Glaive weapons

[TheBlackAce21]

I was going to report this as a bug because I believe it to be one, that or its an oversight. Either way I settled on putting it here since I believe it to be more appropriate. I was testing out some melee stuff in the simulacrum and realized that glaive throws are now classified as heavy attacks when manually initiated with the alt fire mechanic for heavy attacks as per the melee changes. At least that's what I thought initially. Come to find out I am wrong. Glaive throws using the "heavy attack" button as I have come to think of it, do initiate a throw but it seems that they are not classified as heavy attacks. As such they get no benefit from the heavy attack multiplier, it does not consume the combo counter and because it isn't a "heavy attack" it can't proc life strike. Which means that the glaives themselves can't proc life strike at all and I think this is a serious error in judgement.

Why do I think its an error? Because of the redeemer and sarpa tbh. They get range based attacks within their combos, can stack combo multiplier and their alt fire does a single shot that counts as a heavy attack and gets all the benefits therein. I don't have a problem with this actually and I kind of love the mechanic because it makes the game play with those 2 melee weapons feel like a lot of fun to stack up combo counter for a well placed heavy attack. Its fun game play to me and certainly more fun than either weapon used to be under the old system. I just wish that the glaives got the same treatment.

My proposed solution to this situation: There are currently 2 ways to throw a glaive, holding the melee button (just like we used to) and hitting the alt fire button. I think that holding the melee button should do a normal throw that is capable of stacking up combo points without counting as a heavy attack, meaning it can't proc life strike or reap any benefits from heavy attack mod bonus. However I think it would be super cool to have the heavy attack button simply do what it says on the tin. A heavy throw attack with its own windup time that benefits from heavy attack multipliers and bonuses like double crit chance from true steel. This would add the ability to proc life strike and give glaives the same breath of fresh air from the new system that the redeemer and sarpa get, not to mention it would actually be useful as a utility weapon for life steal purposes which would be super cool. Let me know what ya'll think of this :)

[Tyreaus]

FWIW, they have the "heavy attack" portion on detonate (heavy attack button while Glaive is mid-air). Likely because they want it to be able to generate combo at range as a throwing weapon, but there's only one ranged attack option, whereas gunblades have ranged attacks throughout their combos.

As far as the solution goes: agreed, but it likely needs a different input schematic somehow. There are current problems with the hold E input that has players asking for an option to toggle it off. It's possible that might be the only solution if it's an engine problem. If that's the case, that can mean disabling part of Glaive functionality. If it were bound to something like block+heavy attack (or press block during wind-up), or there was some other button sequence that could toggle the heavy throw on, it may work better, depending on how it feels for players and functions with the quick swap melee stuff.

[TheBlackAce21]

I see, I didn't realize the heavy attack was built into the throw like that, it feels....weird though....a heavy throw vs a normal throw would feel so much easier. I can see myself being in the middle of thick combat and not wanting to throw my glaive and have to stare at it to time the heavy attack button. I would just want to throw it into a crowd, turn my attention elsewhere and let it come back to me. WF is too fast paced a game to have mechanics that require that much attention on one action to get the benefits.

Nice to know life strike et. al will work though in the meantime. As for the holding E mechanic, yea I hate it too. I would prefer a special button input to having to hold melee, it just doesn't feel responsive enough for the same reason given above (fast paced game and all that). I hope they give glaives another pass in the near future. I want to love them, and I have tried several times over the years to include them in my builds but they always just feel clunky when I feel like they should be elegant instruments of dancing death. At least the basic melee combos feel good now though. Almost there, just a little further xD

 

::edit:: just found another annoyance, if you don't time the heavy attack when the throw is going out, it doesn't even let you use it...the timing on it feels so precise its annoying.

Edited November 19, 2019 by TheBlackAce21

[SirLethal]

enough people bring attention to this we can get it fixed

[Tyreaus]

13 hours ago, TheBlackAce21 said:

I see, I didn't realize the heavy attack was built into the throw like that, it feels....weird though....a heavy throw vs a normal throw would feel so much easier.

Very much agreed. Though I will say that, while it's not easy by any stretch and one shouldn't have to do so just to get benefit out of the heavy attack function, there's an odd sense of satisfaction learning how to time explosions to nuke groups of enemies even blind. I've learned to gauge distances and judge the flight speed, so I know when-abouts to explode it even if I'm not looking. Especially fun when dual wielding.

I mean.
Well.
There was, until we had to build combo to get that strength out of them...

[Frenotx]

Don't forget dual wield mode! The most recent change to glaives trashed their damage output.