The Duviri Paradox - Please don't add Time Traveling...

[Formous]

6 minutes ago, Corvid said:

No, it's generic in that pretty much all of its factions draw from extremely common sci-fi tropes that were in existence long before GW started using them. Super soldiers, bug wars, robot wars, space elves, and at least three separate instances of "Ancient Evils".

Warhammer is generic. That doesn't mean it's bad, or that the writers don't do some interesting stuff with the premise on occasion, but it is not at all an original work.

Its actually conversions from Warhammer Fantasy.  The Space Elves are the High Elves for example. Chaos is Chaos and pretty much 1 for 1.  As for 40k, it has Ancient evils because it's a ancient Universe, even humanity is ancient in it's own respect.  Super Soldiers? yeah..Because who finds normal soldiers only interesting. Besides with everything else in 40k, the Super Soldiers squash quite easy.  I think it's not that it's generic, in that they have taken what could be boring and made something really, really interetsing out of it. Only so many ideas under the sun, but if we think of Tenno as Super Soldiers, I give you Psykers. Space Marines? Uh...Bombards...only better.  Tyranids? Well Starcraft kinda stole the Zerg from the Nids funnily enough. And I do mean that quite literally. Actually, even the Terran Marines are based on the Space Marines.

In a very broad sense it is Generic, but in the nitty and Gritty, it is vastly interesting.  No Super soldier is alike, no culture is the same.  They are fundamentally more human then most other universes. I highlight for you Stormtroopers versus Imperial Gaurdsmen. I suppose really is that if there is something Generic, it's usually done with such airs of mystique and awe to leave you wanting more. Thats what I love about 40k.

[Isokaze_BestKaze]

Space Orks are the best thing GW ever had the idea to add in their 40k setting. Their whole concept is hilarious.

We're talking an essentially immortal race that is having so much fun fighting everything they backstab each other so the fun can last longer. We're talking a bunch of idiots who believes in themselves so hard they warp reality and create impossible things that works because they believe it will work. They paint their ships Red because RED GOES FASTAH, they paint their stealth troops in purple because "Did you ever see a purple ork ?" and it works.

I think I never saw such an original concept for a race anywhere else. And it's so ridiculous and dialed up to 11 it's actually a very fun race overall and ironically one of the most powerful of the universe of 40k if only they stopped fighting each others for fun.

 

Off topic over.

Edited November 20, 2019 by Isokaze_BestKaze

[Corvid]

1 hour ago, Formous said:

Its actually conversions from Warhammer Fantasy.  The Space Elves are the High Elves for example. Chaos is Chaos and pretty much 1 for 1.  As for 40k, it has Ancient evils because it's a ancient Universe, even humanity is ancient in it's own respect.  Super Soldiers? yeah..Because who finds normal soldiers only interesting. Besides with everything else in 40k, the Super Soldiers squash quite easy.  I think it's not that it's generic, in that they have taken what could be boring and made something really, really interetsing out of it. Only so many ideas under the sun, but if we think of Tenno as Super Soldiers, I give you Psykers. Space Marines? Uh...Bombards...only better.  Tyranids? Well Starcraft kinda stole the Zerg from the Nids funnily enough. And I do mean that quite literally. Actually, even the Terran Marines are based on the Space Marines.

In a very broad sense it is Generic, but in the nitty and Gritty, it is vastly interesting.  No Super soldier is alike, no culture is the same.  They are fundamentally more human then most other universes. I highlight for you Stormtroopers versus Imperial Gaurdsmen. I suppose really is that if there is something Generic, it's usually done with such airs of mystique and awe to leave you wanting more. Thats what I love about 40k.

I'm aware of everything you just said. Still doesn't change the fact that Warhammer isn't nearly as original as its fans like to claim it is.

[ILOHARTA]

15 hours ago, iLightning13 said:

Looks more like an alternate reality

what about thinking in therms of timelines?

[SilentMobius]

16 hours ago, Vyra said:

Really, im a fan of science fiction except for that one part.. this is due to the logical flaws that come with it...

IF anyone could time travel, they could go back and stop specific events from happening...the Tenno could go back and stop the Zariman Zero frome netering whatever.. they could stop the orokin from sending the units into TAU system or further more they could go back and exterminate the root of the Technocyte Virus...

That entirely depends on the metaphysics of DE's take on temporal theory. There is no obligation for your assertions to be a viable problem.

There are many, may ways that any form of non-linear temporal engineering could work.

[Loza03]

2 hours ago, Corvid said:

No, it's generic in that pretty much all of its factions draw from extremely common sci-fi tropes that were in existence long before GW started using them. Super soldiers, bug wars, robot wars, space elves, and at least three separate instances of "Ancient Evils".

Warhammer is generic. That doesn't mean it's bad, or that the writers don't do some interesting stuff with the premise on occasion, but it is not at all an original work.

See also: Shakespeare.

Originality is not the same thing as quality.

[Corvid]

22 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

See also: Shakespeare.

Originality is not the same thing as quality.

Exactly. Thank you.

[Firedtm]

17 hours ago, Vyra said:

IF anyone could time travel, they could go back and stop specific events from happening...the Tenno could go back and stop the Zariman Zero frome netering whatever.. they could stop the orokin from sending the units into TAU system or further more they could go back and exterminate the root of the Technocyte Virus...

Time travel is the most fun part of sci fi, who wouldn’t want to be their own grandfather, just ask Mitchell in Stargate how that worked out... 

[STCJ]

Well for anyone who has beena  comic book fan the idea of time travel and the multi verse are both pretty old tropes. And they still struggle with making both work. Lets look at the Arrowverse of the CW network as a good example.

They jump into it with both feet in The Flash in its first season with Reverse Flash being the big bad, who by time traveling actually creates Flash or at least our version of him as we soon learn in the later seasons there seems to be a chosen of the Speed Force in just about every timeline except apparently the one with supergirl as she never speaks of any speedster in her dimension.

But the real crux of it all is the Flash. He can literally run through time past or future, do so with almost pin point to the minute accuracy, and even seems to be able to use it to shift dimensions even though they always have that be him altering his own timeline even though with there being an established multiverse it stands to reason that other reality still exist and that he seems to just step into the shoes of that dimensions version of him when he does create the flashpoint paradox event.

We know we live in an infinite expanding universe. If we accept the idea of alternate timeline dimensions exist it stands to reason not unlike in an old episode of TNG every thing that can happen has happened. Thus we dont really alter anything we just are one of many possibilities.

Now we see in WFverse that the Tenno seem to be closer to becoming sentient energy, the ability to shift consciousness across who knows how vast a distance. The ability to manipulate energy and thus all that exist, The strange doppleganger that haunts us. It brings back a popular fan theory about Cable and Apocalypse in marvel that was widely debated before the origin for apocalypse mini series. The theory was that cable being the most powerful telepath to have ever been born and able to naturally contain all that power would eventually psychically merge with all his alternate time line selves, and that would become Apocalypse, who then would have to shift from Earth to Earth using the bodies of his temporeal dopplegangers to contain all that energy.

 

Now Im not saying all that is likely to happen in WF but when you factor in that Tenno are not really subject to the natural laws of our universe, it basically means all things are possible.

[-Krism-]

6 hours ago, Cubewano said:

source?

He talked more a bout it during a twitch stream some time ago, so I can't really find it

The only thing I could find was his very first tweet about the quest:

Spoiler

 

 

[zoffmode]

If it's time travel it better go back to Dark Sector time. Meet Hayden Tenno and fight his Excalibur with our Excalibur. 😎

[(XBOX)Hairy Mouse]

They kinda NEED time travel and paradoxes, though. A lot of the lore is from oldframe before it took a different direction and changed to operators and stuff. In order to explain some of the conflicting lore and be able to easily connect some ideas they need a way to interweave the things that no longer make sense canonically into the current day lore.

Also, if one can time travel anyone can? Nope not if DE says they can't. What if someone goes back and kills there mother? They won't, because that's not the way DE will implement the mechanics. So, no worries.

Edited November 20, 2019 by (XB1)Hairy Mouse

[(PSN)Kakurine2]

It seems to me its a alternate reality. Paralel to our own.  The what if the tenno didn't make it out of the void.

I am hoping it will completely overhaul the operater creator.  So we can have adult operaters if we please.  Or whatever age we want for that matter.

Give me proper sliders to shape and customize as i please.

Edited November 21, 2019 by (PS4)Kakurine2

[(PSN)DoctorWho_90250]

On 2019-11-19 at 10:04 AM, Vyra said:

Really, im a fan of science fiction except for that one part.. this is due to the logical flaws that come with it...

IF anyone could time travel, they could go back and stop specific events from happening...the Tenno could go back and stop the Zariman Zero frome netering whatever.. they could stop the orokin from sending the units into TAU system or further more they could go back and exterminate the root of the Technocyte Virus...

Further more, if we know how to time travel anyone could go back and do anything... this could just end the story and everything is in peace and nice... Game over?!

SO i really really hope the trailer turns out NOT implementing any kind of time traveling...

Except we have some entity who only allows one time travel to do specific things and then hinders us from doing so... like a God or Q from Startrek...

 

Yeah, I mean there was that character who died...wait, didn't die? There was just a flash when Ballas killed her?

Hmm....

[(XBOX)Demon Intellect]

On 2019-11-20 at 2:45 AM, Aldain said:

Ah right, I worded it backwards and didn't notice until now, I meant to say "Another word for female dog? Yes."

Yeah that works fine.

[-AiLuoLi-]

Please do time travel so that I can exchange my old tenno for younger ones.

[chaotea]

On 2019-11-19 at 6:04 PM, Vyra said:

IF anyone could time travel, they could go back and stop specific events from happening...

Except you cant change the past, if you go back in time that past becomes your present and the future becomes your past. As the past has already happened, you cant change it.

 

Still, it feels more likely the well see a timeskip. (Actually I wondered if the tenno are already old, but weve somehow been appearing as young as a side effect of loosing our past memories).

[Loza03]

55 minutes ago, chaotea said:

Still, it feels more likely the well see a timeskip. (Actually I wondered if the tenno are already old, but weve somehow been appearing as young as a side effect of loosing our past memories).

Considering the story up to now has been a coming-of-age story, what with the whole 'start as entirely reliant on a pair of adults, grow to being capable of standing on your own but unable to see the path forward and then forging your own way without any guidance'... I'd have to suspect it might be a Steven Universe 'physical maturity matches mental maturity' kind of situation.

[(PSN)Kakurine2]

8 hours ago, chaotea said:

Except you cant change the past, if you go back in time that past becomes your present and the future becomes your past. As the past has already happened, you cant change it.

 

Still, it feels more likely the well see a timeskip. (Actually I wondered if the tenno are already old, but weve somehow been appearing as young as a side effect of loosing our past memories).

The tenno are not normal they are physically warped by the void.  So they don't age like normal.

And they where in cryo sleep for centuries hidden on lua.  Mentally the tenno have been through enough that they are not kids.

Keep in mind our void powers break the laws of physics so long as we maintain control.

Think about what Transference is after the second dream.  We break down into raw energy and merge with our warframes to control them or in the case of umbra help balance his tormented mind.

When we transfer out and fight in operater mode or should our warframe die.  We instantly reform a new body to fight with.

Our minds are infinite and part of the void. With control we should be able to form whatever body we want and transfer any distance.

Of course look at rell.  His body died but his mind held back the man in the wall for centuries.  Until eventually rell was consumed by the void.

Also consider void corrupted vor. We kill him over and over but his mind reminds part of the void and returns.

The void is a double edged sword.

Edited November 21, 2019 by (PS4)Kakurine2

[chaotea]

17 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Considering the story up to now has been a coming-of-age story, what with the whole 'start as entirely reliant on a pair of adults, grow to being capable of standing on your own but unable to see the path forward and then forging your own way without any guidance'... I'd have to suspect it might be a Steven Universe 'physical maturity matches mental maturity' kind of situation.

Yea, thats what im thinking. The oporator might be like the gems, a physical construct of the tennos minds.

TBH, it could go either way. Im strapped in for something typically DE crazy though.

[(PSN)ukuolio]

Void travel kind of is time traveling already and it's also traveling between different realitys. And then we have Limbo who pretty much makes his own reality. I have a feeling that Duviri will be very much be like Lua's spy mission alltogether. It's also possible that this could be precentation about how time works in different places and dimensions.

All in all, more lore quests and scenearios in the game would really be huge plus. ^^

[TheSixteenth]

Well, it doesn't have to be free time travel.

It can be tied to fixed events that once "relived" doesn't change the present.

Or two connecting timeline, like in Lua, past affect future, but the past is running at a concurrent pace with present, so you can't really choose when to go, it's always x years from now.

Or it's a time pocket, we don't go to the past, it's the past that got frozen in a pocket and we just open it up.

Many other ways to do that...

[tzadquiel]

this time travel paradox is easily ommited due to string theory and the way realities and dimensions work. 
everytime someone goes back and changes something, ripple effect splits this universum from itself, creating one realm when change occured, and one, where it didnt. if this is lore breaking to you, OP, just assume you have ended up in the timeline with no change occuring. simples.