Well this is horrible...

[(XBOX)Huggs93]

Please tell me im not the only one that hates the new controls on console like ive gone through controller changes before but none have been this jarring and clunky. I'm literally trying to remember every single game ive played with a controller layout change and literally nothing seems this bad. the combos are a mess, the animations are wack/unfamiliar, blocking still doesnt f-ing work so i cant melee aim glide even though we can somehow block as ive been told by presumably pc players and for the love of almighty god would you make actual mapable controlls a f-ing thing instead of packaging them together? first thing i did was to see if i could map heavy melee to holding B again and nope if i do that i dont get my secondary fire options. so theyve nerfed melee into the ground which means every sentinel of mine now has primed ammo converstion... great...

and before anyone says anything sure you may have "control between the animations due to which combinations of button combos you put down. nothing is familiar and now im trying to figure out all my favorite stances but im to the point of just F it because whats the point if the animations broke all my builds? im not going to reforma all of that so i cant do crazy fast S#&$ again. if i used a sword i used the stance i loved which was vengful revenant. if it was a heavy blade go fast and knock them all around with temp royal. someone anyone please tell me im not the only one that thinks this because this is just down right bad at best and clunky at worst. its like when batman was ported to pc and nothing worked except it went from pc to xbox this time. how i wish i worked there just to play the console version.

[Xaero]

6 minutes ago, (XB1)Huggs93 said:

blocking still doesnt f-ing work so i cant melee aim glide

Have you tried holding weapon swap button?

[(XBOX)Huggs93]

10 hours ago, Xaero said:

Have you tried holding weapon swap button?

No since I was told that was not a thing anymore. How bad have they bastardized the controls? Hell even Minecraft and games allow you to map either a press or a hold button but my god this is just bad. I’m literally thinking I’ll just unequip melees since the animations are different and clunky since a lot of that is how I built everything. Almost wish there was a way to play legacy Warframe. The only good thing that has come from this is the team said they were willing to reverse everything if it came out super bad. And that can’t come soon enough

[5H4DE]

34 minutes ago, (XB1)Huggs93 said:

No since I was told that was not a thing anymore. How bad have they bastardized the controls? Hell even Minecraft and games allow you to map either a press or a hold button but my god this is just bad. I’m literally thinking I’ll just unequip melees since the animations are different and clunky since a lot of that is how I built everything. Almost wish there was a way to play legacy Warframe. The only good thing that has come from this is the team said they were willing to reverse everything if it came out super bad. And that can’t come soon enough

It won't get reversed as those of us who actually played with the system more than a day found that it is way better than previously. Please come back after actually playing it instead of complaining about the obvious(it's different from before).

I do agree that we need to have full control over button mapping tho.

[Nichivo]

4 hours ago, TheRealShade said:

It won't get reversed as those of us who actually played with the system more than a day found that it is way better than previously. Please come back after actually playing it instead of complaining about the obvious(it's different from before).

I do agree that we need to have full control over button mapping tho.

In what world exactly is a system where you swap to secondary, then equip your scanner, scan a plant, and put away your scanner, only to magically be holding your primary again, not a clunky mess, and actually better?

In what world is having to first pull out melee, then use change weapon(with a hold) to enter melee only, not a clunky mess?

No really! In what Fantasy world do I need to reside, to not have a redundant heavy attack option, one of which can't be disabled, that will spend combo counter by mistake on faster melee?  

Put it down, and back away from the bar, you're cut off. 

 

Edited November 21, 2019 by Nichivo

[(XBOX)Huggs93]

3 hours ago, Nichivo said:

In what world exactly is a system where you swap to secondary, then equip your scanner, scan a plant, and put away your scanner, only to magically be holding your primary again, not a clunky mess, and actually better?

In what world is having to first pull out melee, then use change weapon(with a hold) to enter melee only, not a clunky mess?

No really! In what Fantasy world do I need to reside, to not have a redundant heavy attack option, one of which can't be disabled, that will spend combo counter by mistake on faster melee?  

Put it down, and back away from the bar, you're cut off. 

 

Thank you for agreeing!

[(PSN)Midcall]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb Nichivo:

n what world exactly is a system where you swap to secondary, then equip your scanner, scan a plant, and put away your scanner, only to magically be holding your primary again, not a clunky mess, and actually better?

Im so glad they fixed it. I farmed daily 28000 rep for simaris every day in around 10-15 minutes in a high level cuva mission. it was just a big mess having primary again equipped

[Nichivo]

19 minutes ago, (PS4)Midcall said:

Im so glad they fixed it. I farmed daily 28000 rep for simaris every day in around 10-15 minutes in a high level cuva mission. it was just a big mess having primary again equipped

It's not fixed! The scanner is sticky now, but the above is an example of how equipping, and un-equipping the scanner, will move you from secondary equipped, to primary equipped.

[Steel_Rook]

19 hours ago, Nichivo said:

In what world exactly is a system where you swap to secondary, then equip your scanner, scan a plant, and put away your scanner, only to magically be holding your primary again, not a clunky mess, and actually better?

In what world is having to first pull out melee, then use change weapon(with a hold) to enter melee only, not a clunky mess?

Neither of those is true. Unequipping your Scanner via retriggering the Scanner gear item will always equip your primary weapon, yes. Unequipping your scanner by hitting your weapon swap key will always equip your secondary. No, there's no way to re-equip "whatever you had before," but you do get a choice.

Secondly, you don't have to "pull out your melee" before "changing weapon." Holding the Swap Weapon key will lock you into your melee weapon regardless of context, and holding that again will re-equip your weapons - I believe your primary.

[Nichivo]

1 hour ago, Steel_Rook said:

Neither of those is true. Unequipping your Scanner via retriggering the Scanner gear item will always equip your primary weapon, yes.

That is a straight contradiction, as it's exactly what I just stated, claiming it isn't true, then repeating the exact same thing. Amazing!  

The rest of what you say just proves how clunky the system has become. 

ps. If you had not noticed due to the animations, it's actually a split second faster to get into melee only, if you hit e before the hold of swap weapon. Because you aren't stuck with the draw and lockin animations. Either way you do it it's still clunky though.

Edited November 22, 2019 by Nichivo

[(XBOX)Huggs93]

38 minutes ago, Nichivo said:

That is a straight contradiction, as it's exactly what I just stated, claiming it isn't true, then repeating the exact same thing. Amazing!  

The rest of what you say just proves how clunky the system has become. 

agreed if they would allow full custom controls like being able to custom program like selecting press OR hold to do "X" then so much would be better hell its one of the reasons i got a pro controller for xbox if i want button to be "Y" then so be it warframe needs this custimization. the melees are still no doubt far from perfect weapn swapping with scanners as youve said feels off. my main gripe is the controls and how because of the controls we cant do things we are familiar with like block combos and that sort of thing. to me having the complicated combo system was better but if they are going to stick with this they have to make it smoother MUCH SMOOTHER

[Nichivo]

1 minute ago, (XB1)Huggs93 said:

agreed if they would allow full custom controls like being able to custom program like selecting press OR hold to do "X" then so much would be better hell its one of the reasons i got a pro controller for xbox if i want button to be "Y" then so be it warframe needs this custimization. the melees are still no doubt far from perfect weapn swapping with scanners as youve said feels off. my main gripe is the controls and how because of the controls we cant do things we are familiar with like block combos and that sort of thing. to me having the complicated combo system was better but if they are going to stick with this they have to make it smoother MUCH SMOOTHER

I preferred the old system as well. I'm still not sure why anyone would hold weapon swap to enter melee only. Seriously I mention the least clunky way to do it above, since hitting e allows you to strike an enemy while switching into melee only, holding to go straight to melee only locks you in an animation, and makes you wait to hit e and attack. 

[Steel_Rook]

4 hours ago, Nichivo said:

The rest of what you say just proves how clunky the system has become. 

I'd argue the system is only clunky because people refused to let go of how it used to work and kept pushing for melee mechanics which required it. The only reason DE went back on their melee 2.9 weapon swap changes was because people kept clinging onto manual blocking and there's no good way to do that without introducing a bunch more buttons. If only they'd fixed autoblock, I'm convinced people could have gotten used to it. What we ended up in Melee 3.0 instead is the bastard version of two different systems with the drawbacks of both and fairly few of the benefits of either. I thought the whole point of Melee 2.9 was to recognise that Warframe's melee system was massively more complex than what the game actually called for, but instead melee was made more complex still.

Make no mistake, I'm not defending the current implementation. Unlike seemingly most people, however, I felt Melee 2.9 had it mostly right with the exception of implementation bugs that DE continue to refuse to fix, such as weapon swaps sometimes removing your weapon entirely and block being physically linked to aim and triggering a glide when auto-block fires in the air. Fix those and Melee 2.9's system would have worked just fine with Melee 3.0's combos and heavy attack approach. But nope! We went back to a manual melee equipping mechanic on top of not fixing the old bugs.

[Nichivo]

6 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

I'd argue the system is only clunky because people refused to let go of how it used to work and kept pushing for melee mechanics which required it. The only reason DE went back on their melee 2.9 weapon swap changes was because people kept clinging onto manual blocking and there's no good way to do that without introducing a bunch more buttons. If only they'd fixed autoblock, I'm convinced people could have gotten used to it. What we ended up in Melee 3.0 instead is the bastard version of two different systems with the drawbacks of both and fairly few of the benefits of either. I thought the whole point of Melee 2.9 was to recognise that Warframe's melee system was massively more complex than what the game actually called for, but instead melee was made more complex still.

Make no mistake, I'm not defending the current implementation. Unlike seemingly most people, however, I felt Melee 2.9 had it mostly right with the exception of implementation bugs that DE continue to refuse to fix, such as weapon swaps sometimes removing your weapon entirely and block being physically linked to aim and triggering a glide when auto-block fires in the air. Fix those and Melee 2.9's system would have worked just fine with Melee 3.0's combos and heavy attack approach. But nope! We went back to a manual melee equipping mechanic on top of not fixing the old bugs.

Na! I can't make excuses for it being clunky. Think about it for a minute. You actually recommended I use an even more clunky way of entering melee only, then the one I listed above. You can doing it the way I mentioned, and at least attack while entering melee only during the attack, as opposed to standing around waiting on an animation lock the way you recommended. The entire system screams clunky.

There were a couple different ways they could have handled the changes, that would have allowed for the best of all worlds and fixed the issues you mention as well.

[(XBOX)Huggs93]

On 2019-11-22 at 11:16 AM, Nichivo said:

I preferred the old system as well. I'm still not sure why anyone would hold weapon swap to enter melee only. Seriously I mention the least clunky way to do it above, since hitting e allows you to strike an enemy while switching into melee only, holding to go straight to melee only locks you in an animation, and makes you wait to hit e and attack. 

It was part of the old system but for real it definitely needs polishing a lot

[Nichivo]

50 minutes ago, (XB1)Huggs93 said:

It was part of the old system but for real it definitely needs polishing a lot

You can say that again. I would give anything to at least be able to turn off hold E for Heavy Attack, and get rid of the silly Titania floating off into the wild blue yonder lift mechanic. If it had been more like rhino stomp I could maybe overlook how silly and anti enjoyable it feels and looks.