Dojo building is irredeemable garbage

[Kefirno]

Was it really that hard to make everything fit into a nice grid? Big room, half big room etc.

And if it is such an impossible task, was it really necessary to lock everything, including rooms destruction, behind a multiple hours time gates?

It can take multiple days to find out via trial and error that there's 2mm overlap that forces you to waste a few more days wreck and rebuild multiple rooms.

And what's with that idiotic hierarchy of halls and one hall of each type limit that makes it impossible to adjust rooms without rebuilding THE ENTIRE DOJO from scratch?

[MollAgdeduba]

I suggest to sarch for "dojo builder" on cephalon google; is not perfect but can help avoid this type of problem.

About the "Idiot Hall Hyerarchy" i totally agree... it could also be interesting could build more than one of minor hall.

 

[(PSN)KubrowduLotus]

😉 Architect

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

I so wish they started all players with a double decker grand hall with multiple doors....

[Steel_Rook]

Most of the rooms actually ARE on something of a grid. And then for some reason, some of them just aren't, or at least not visually. You know what might help? An in-game Dojo Designer, one with the grid actually drawn on-screen and with room footprints displayed as you're placing them, one which allows players to plan out an entire layout without having to build/scrap/rebuild/try again. And I've looked for Dojo planners online. I found not a single one where rooms snap on a grid or highlight collision.

Basically, it feels like DE just dropped a feature-stripped version of their procedural map generator into the Dojo and called it a day. Here's a fun game you can play. That's what causes the weird room dependency, as well. Note that actual instanced maps are shaped like tree graphs. Paths always split, but never converge. Every room is "attached" to a single previous room, and all of them are recursively attached to the starting room. Dojos allow us to build looping structure of hallways and rooms, but the underlying mechanic is still a tree graph. Hallways are always attached to each other in the order the rooms were created. If you want to delete them, you have to go in reverse order for no real practical reason.

Yet another system slapped together on a tight deadline and then never revisited, expanded or improved.

[Kefirno]

36 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

Dojos allow us to build looping structure of hallways and rooms, but the underlying mechanic is still a tree graph.

This explains why I sometimes have to destroy Room A before destroying Room B in a layout like this where each room is connected to two adjacent ones:

A B
C D

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

I am still waiting, hoping, for a full Dojo/Clan/Alliance rework... It's still one of the things I want the most on the game... Sadly there's no pressure on DE to do it anytime soon. 😞

[Steel_Rook]

5 hours ago, Kefirno said:

This explains why I sometimes have to destroy Room A before destroying Room B in a layout like this where each room is connected to two adjacent ones:

A B
C D

Precisely. I assume the rooms in your example are a circular set of hallway pieces. Let's say you built them in the order of CDBA. Despite A connecting to C, it's "attached" to be due to the tree graph structure, so you have to destroy A before you can destroy B. That's a purely technical issue that DE should have fixed by now. As far as I'm aware, the Dojos we have now are actually a major redesign of a previous, more Orokin-themed system. This fix should have been in THAT redesign.

[Cyaminthe]

On 2019-11-22 at 6:16 PM, Steel_Rook said:

Most of the rooms actually ARE on something of a grid. And then for some reason, some of them just aren't, or at least not visually.

And then some of them seem to be, but actually aren't. For example, the physical conflict width of basic and great halls exceeds one grid cell despite the map making it look okay at a glance.

Spoiler

 

[Steel_Rook]

4 hours ago, ToaMimrik said:

And then some of them seem to be, but actually aren't. For example, the physical conflict width of basic and great halls exceeds one grid cell despite the map making it look okay at a glance.

Of course 🙂 As with anything in Warframe, there are always dumb exceptions which make no sense, but probably have an explanation rooted in some kind of old decision nobody remembers. All of the Halls seem to have "collision boxes" substantially larger than the rooms themselves. Because the game never shows us a collision box for a room we're placing and only shows the actual room footprint, we can only guess by eye. And even then, the Dojo builder only shows us a small snapshot in that teeny-tiny little minimap port. Have you tried building a hangar yet? Because the hangar is many times larger than that port, making it impossible to tell which direction it's actually orientated. For reference, it spawns pointing "left" of where you placed it, rotating it once causes it to point right, rotating it twice causes it to point away from the door you're building it at, and rotating it four times loops over to start. I had place and remove my hangar no fewer than four times before I got the right orientation because the preview tells me nothing.

Long story short, we need a Dojo Builder UI, we need a dojo room structure which doesn't follow the procedural instance tree graph room dependency design and we need the ability to move entire rooms with their associated decorations to a new viable place. Bonus points if we can place rooms "anywhere" even without a direct link to them. Teleporters exist for a reason.