Kuva lich system improvement suggestions (no gripes)

[Graavarg]

Tried to find a thread mostly consisting of suggested improvements (and little or no gripe), but while there are a lot of good suggestions the "griping about lichs"-part is overwhelming. However, I think there is quite a huge potential in this new nemesis-system, and much be realized with only small changes and additions.

Currently there is a somewhat clear split between a more min-max approach and brute farming. The "min-maxers" like to utilize the new system for maximized effectiveness, which boils down a combination of selecting the best missions for the different phases and choosing to stab the lich in different ways and at different times depending on mathematical probabilities, but they do not necessarily approach the lich system only from a "maximum return over time"-perspective. The "dedicated farmers", on the other hand, do explicitly, really try to maximize "return over time".

Both groups currently manage to irritate each other, and are further irritated by the lack of control and involvement concerning both mission content, mission selection and, maybe most of all, the rewards. The new kuva weapons are a nice addition, they really are a bit better than their counterparts (depending on preference and playstyle), they have "more" than just buffed stats and they add a nice chunk of MR standing to be unlocked. The trading part is done fairly well, since the possibility of prices skyrocketing is fairly non-existent and trading is mostly a way to getting the missing weapons for MR purposes or weapon build testing.

Some suggestions to improve the system overall:

• The "personal nemesis"-connection is now quite vague, this could easily be strengthened by having a few separate mechanics for solo vs squad play, after all an encounter between the (solo) player and the lich really is both more personal and potentially more "nemesis". A good way of doing this would be keeping the current aggro system for squads (where the lich jumps in because it is pissed at you, but it is the lich's "decision") but allowing players to influence lich spawning in solo missions by "challenging" it (calling it out to fight). In order to avoid creating this into "just another farming solution", the "challenge" part could simply be having to continuously kill the thralls sent by the lich over a period of time, making it less effective for "return over time" but instead guaranteeing the lich joining the fray (as long as certain conditions are met, including overall rage level).
• The "personal nemesis"-theme could also be improved by adding a third option when it is subdued, at the same time increasing the reward and adding more endgame challenge. This would be the option of kicking the lich free again, with 5 levels added (up to a new max level of 10) and allowing the lich to "re-equip" gear, abilities and immunities. This re-equipping would include a random but guaranteed increase of the weapon status (improving one of the main rewards) and adapting to the players preferred playstyle and equipment (used when fighting the lich). The new lich would also be permanently enraged, pre-dominantly attack the player in solo missions ("personal nemesis") but occasionally (a couple of times per day?) issue a personal challenge to the player that would allow for a team helping out ("I await you at Adaro for the next hour, you little Tenno-twerp!").
• As many have pointed out, the current reward system has three archs (getting the MR standing, maximising the kuva weapons and getting the ephemeras), two of which are increasingly  bending (together) towards diminishing returns as you progress (the chance of getting an even better weapon status and the chance of getting a missing weapon). The missing weapon part can be handled by trade, but buying better statuses for your weapons with plat does not make getting more and more non-usable weapons (with lower status) any more interesting. The current valence system of exchanging you lower status-% for a higher works fine, but the addition of a possibility to also "valence" a lower status weapon into your current and get a small improvement would make the system (much) more meaningful.
• If the lich could grab a few more nodes once a day (every time the Warframe clock resets at GMT 00:00), it would really help low-level players wanting to tackle a lich. They could continue gathering thralls without the "no more nodes"-based need to level the lich up, and could eventually subdue their "still at level 1"-lich. Such a system would have no real drawbacks (as it would not influence more effective lich hunters in any practical way), and would have the added benefit of keeping the lich "alive and active" (leave it for a week and you might have lost a large part of the planet to it).

Some suggestions to improve the system for min-maxers:

• Give players more interaction with the lich and more control over lich arch progression. Min-maxers like to calculate and plan things, they can handle randomness, but randomness impacting "the most efficient way" of doing something is a continuous thorn in the side (and in the mind). To engage min-maxers the progression of beating the lich should include the possibility of counteracting randomness by applying logic and solutions. The most important mechanisms in the lich arch (currently at least) is the number of mission-based thralls, the chance of spawning the lich, the number of enemies turned into thralls by the lich and the statistical chances connected to the revealing of requiems. Making the number and "rhytm" of mission-based thralls more connected to and dependent on mission type would allow min-maxers to include the mission type in their planning (while the lich-infested nodes would still be random). A simple in-mission lich clock/rage-o-meter in solo missions would go a long way, as you would know that continuing killing and/or simply staying alive would make the lich show up eventually, and even give you some rudimentary control on how to make it happen.
• A new player-lich interaction that would allow a player to actually place a revealed requiem in the right spot. This could be something so simple as an option to (while still in-mission) "re-start" the solo mission during which a requiem was revealed, with higher level enemies and new thralls and a new in-mission once-only goal/possibility of also revealing the spot (for the newly revealed requiem). The mission type/objectives could change, and a mission time-gate should be included to stop this being used as a farming solution

Some suggestion to improve the system for farmers:

• farmers wants a chance at better "return over time", one simple way to allow for this would be to include the option of continuing wave-based missions with more thralls joining in, but raising the overall difficulty level by a fairly huge amount (100?, "doubling") and halving the amount of lives per player. And risking the loss of all murmurs gathered in mission. The option to continue could be capped at two (the original mission + two more), which would mean enjoying level 250-350 enemies in the last round with only one or two lives per player. If a player doesn't have enough lives left to join he/she would be auto-kicked. With an increase of, say, 50% more thralls per round, this would allow high-level squads (dedicated or random) to increase the amount of murmurs by 50% over a three-mission set (100% + 150% + 200%), while adding more (voluntary) challenge. It would also promote real team play, linking murmur progress (through the brute-force approach) with more dedicated and well-designed teams.
• A common suggested solution to the "not stabbing the lich"-problem is that it should be made easier to "disappear" the lich (without leveling the lich up). However, while this probably would function quite well it sort of goes against the grain of the "personal nemesis"-theme. My suggestion would be to instead give every lich in squad-mission Ash-like powers to teleport and insta-kill the owning player if the player does not try to stab it within a certain time. This player kill would not level up the lich, would make more it more sensible for the other squad members to not keep the lich continually downed (if the owning player doesn't show up to kill it), and maybe give them a little bit of satisfaction when it goes "ha, ha, die you fool!" and teleports and kills the not-stabbing player.

Edited November 21, 2019 by Graavarg

[(XBOX)Demon Intellect]

Few easy ones.

Let the larva hold the weapon the lich will spawn with, so if it's a dupe or a weapon you dont want do mercy it.

After a Lich takes a knee 3 times without being stabbed it disappears.

Make it so that stabbing lich gives murmur progress to the squad again, but with 10× to the lich owner (how it is now) and 5× to everyone in the squad.

Edited November 21, 2019 by (XB1)Demon Intellect

[Toran]

The Kuva Lich system needs to see radical changes or it will stop dead in its tracks soon. Mad vets like me are done with collecting the (mostly mediocre) weapons. Chances to get the few interesting weapons with an acceptable bonus are that slim that it's less frustrating to ignore the whole affair and try to get a Lich with a good roll from the market.

Once Lich-shredders like myself and others are widely out of the picture, Level 5 Lichs can become a serious problem to some Tenno.

Considering the lousy rewards, the effort has to drop radically to keep up the interest in Kuva Lich:

• Allow to chose not only the damage but the weapon too in some form
• Remove Lich aggression loss completely 
• Allow multiple Lichs to spawn
• Further reduce needed thrall count

Currently, the Index still is the only thing that comes closest to something like endgame. The Liches however are like their names but random jokes. The only fear they instill in the seasoned Tenno is the fear of fruitless and boring grind.

I'm back to daily sorties mostly, playing RDR2 (between crashes), Fallen Order or Destiny 2 in the meantime.

Edited November 21, 2019 by Toran

[(PSN)FrancisChrisWong]

Here is my suggested improvements:

1. When player executed mercy finisher to incapacitated Kuva Lichs, it will consume 1 related requiem mod charges and successfully performed mercy finisher if you equipped the matched requiem mods, no matter the arrangement order of requiem mods in Parazon. It means DE should remove "arrangement order of requiem mods" settings, enable any player kills Kuva Lichs easily. It is the most important step because many player equipped their Parazon with the matched requiem mods but failed to perform mercy finisher to incapacitated Kuva Lichs due to wrongful arrangement order of requiem mods in Parazon. It is outrageous and horrendous setting that should not be exist.

2. Reduce the number of killed enemies to unlock requiem murmur by half.

3. Slightly reduce the difficulty of Kuva Lich missions levels.

Edited December 25, 2019 by (PS4)FrancisChrisWong