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New Archwing flight system


Back4Blood
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My personal opinion is that it was a good idea to bring fast flight just by pressing SHIFT and get / loose altitude by pressing SPACE / CTRL, BUT what I don't like about it is that instant stop in movement. I do think that slowly loosing speed was way more awesome and more realistic (as it was before the update) than this instant 60-0 in 0.1 seconds.

What do you guys think about it?

Edited by Back4Blood
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The previous momentum system was COMPLETELY broken, to the point where this:

2 minutes ago, Back4Blood said:

was way more awesome and more realistic

is just flagrantly false

You would take a while to come to a stop, sure, but you could turn on a dime. If you were to Archwing-sprint, then let go, then aim down sights, you would instantly redirect all your momentum in whatever direction you were aiming. This made doing strafing runs against the ground a MASSIVE pain in the codpiece and borderline impossible to do anything in archwing without getting shot down by those THIRICE-CURSED EMP ROCKETS

However, it was almost impossible to actually stop moving on command. If you were to press the "fly backwards" button, on NOW momentum is working like real life, NOW you take four business days to come to stop in midair

I am so glad that they changed it to the current version

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Sure the previous behavior was more realistic, but it was also terrible for precision maneuvering. One of the reasons Itzal was used besides Blink was being able to stop on a dime with its Penumbra ability. 

If I want to take some accurate shots on some Grineer below me in the Plains, being forced to wait while I slowly coast to a stop feels horrible.

 

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I'm not going to talk about combat in open-world air. It was never the highlight for Archwings for me.

As somewhat of an Archwing enthusiast since it's initial release, I've always liked the freedom of combat in space. When the Experimental Flight model was implemented, it was great because it got rid of the up and down directions which means chasing targets was smooth regardless of your orientation. If you had a target behind you, you could either turn around sideways or flip vertically, making it really smooth to move from target to target. Perhaps it's experience with flight combat games and space sims but it wasn't anything special to adjust to and it resulted in this semi-arcadey 3rd person space combat game mode where there's just enough drift to feel like you're in space but reactive enough to not play like you're a ship with controlled thruster ports.

The new controls effectively reverts a lot of these back to its original and possibly worse, and it's mostly quite bad for space. No longer are you able to move from one target to the other smoothly vertically, you're forced to turn horizontally if the next target is just slightly underneath your crosshair if you're already facing the bottom. This also affects general movement as you trying to vertically circle an obstacle means doing a 90 degree turn down, a 180 degree turn horizontally, and then back to center as opposed to a single smooth 180 vertical. Movement feels and looks completely awkward as there is completely no drift in space, allowing you to make extremely sharp 180 turns after going full speed. Archwing has effectively lost all cinematic value and feels like it's been overly simplified to a 3D shump. Even a lot of the nice animations got removed or simplified that you're really only in 2 major animation states.

Summary of it all,

Pros

  • Response speed changes are nice for moving fast through very tight spaces
  • The whole sprint/afterburner button combinations are nicely simplified

Cons

  • No more fancy animations, rolls, spins and quick turn.
  • Vertical locking at the bottom means the game often times require you to turn a full 180 horizontally.
  • Response speed changes were way too much and completely killed the feeling of moving in space.

Overall, the gameplay just feels a little hollow with how little of a skill curve there is and it has completely lost all of its cinematic value. It feels like they're trying to shoehorn Skywing as the regular Archwing gameplay, which really hurts actual Archwing because it completely destroys the combat in space.

To sort of highlight the differences in the skill curve and what you can do with the game, just compare the two videos.

Spoiler

 

 

Edited by RX-3DR
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I'm going to throw my 2¢ in:

  • I really like the responsiveness and better feeling of speed(was it actually sped up?).
  • I don't like the lack of momentum.  It was previously too high, but now it feels like I'm skating around without any connection to the world around me.
    This is something that has been avoided until now.
  • I would really like to be able to bind the Blink to a separate control instead of having it perma-bound to double tapping sprint. 
    It honestly works more than ever like bullet jumping, so maybe bind it to pressing CTRL+Space like that action is?
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9 minutes ago, notNSANE said:

currently it's almost impossible to control the Archwing with a Steam Controller since pressing down Afterburners forward due to the automatic "sprint" on outer ring. Probably no one tested it on the team. 

Afterburner needs to be disabled if you hold down on the left analog stick.

Someone knows where to give this feedback properly?

We are looking into controller issues, but we won't have a fix until Monday. Can you rebind for the weekend? Sorry for the inconvenience. 

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Eh. My big issue with Archwing is the animations and how flight feels in general. It still feels mostly the same. They need to improve the animations and the flight system overall so that it feels like you're flying, particularly when turning left or right, or flying up or down. Everything about archwing feels like you're just sliding around instead of flying. Like, it feels like you're a point that's moving in cardinal directions instead of a body being propelled forward. This is basic stuff. If you're moving forward, and you turn, you're going to turn on a curve. You're not going to turn in place. And yet that's exactly what Archwing is right now. That's why it feels so off.

Edited by A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n
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I only agree as far as instantly snapping to a stop feels extremely jarring. We should at least take a brief moment to stop or start, that's just how physics works. Even if it's only a couple metres from afterburner top speed.

Of course, the original momentum was extremely over-the-top, but I'm not asking for that back, just enough to not resemble Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing.

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While I love the fact that I no longer feel like a greased whale on a giant ice rink, we went from one end of the spectrum to the other.
Coming to a complete halt, talking full speed to zero, is incredibly clunky. It feels like my warframe and AW have absolutely no weight at all.
It is superb for local movement where you want to be more precise, but coming to a sudden standstill after speeding across the map with my afterburner does not feel natural at all.

I already miss being able to do loops, rolls and spins over Orb Vallis and the plains. I am not a fan of being vertically locked.
I love being able to strafe left and right now, but on the flip side, it feels very limiting. Having more freedom to roll and do loops felt a lot more gracious and was one of the things I genuinely enjoyed about archwing. Now it just feels... basic. Again, perfect for local movement while hovering, but limiting while flying.
Same goes for being locked to an 180 degree vertical arch in the direction you are facing. If a target happens to be above/below and behind, you are forced to turn on two axis, one-eighty horizontally using the mouse to look at it, instead of more naturally following it by turning yourself on your head.
Best way I can describe this is... moving around in noclip. It feels like Garrysmod noclip.

All in all, this archwing update feels like a slightly forward sidestep.

If they want to keep this iteration, I would say
make the AW feel like it has some weight to it by having it slow down to a halt (like a few meters, not kilometers like before) instead of crashing into an invisible wall after using the speed boost
bring back free movement with rolling and looping (with a slight increase to rolling speed) instead of leaving us vertically locked (maybe instead of using the space bar to gain altitude when flying forwards or backwards, it can be repurposed to disabling vertical if held pressed while moving forward/backwards and reactivating the lock when let go, or the other way around, enabling strafing while pressed in tandem with W/S)
- or maybe I am overthinking and we should just get the option to switch between the two flight modes, old and new (granted with a fix to the gliding issue of the old one)

Edited by PsiKO911
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9 hours ago, RX-3DR said:

it was great because it got rid of the up and down directions which means chasing targets was smooth regardless of your orientation.

This is pretty big and speaks to me. I don't think I'll ever get used to either sitting still or full throttle forward with no in between.

However other people would rather have it dumbed down to running really fast in the air as a glorified taxi 😢 .

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Space magic. Technology is so advanced who cares about what's realistic. Warframes also don't care about g-forces making a puree of their insides so it's all good. 

It felt weird to me to me today... but also better. Personally I can't say if I like it or hate it until spending a bit more time getting used to new system.

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11 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

However, it was almost impossible to actually stop moving on command. If you were to press the "fly backwards" button, on NOW momentum is working like real life, NOW you take four business days to come to stop in midair

It's worth noting that while boosting in the old model, W and S acted like a throttle in Skywing. If you held S before you got to where you wanted to be, you could bring your speed right down and the momentum would be a lot more manageable.

Cumbersome, I know, but it was there.

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7 hours ago, zoffmode said:

Space magic. Technology is so advanced who cares about what's realistic. Warframes also don't care about g-forces making a puree of their insides so it's all good. 

It felt weird to me to me today... but also better. Personally I can't say if I like it or hate it until spending a bit more time getting used to new system.

I mean, your Warframe will take a moment to come to a halt from a sprint, so the precedent is there.

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2 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

I mean, your Warframe will take a moment to come to a halt from a sprint, so the precedent is there.

That's cause it's actual sprinting so regular physics still apply. Archwing can just have fancy flight system that doesn't care about inertia.

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12 minutes ago, zoffmode said:

That's cause it's actual sprinting so regular physics still apply. Archwing can just have fancy flight system that doesn't care about inertia.

Warframes aren't human so they're not really bound to the same physical standards as humans though.

Either way, personally, I couldn't really care less about the realism. You could always do a 180 turn on a dime in space instantly so that was always out the window. It's just that the feeling of the current movement system doesn't feel like you're being propelled by a force but it feels like someone is clicking on a mouse to dragging you across the screen on the axes. The feeling of movement is just really lacking.

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18 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

I am so glad that they changed it to the current version

While the new blinking needs some tweaking (kinda sucks for users of the combined sprint/roll key) this is the best iteration they've done so far. I can actually control the damn thing now.

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19 hours ago, Back4Blood said:

. I do think that slowly loosing speed was way more awesome and more realistic (as it was before the update) than this instant 60-0 in 0.1 seconds.

This is what everyone wanted to be removed and what made archwing so bad in the 1st place. It's good that the inertia has been removed and we can stop precisely where we want instead of gliding.

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