage gain on her 1) , Inaros, Octavia...these frames are the embodiment of laziness in Warframe, allow me to explain

Saryn Edit: Useful feedback made me realise my solution is busted😅 read it if you want but it will quite easily ruin any semblance of balance

Spoiler

 

All but one of her abilities are interactive, fun to use and well balanced, then we have Spores. The based god rework made her less complicated and clunky overall but inadvertently removed interactivity with her 1 that made playing her entire kit (except Miasma, it was terrible) interesting. Spores requires the player to do two things without much thought:
1) Apply spores to a target
2) Spread them
Then the spores do the work for the player, which while well intentioned from someone who plays the game it created a problem that has plagued her (yes, a disease pun) since her rework launched: it feels like the game is playing itself. People like this for efficiency purposes and that's perfectly understandable but "automated DPS" is a balancing nightmare because the comparison always arises "why use this frame/ability when I can press one button and kill the whole room", this is what Spores has always done but its current iteration is brain dead easy to use.
In my opinion great power/damage should come with complexity or effort. Saryn 2.0 had complexity but it's power was limited, more underpowered than balanced. Saryn 3.0 has great power with no complexity whatsoever, this makes her efficient but way too easy. Solution:

Saryn 2.0 spores were a vector for your damage, they spread toxin procs inflicted upon targets already affected by spores. I believe this was the perfect way for spores to work. Current spores deal corrosive procs and corrosive damage that builds up on its own. Why not combine the two aspects. Have spores inflicted their corrosive ticks as is, however they deal toxin damage based on 25% of up to 5 or so of the strongest instances of toxin damage dealt by you to the target Note: I mean any toxin damage not just from gas or toxin procs. With the rest of her abilities as they are, this should allow for an even stronger feeling of this being the toxin warframe and also gives toxic lash even more of an impact in the working of her spores, makes her effective against Corpus and gives her a necessary counter outside of Nullifiers: Toxic Ancients

 

Mesa
 

Spoiler

Peacemakers, of course. Mesa is supposed to be the gunslinger frame but it feels like Harrow and Gauss (even Wisp) are closer to gunslingers than her, why?, because you are actually involved in the shooting. Peacemaker is an aimbot that detaches you from the shooting and has you watching her animations, but what if I told you there is a place where Peacemaker feels like a gunslinging ability and you can still see her admittedly awesome animations, the Conclave. In conclave you actually have to aim with Peacemaker, it will kill quite quickly but it requires skill to use, I wish that aspect could be translated to PVE along with suggestions to follow to make her feel more pew pew and less like "I'll hold the fire button until everything is dead"(yes I'm aware that's kinda how automatic weapons work).

Firstly have Peacemakers behave like regular guns, you can aim down sights, aim glide, wall latch, headshot all that nice stuff and have power strength not only affect their damage but also their fire rate(remove the focusing reticle thing), then have her Peacemakers be able to be combined into a single shot rifle or sniper and rework Ballistic Battery to provide a damage buff (treated like Rhino's Roar) to the next one or two shots from any gun. The last suggestion stems from my dumbfounded frustration that the GUNSLINGER is worthless in content that heavily emphasises the use of guns (Eidolons, Orbs), this is criminal and why is everyone cool with this? Sorry. In dual pistol form Peacemaker can drain energy per second as is while in single shot/ sniper mode they drain energy per shot (something like 7 at base). Shatter shield is too good a protection ability for a frame who isn't defensive in the slightest, have it such that when she uses automatic weaponry(including dual peacemakers) she gets 50% evasion that scales up to 80% to evade with strength and fire rate, she gets projectile deflection then damage reduction while standing still  with semi automatic weapons. Her passives numbers need a boost and Shooting Gallery is perfectly balanced as all abilities should be. Since she won't be an aimbot anymore she should be usable for content which previously had been untargetable by aimbot.

Octavia (being OP does not mean people will play you)
 

Spoiler

Imagine the absolute power with no complexity of Saryn's Spores being an entire kit. Octavia is absurdly powerful but isn't played because she's boring, really really boring which is odd because she looks as jolly and fun as Mirage. Octavia is the ultimate proof that trvialising content is not fun at all. Nocturne could be changed from invisibility to evasion (75% maybe), which should give at least some risk to playing Octavia. Amp is good, even resonator is fine(might need to be tuned down,(attempt at a music pun there) because the way it turns off enemies and has them making a conga line is a tad ridiculous and counter intutive) but Mallet I honestly do not know what to do with Mallet. Mallet is busted no doubt but I have no idea how to fix it. I'm open to sugestions    

Inaros (More about the lazy nature of the frame)

Spoiler

 

People will defend this frame tooth and nail but he is Wukong pre-rework. His abilities exist and are useful in their own right but the most anyone is going to cast is Dessication and that's it, the rest of his abilities are either too clunky, too slow or counter intuitive. Let's have a look:
Devour- Granted it makes you invulnerable but its heal is slower than your passive with your 1, creating a sand minion is impossible at mid levels and further without absolutely wasting your time and the minion itself is the definition of useless. Nyx's minion can actually deal damage, Nekros's minions are numerous enough to draw away aggro same with Revenant, Venari is actually an excellent healing source for Khora in both attack mode and healing mode but Inaros's minion does nothing and provides nothing

Sandstorm- Memes are no reason for an ability to exist and this ability should go to the aether where Super Jump and Bounce reside. Its CC is garbage, it sends enemies flying off unpredictably, you can still take damage, you move painfully slow and offer nothing to any mission except grief with the exception of maybe interceptions if people don't feel like killing

Scarab Swarm- Armor is laughably useless in this game but that is more of a problem with damage balancing and calculations. The scarab projectile however is inherently terrible, the targets caught by the sand trap are killable (rightfully so) which allows allies to just kill them which they gladly will. Before you tell me it's usable after 2 hours of survival because are harder to kill, that is no justification for an ability to be unusable everywhere else in the game. The ability's propagation is dreadful, it spreads to one enemy at a time per intial enemy affected which is three at maximum in normal gameplay. We complained about this with Khora but no one said a word about Inaros, why, because no one ever uses it but its there and its a problem. The healing can be good after snaring 8 or more enemies but you can't wander too far from it, so its Blood Altar with a set up time that would have a Harrow heal the Arbitration defense operative from 2 HP to full 5 times over.

My frustration is evident isn't it. That's in part because there are frames who behave similarly to Inaros but are way better in terms of being useful, these are Nidus and Hildryn. They don't just rely on their respective EHP pools to survive but also their abilities which makes them more engaging to play. Nidus builds his stacks to become more powerful but he isn't just walking around being a meatbag he works for his stacks. Hildryn is a shield Inaros but unlike Inaros all her abilities have their uses at any level that you don't have to forcibly make up in your head and they along with her passive make her engagingly tough to kill.
His sand theme is wasted on being a lazy bag of health. Yes whether a frame's theme is wasted or not is purely subjective but look: Nyx is the psychic frame some people don't feel this translated enough in game but its there and it is used and it's cire to her gameplay, some people don't like Wisp's ability design but in terms of being a teleporting ghost with flowers it works very well, some people say Khora has no theme but she does, she's an ensnarer and a huntress of sorts, the chainwhip shows that, the way abilities work together show that
But with Inaros the sand is just there for the sake of being there, it is lazy design that lead to a lazy frame and it ticks me off. Okay, suggestions:

Passive
The heal aspect of his passive is excellent but the bleedout aspect is the polar opposite, it is the worst passive out of all passives. It very quickly stops working entirely on enemies. I would change it so that he has half as many revives as other warframes (2 at base, 4 with arcanes), a bleedout timer of 7 seconds that cannot be changed by any means but he can revive himself by siphoning the life force from ANY enemy regardless of defenses for 3 seconds which can be cancelled by nullifiers. The idea is allow the entirety of his passive to work at any level while also disincentivising dying because as Inaros you really shouldn't be dying.

Dessication
It's overpowered plain and simple. It blinds enemies for a long time, opens them up to finishers and has a ridiculous range. I would have the range and duration reduced, the ability to open up finishers removed, the blind to remain and apply a debuff I'll call "Sand Curse" for now which will last for about 16-20 seconds at base

Devour
Renaming it to QuickSand, it will essentially be a sped up Devour where Inaros will spawn a small circle of quick sand at the enemy's feet, which the enemy will quickly sink into until only their head is exposed while Inaros will simultaneously quickly pull that circle (and in turn the enemy) towards his feet. While an enemy caught in quick sand they can be shot freely, open to ground finishers and health is siphoned to Inaros over time determined by his power duration and strength. If they're affected by Sand curse however if Inaros performs a ground finisher on them (triggering his passive heal) or othrwise killed the curse is dispelled, spreading the curse for the remaining duration of the curse to enemies (in about a 10m range) in a pulse and all allies (excluding Inaros himself) in a sizeable range will be healed for the remaining potential health that could have been restored over 3 seconds

Sandstorm
Something like Zephyr's Tornadoes but with more control. You spawn them one at a time up to three or four. They stay in place or move around in a small circle to mimick a localised sandstorm and transfer damage to enemies in a manner similar to Tornadoes. Most importantly enemies caught in Sandstorm stay in them, no flying all over and all of Inaros's abilities can still affect the enemies.

Scarab Swarm
Charging it drains Inaros's health (not way too much, like 25%) and spawns up to seven or so flying scarab beetles which will fly out and bother and distract enemies...you know, like bugs. If the bugged enemies happen to be sand cursed 20% of their defense value is added to Inaros's armor or health (shields add to health and Armor adds to, uhm, armor) (if both defense types exist the greater of the two is taken). The bugs should persist for about 10-15 seconds. With the gathered values of health and armor the Inaros can tap Scarab swarm to convert them all into pure health or armor, so that players are free to choose to remain with the combination of health and armor, go for pure additional armor or pure additional health for the memes and are free to cycle between them at any time depending on the situation. Summoning the bugs again will collect new values and overwrite the old ones once the bugs expire

 

A certain recurring fringe defense mechanic
 

Spoiler

Evasion is such an underexplored defense mechanic, we saw it with Titania then Agility drift (not too sure which came first) then never again, it could really serve well as the glass cannon defense. You can't stand still and face tank stuff instead you have to be active and move around to make most effective use of it. Giving damage reduction everywhere is getting really really stale now, I'd really love more defensive mechanics to keep ourselves alive. Also could you buff shield recharge, an upper limit of 20s to recharge and a realistic expected recharge time of about 8-10s feels real bad.

TL,DR Change these four pillars of laziness to make 'em more active, engaged and arguably more powerful. Oh and more evasion please

     
 

Edited November 19, 2019 by (PS4)RazorPhoenix970
Clarifications on what I'm targeting with Saryn

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

your missing a lot of frames if you think those are the only lazy ones 

[Melanholic7]

After i saw ur “Octavia isnt played often cause she is op and thats boring” a laughted and understood that ur post is fluff and shouldnt be taken as serious thoughts.  

Cause Octavia 1) lack of survivability - except her invis she is super squish framw 2) Her buffs are clunky to use. Invis is okeish to activate. 3) Her ult is helpful on station missions and thats all.  

She is just not good enough to use her often. 🙂  

Inaros it the only one lazyframe and thats GOOD. Cause there should be at least one such frame. This makes him unique. He isnt scaried of nullifiers, he doesnt need to worry about using skills , u czn just take him and play with ur weapons, not frame skills. Thats awesome. And only nab will compare him to Hild, cause her shields sucks - shields are not working with armor (my inaros has 2500 armor which is huge DR), and shields wont stop dmg types like toxin so lol - really, comparing this weak thing to Inaros??

Edited November 18, 2019 by Melanholic7

[selig_fay]

All these frames are not OP by default and provide normal gameplay. Just arcanes make them OP. 

About defensive mechanics - reducing accuracy and evasion will never work in shooter because you don't have 1kkk hp to actually allow 30% evasion to ignore 30% damage. And if precision reduction works with distance (and now we remember about the narrow corridors in which you are constantly.), then evasion depends only on probability. Since you can't stand 10 blows on a glass cannon-it won't work.

[Pizzarugi]

7 minutes ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

your missing a lot of frames if you think those are the only lazy ones 

Pressing 1 or 4 to nuke rooms of enemies is the apex of laziness. Not only is it lazy for the player running the frame that can do it, it encourages laziness for people who team up with them. Beyond making it easier to report people, leeching wouldn't be such a big issue in the game if people couldn't rely on teaming up with someone who can just blow through the mission without any help.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

1 minute ago, Pizzarugi said:

Pressing 1 or 4 to nuke rooms of enemies is the apex of laziness. Not only is it lazy for the player running the frame that can do it, it encourages laziness for people who team up with them. Beyond making it easier to report people, leeching wouldn't be such a big issue in the game if people couldn't rely on teaming up with someone who can just blow through the mission without any help.

i can do that with most frames , most frames can be created to be nukers and press # power and win , you just need the know how 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Saryn is far from lazy when actually used properly.

You want a lazy frame for the list. Revenant, you just press his 4 and that’s it. No reason to use the rest of his abilities.

 

[Raqiya]

1 hour ago, Melanholic7 said:

After i saw ur “Octavia isnt played often cause she is op and thats boring” a laughted and understood that ur post is fluff and shouldnt be taken as serious thoughts.  

Cause Octavia 1) lack of survivability - except her invis she is super squish framw 2) Her buffs are clunky to use. Invis is okeish to activate. 3) Her ult is helpful on station missions and thats all.  

She is just not good enough to use her often. 🙂  

1) She has the the best stealth ability(Easy to refresh, has a long duration, shareable) in the game, you can't kill what you can't hit/see.
2)Her mallet makes her stupidly good for defence missions, the enemy literally kills themselves and combined with stealth its indeed easy mode.
3)Her 4 is a decent damage boost for the entire party.

Edited November 19, 2019 by Raqiya

[Raqiya]

1 minute ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Saryn is far from lazy when actually used properly.

You want a lazy frame for the list. Revenant, you just press his 4 and that’s it. No reason to use the rest of his abilities.

 

besides the occasional mesmer skin.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

9 minutes ago, Raqiya said:

besides the occasional mesmer skin.

Eh, it’s not that good.

[(PSN)RazorPhoenix970]

3 hours ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

your missing a lot of frames if you think those are the only lazy ones 

I was simply addressing the ones I felt were the worst offenders, woof

3 hours ago, Melanholic7 said:

After i saw ur “Octavia isnt played often cause she is op and thats boring” a laughted and understood that ur post is fluff and shouldnt be taken as serious thoughts.  

Cause Octavia 1) lack of survivability - except her invis she is super squish framw 2) Her buffs are clunky to use. Invis is okeish to activate. 3) Her ult is helpful on station missions and thats all.  

She is just not good enough to use her often. 🙂  

Inaros it the only one lazyframe and thats GOOD. Cause there should be at least one such frame. This makes him unique. He isnt scaried of nullifiers, he doesnt need to worry about using skills , u czn just take him and play with ur weapons, not frame skills. Thats awesome. And only nab will compare him to Hild, cause her shields sucks - shields are not working with armor (my inaros has 2500 armor which is huge DR), and shields wont stop dmg types like toxin so lol - really, comparing this weak thing to Inaros??

1) Octavia's lack of survivability is almost completely negated by refreshable invisibility, which you'll always use

2) I made no mention of her other buffs because they're actually balanced though clunky to acquire

3) Didn't I say Amp is ok or you just went straight to typing as soon you disagreed with me, it seems like the latter is true.

Arguing being lazy as being unique baffles me, but read the first sentence on Inaros...I saw this kind of response coming. My point on HIldryn is that you interact with her abilities and shields to make her effective, for example maintaining her overshields prevents toxin damage and slash procs from bypassing her shields but that can only be maintained by active play at higher levels. On damage reduction I'm offering you even more armor than ever but no, you'd rather have him be lazy. Oh let me guess, you didn't see that

3 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

Pressing 1 or 4 to nuke rooms of enemies is the apex of laziness. Not only is it lazy for the player running the frame that can do it, it encourages laziness for people who team up with them. Beyond making it easier to report people, leeching wouldn't be such a big issue in the game if people couldn't rely on teaming up with someone who can just blow through the mission without any help.

This is a good summary of my thoughts👏

3 hours ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

i can do that with most frames , most frames can be created to be nukers and press # power and win , you just need the know how 

I'm not saying nukers must disappear they have a place in the game but most other nukers require interaction to work. Equinox, Day form Maim must be charged first and armor reduction must be run to mitigate its most potent counter, Nova's Anti-Matter drop has to be charged by the player, Garuda's Dread Mirror has to be charged by absorbing as much enemy damage as possible, Excalibur requires knowledge on how melee multipliers work in order to deal with armor without having to strip any of it and you actually have face the enemy then swoosh, swoosh, do you see my point. Most other nukes require interaction of sorts in order to work, with Mesa press and hold 4 while rotating the camera as you see fit (after at least casting 3 of course) I want her to be more than that.

 

2 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Saryn is far from lazy when actually used properly.

You want a lazy frame for the list. Revenant, you just press his 4 and that’s it. No reason to use the rest of his abilities.

 

Your persistence in bashing Revenant in any way possible is consistent to the point of being commendable. Outside of Arbitrations, his 2 is probably his most frequently used ability not his 4. Is his 4 bad, absolutely on that we can agree but its far from being the crutch of his kit, his other abilities do have their uses when the disco show doesn't work, I wish I could say the same for Inaros when being a meatbag doesn't hit the spot. On Saryn I guess I failed to get my point across, on the whole she is very interactive but the way Spores deal damage isn't and Spores are the business end of her kit, I wish for the player to be more involved in determining the damage Spores deal while maintaining her pre-existing interactive playstyle to make for a complete fun nuke

2 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Eh, it’s not that good.

Again persistence😂

[(PSN)RazorPhoenix970]

4 hours ago, zhellon said:

All these frames are not OP by default and provide normal gameplay. Just arcanes make them OP. 

About defensive mechanics - reducing accuracy and evasion will never work in shooter because you don't have 1kkk hp to actually allow 30% evasion to ignore 30% damage. And if precision reduction works with distance (and now we remember about the narrow corridors in which you are constantly.), then evasion depends only on probability. Since you can't stand 10 blows on a glass cannon-it won't work.

Octavia's Mallet is broke as soon she's out of the foundry

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

37 minutes ago, (PS4)RazorPhoenix970 said:

Your persistence in bashing Revenant in any way possible is consistent to the point of being commendable. Outside of Arbitrations, his 2 is probably his most frequently used ability not his 4. Is his 4 bad, absolutely on that we can agree but its far from being the crutch of his kit, his other abilities do have their uses when the disco show doesn't work, I wish I could say the same for Inaros when being a meatbag doesn't hit the spot. On Saryn I guess I failed to get my point across, on the whole she is very interactive but the way Spores deal damage isn't and Spores are the business end of her kit, I wish for the player to be more involved in determining the damage Spores deal while maintaining her pre-existing interactive playstyle to make for a complete fun nuke

Again persistence😂

The only thing is 1 and 3 are better than the rest of his kit at is sucking. You’ve got a CC/Synergy anchor ability that can be killed by squad mates rendering it useless, and a terrible escape ability on a frame that’s supposed to be a tank.

And trust me. If they made spores scale off player interaction instead of passively raise, Saryn would be broken.

Edited November 19, 2019 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[(PSN)RazorPhoenix970]

4 hours ago, zhellon said:

About defensive mechanics - reducing accuracy and evasion will never work in shooter because you don't have 1kkk hp to actually allow 30% evasion to ignore 30% damage. And if precision reduction works with distance (and now we remember about the narrow corridors in which you are constantly.), then evasion depends only on probability. Since you can't stand 10 blows on a glass cannon-it won't work.

My half solution(because it doesn't account for Bombards and other homing projectiles) is to give high evasion, yes it doesn't protect when they do eventually get hit but that's actually the point of it. Supplementing evasion with your own movement is what makes evasion powerful, being more active which is the main point of the post. I suggested evasion more for it incentiviising active movement than it being a solid standalone mechanic.

[(PSN)RazorPhoenix970]

1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

And trust me. If they made spores scale off player interaction instead of passively raise, Saryn would be broken.

Which is fine by me😂😂

[(XBOX)UndeadGalaxyWar]

5 hours ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

i can do that with most frames , most frames can be created to be nukers and press # power and win , you just need the know how 

This is the truth right here. Learn the mechanics and then judge. 

[Hellmaker2004]

Saryn, spore spreading lazy.
Wat

If it was "Saryn Toxic Lash is Lazy" i could understand it, or "Saryn and Miasma" is Lazy then sure. But spore?

I mean sure if you build spore that deal no damage with no status chance then they will manage themselves and spread, a shame they will not do jack S#&$ as well.

[Shaburanigud]

6 hours ago, (PS4)RazorPhoenix970 said:

But with Inaros the sand is just there for the sake of being there, it is lazy design that lead to a lazy frame and it ticks me off. Okay, suggestions:

I agree with this entirely. I started the whole game just to get Inaros and fullfill the sand god but was frustrated when all I can do was a lazy tank.

BUT with that being said. I don't think we should erase that build
While I understand you don't like the 'Lazy Tank' build, I feel it still should be there as it has been so long and it makes him a good frame for beginners to experiment weapons.
Not to mention the giant fanbase who likes it. 

No its his skills that doesn't full fill his fantasy.
His skills are powerful but very clunky, yet he has potential to be easily fixed. 
Expanding on his 'consume health' mechanic
Even in lore he didn't die while fighting, he died because he used his abilities(sandstorm) too much.
Let me give some suggestions.

6 hours ago, (PS4)RazorPhoenix970 said:

Passive
The heal aspect of his passive is excellent but the bleedout aspect is the polar opposite, it is the worst passive out of all passives. It very quickly stops working entirely on enemies. I would change it so that he has half as many revives as other warframes (2 at base, 4 with arcanes), a bleedout timer of 7 seconds that cannot be changed by any means but he can revive himself by siphoning the life force from ANY enemy regardless of defenses for 3 seconds which can be cancelled by nullifiers. The idea is allow the entirety of his passive to work at any level while also disincentivising dying because as Inaros you really shouldn't be dying.

This can very make it too powerful or too weak depending on how you do it.
I simply suggest that this:
sarcophagus will siphon more life from enemies affected by his abilities 1,2 and 4.
It's simple yet makes it vital for inaros to spread his more sand to enemies to stay alive. More use of skills? More immortality.
This won't be that important for the lazy tank build(won't die anyway) but it will matter when he uses alot of his abilities and therefore, consume a lot of his health
 

6 hours ago, (PS4)RazorPhoenix970 said:

Dessication
It's overpowered plain and simple.

This should stay the same. Yes it's overpowered, but it is his only ability that is powerful.

 

6 hours ago, (PS4)RazorPhoenix970 said:

Devour
Renaming it to QuickSand, it will essentially be a sped up Devour where Inaros will spawn a small circle of quick sand at the enemy's feet, which the enemy will quickly sink into until only their head is exposed while Inaros will simultaneously quickly pull that circle (and in turn the enemy) towards his feet.

I feel this is too complicated.
I think we should expand on his sandshadows.
From now on, once he devoured an enemy, he can summon a sandshadow of that enemy at the cost of his health (percentage base).
5 at max, They will taunt enemies and fight until they die. When they die they will blind enemies (like his 1) within a small radius.

 

6 hours ago, (PS4)RazorPhoenix970 said:

Sandstorm
Something like Zephyr's Tornadoes but with more control. You spawn them one at a time up to three or four.

I feel this just makes him Zephyr 2.0. But yes he needs more control. Also this may have the potential to be a 'team player'
After all he is "The Protector". He defended a whole planet (Mars) with this until he died of exhaustion.
I suggest this: 
Sandstorm will now spend health instead of energy. He can use it until he dies.
The lower health Inaros has, he will gain more range, power, movement speed and dmg reduction on his 3.
Instead of just flinging enemies all around, Sandstorm will now trap affected enemies inside the vortex until he stops.
Once he stops all affected enemies will fling off toward the direction Inaros is looking.
All allies within the sandstorm will share Inaros' armor, dmg reduction and health recovery.
- Synergy: Enemies also affected by his 2 or 4 will allow Inaros to siphon health quickly. This can also be shared to teammates within the range of sandstorm

for Scarab Swarm, its actually quite a good and unique skill
Just not a really strong skill. I wouldn't mind if they leave it as it is. 
Along with the synergies I suggested from above, I think it would become quite useful.
Though It does need a new animation. Can't tell the difference between this and his 2.

 

This way we can keep his lazy build but open up a new fantasy fulfilling build.
One would have to balance off how they build it since the now using his 2 & 3 will constantly consumes health, reducing his tankiness.

[selig_fay]

4 часа назад, (PS4)RazorPhoenix970 сказал:

Octavia's Mallet is broke as soon she's out of the foundry

In fact, it is solved very easily. Simply, if the Mallet will lose damage faster, it will be much less effective.

3 часа назад, (PS4)RazorPhoenix970 сказал:

My half solution(because it doesn't account for Bombards and other homing projectiles) is to give high evasion, yes it doesn't protect when they do eventually get hit but that's actually the point of it. Supplementing evasion with your own movement is what makes evasion powerful, being more active which is the main point of the post. I suggested evasion more for it incentiviising active movement than it being a solid standalone mechanic.

The problem is exactly how evasion works. Titania has high evasion, but it doesn't work very well because I can't use it.

The only option that I see is a system of evasion on the basis of endurance. That is, you can get up to 100% evasion (that is, guaranteed not to take damage), but when evasion works, it decreases. And when evasion doesn't work, it recovers over time. Then it will make some sense.

The problem is that if you can withstand only 2 hits, then 50% evasion can absorb all 2 hits, can absorb 1 hit, and may not work at all. As I said, this will work when you can withstand 1,000 hits because the probability will stabilize. But when the number of trials is small, it doesn't look like a thing to use.

But if you want mechanics, you can look at the rakta dark dagger effect. This mechanics, when properly set up, can become quite strong. Now it only works against enemies who have not been alarmed, making it useless.

Edited November 19, 2019 by zhellon

[selig_fay]

4 часа назад, (PS4)RazorPhoenix970 сказал:

Arguing being lazy as being unique baffles me, but read the first sentence on Inaros...I saw this kind of response coming. My point on HIldryn is that you interact with her abilities and shields to make her effective, for example maintaining her overshields prevents toxin damage and slash procs from bypassing her shields but that can only be maintained by active play at higher levels. On damage reduction I'm offering you even more armor than ever but no, you'd rather have him be lazy. Oh let me guess, you didn't see that

8 часов назад, Melanholic7 сказал:

Inaros it the only one lazyframe and thats GOOD. Cause there should be at least one such frame. This makes him unique. He isnt scaried of nullifiers, he doesnt need to worry about using skills , u czn just take him and play with ur weapons, not frame skills. Thats awesome. And only nab will compare him to Hild, cause her shields sucks - shields are not working with armor (my inaros has 2500 armor which is huge DR), and shields wont stop dmg types like toxin so lol - really, comparing this weak thing to Inaros??

I play Hildryn as Inaros. The damage of the toxin can be reduced by the antitoxin. Slash/toxin prock is not a problem when you use arcane grace. Moreover, they activate arcanes, which is useful to me. Simply, people's problem is that they have only 300 hp and do not understand that the Umbra set gives very much.I think Inaros is bad and hildryn is ideal.

 

 

Edited November 19, 2019 by zhellon

[Xzorn]

What level range are we talking here because at Sorties majority of frames are lazy frames.

You wana go to lvl 400 Solo then tell me Mesa or Saryn are still lazy frames and I'll laugh.

All I need to make lvl 100 lazy is a floating no-self damage AoE weapon. Don't even need a frame.

[Xzorn]

9 hours ago, Melanholic7 said:

After i saw ur “Octavia isnt played often cause she is op and thats boring” a laughted and understood that ur post is fluff and shouldnt be taken as serious thoughts.  

Cause Octavia 1) lack of survivability - except her invis she is super squish framw 2) Her buffs are clunky to use. Invis is okeish to activate. 3) Her ult is helpful on station missions and thats all.  

She is just not good enough to use her often. 🙂 

 

Interesting...

Lemme know if this looks fun.

I hate that this was one of my most watched videos because it was the most boring I've ever done and never played her since.

She can solo to level cap or just carry the whole group to level cap on her own.

Octavia is broken as hell. I left this run out of boredom. Even mocked it calling her "Bored Frame" in the description.

[Melanholic7]

57 минут назад, Xzorn сказал:

 

Interesting...

Lemme know if this looks fun.

I hate that this was one of my most watched videos because it was the most boring I've ever done and never played her since.

She can solo to level cap or just carry the whole group to level cap on her own.

Octavia is broken as hell. I left this run out of boredom. Even mocked it calling her "Bored Frame" in the description.

Ehm, and like i told - for stationary missions yesh, she is. But this strategy will be useless in missions like exterminate, spy, resque, capture; 1 mistake at refrrshing invis - and she is dead, cause zero survivability cause no def mods and abilities. Sounds like OP frame,yeeeeeah. Such OP, much wow. =/ 

and thats funny showing game zone which wasnt planned by developers (like they said - they dislike those stupid endurance runs) - and asking “is its interrsting” , sure its not, but its boring with any frame at this point. 

Edited November 19, 2019 by Melanholic7

[(PSN)RazorPhoenix970]

1 hour ago, Xzorn said:

What level range are we talking here because at Sorties majority of frames are lazy frames.

You wana go to lvl 400 Solo then tell me Mesa or Saryn are still lazy frames and I'll laugh.

All I need to make lvl 100 lazy is a floating no-self damage AoE weapon. Don't even need a frame.

Judging by Rio's glyph I'm guessing you're an endurance runner, don't slap me please but what I was referring to (more with Mesa) was that the business end abilities feel a bit detached. Upon further re-examination Saryn is ok as is, the solution I suggested would make your endurance runs easier slightly easier by making your gear determine Spores' damage this is a strong DPS buff for you but makes lower level balance even more of a  nightmare. I intended to change Mesa to make her more interactive and able to engage with more content (I had Eidolons and Orbs in mind)

[(PSN)RazorPhoenix970]

4 hours ago, Hellmaker2004 said:

Saryn, spore spreading lazy.
Wat

If it was "Saryn Toxic Lash is Lazy" i could understand it, or "Saryn and Miasma" is Lazy then sure. But spore?

I mean sure if you build spore that deal no damage with no status chance then they will manage themselves and spread, a shame they will not do jack S#&$ as well.

I was referring to the passive damage buildup not the spreading itself. The spreading is involved but the damage buildup isn't, my solution was pointed out to be potentially game breaking, so I'm dropping that for now until I can either fix the math or come up with a better idea. Let me reiterate its spores passive damage buildup I have an issue literally everything else about how she works is fine