Blink nerf and railjack archwing gameplay.

[Numerikuu]

I see what you did there 😉

[SordidDreams]

29 minutes ago, 8faiNt said:

what is the plan here de? are you trying to accomplish so players cant do 6x3 anymore?

Yes. Arcanes are getting too cheap, they need to nerf their farming speed to raise prices and drive plat sales.

^{/s but only a little}

Edited November 22, 2019 by SordidDreams

[8faiNt]

8 minutes ago, Chappie1975 said:

Considering how few people do 6x3...optimizing the game for a a fraction of a fraction of a percent it quite foolish.  Get over yourself.

wow thats a very strong point. I mean yeah. who even plays 6x3 just cuck them and call it a day because they are not the majority. I really liked your way of thinking.

though I dont think you understand one thing this wont just affect 6x3, 6x3 and 5x3 is the most affected because they dont get the right to do any mistakes to start with.

It will affect every run regardless of the number. People will make mistakes and they will need an extra minute one way or other and once their eidolon goes to the lake for despawning you know where you lost your time regardless you play 3x3 or 6x3

Edited November 22, 2019 by 8faiNt

[Chappie]

1 minute ago, 8faiNt said:

wow thats a very strong point. I mean yeah. who even plays 6x3 just cuck them and call it a day because they are not the majority. I really liked your way of thinking.

They aren't even a minority...they are just loud and vocal and pound the ground when "life isn't fair"....Like Children.   Everyone now gets blink....meh.  What ever. 

[Oreades]

Honestly it isn't a "bad" ability for an Archwing just for the love of god not the heccin Itzal...... 

[Wolfdoggie]

They didn't want us to cheese space battles by Hyper Driving Itzel through enemy ships to destroy them.

[Skaleek]

1 minute ago, Oreades said:

Honestly it isn't a "bad" ability for an Archwing just for the love of god not the heccin Itzal...... 

I mean DE has the usage stats of valkyr's ripline. They knew what they were doing when they did it. It's changes like this that make it feel like DE is kinda "out of touch". How about giving itzal a countermeasure since it's 1 was its old countermeasure? How about literally anything else. Shoot a kubrow that splats against a window would've been more appealing.

[Nukke]

I feel like Rebecca is the only one in DE to realize what players actually want and what is good for the game. Way back with Oberon's first passive she pointed out the obvious flaw and now again she was very verbal about the issue in hand. And there have been many cases in between. The developers don't seem very aware of the actual gameplay outside their small inside playtests.

[Oreades]

1 minute ago, Skaleek said:

I mean DE has the usage stats of valkyr's ripline. They knew what they were doing when they did it. It's changes like this that make it feel like DE is kinda "out of touch". How about giving itzal a countermeasure since it's 1 was its old countermeasure? How about literally anything else. Shoot a kubrow that splats against a window would've been more appealing.

Right up until you find out DE coded it to actually consume a Kubrow and thus the player needs to grind kubrow Eggs, sit and build incubator modules, wait for gestation .... all that pointless grind just to use one ability a single time.....

..... great now that's exactly what we're going to get..... *sigh*

[Oreades]

3 minutes ago, Nukke said:

I feel like Rebecca is the only one in DE to realize what players actually want and what is good for the game. Way back with Oberon's first passive she pointed out the obvious flaw and now again she was very verbal about the issue in hand. And there have been many cases in between. The developers don't seem very aware of the actual gameplay outside their small inside playtests.

What I think they are doing, and I believe this with all of my shriveled blackened heart.... is that they are literally just looking at metrics, seeing what is being "underused" and just shoehorning into the game in a way that they feel it will boost the usage metrics, regardless of mountains of feedback beforehand. Cause that is what so much of the recent updates have felt like to me. 

I feel that the question is "people aren't using this? How do we force them to use it?" when the question should be "Why aren't people using this?" 

Edited November 22, 2019 by Oreades

[GrimSinner]

Just tried the new blink and rip line and, ya know, it's not bad!  Not like the old blink to infinity and beyond, but it's okay.  🙂

The only thing I would prefer is the rip line pull you in much much faster!

Edited November 22, 2019 by GrimSinner

[m0b1us1]

I am fully aware that DE at times seems to be playing an entirely different game than most of the player base, but the changes to itzal is a whole other level of DE being completely out of touch.

Several streams ago, it was revealed (thanks to a bit too much adult beverages) that DE wanted to nerf the itzal because, and I pseudo-quote, that DE wanted players to use the k-drive more.

This is a recent example of DE being completely out of touch with their own player base. What DE has failed to understand is that us as players are reward driven. We want to get relics? We complete missions. If we want more relics? We try to complete missions faster or go for more rounds. With open world however, there is absolutely no reward for traveling. Take 10 minutes to travel 1000m? No reward. Take a few seconds to travel 1000m with the pre-nerf itzal? No reward. The only difference is that in order to get "no reward", one takes 10 minutes and the other less than 10 seconds. That is a massive amount of time difference that could be used to do any number of different things we WANT to do. Want to farm toroids in the space port? pre-nerf itzal would get you there in little time so there is minimal delay between you doing what you want. Now? Too bad for you! Now you have to spend more time doing something you are not rewarded for at all. Want to try to speed run eidolons and get as many as you can in 1 night? Too bad, DE wants you to waste time literally HOLDING 2 BUTTONS and occasionally pressing a third.

So what do they give itzal for such a massive nerf? A nerf that would reduce travel time to a mere fraction of the original? Must be something amazing right? Nope... they give it valkyr's worst ability... rip line... You know, for the high speed and chaos of archwing, you clearly have plenty of time to line up and aim perfectly on a single target and use an ability to fling them to who knows where. This ability SUCKS on valkyr already. But she at the very least can grab onto terrain and pull herself. On an archwing? This ability is 100% useless. Why would you ever use rip line on the itzal when you can use vortex? I hesitate to even mention vortex because DE has set a horrifying precedence here. Hey, I got 2 options. The first only hits 1 target, requires pin point accuracy, and flings them so far that I would have a better chance of finding 1 spider hidden among the hundreds of scarabs on Inaros when he is charging 4. The other option is an instant AoE that pulls any enemies in range to me (not flinging them out of map boundaries behind me), and pulls items to me. I know, the difficulty of the choice between the two is an avengers level threat.

Here is why I was, and always have been, adamantly opposed to a itzal nerf like this. Its sets a dangerous precedent of "nothing can be special/niche". When trials were still around, itzal was only used for speed running JV. Archwings like amesha and elytron were the most popular because they had the best ability to tank and clear enemies. Once open worlds were introduced and trials removed, there was no need for any archwing to have the tanking possibilities of the amesha or the clearing power of the elytron. So the best option by far became the itzal due to its vastly superior mobility, and even vortex was highly desirable for eidolons/orbs as it was an instant way to collect all the drops. Why spend minutes traveling 1000+m to do one part of a bounty when you can spend seconds? This is what DE, again in their own... influenced... words, said they disliked. They disliked that the players used the itzal because it was so much faster than the k-drives. So they nerfed the primary reason anyone ever used the itzal outside of farming resources, and they gave a vastly weaker version to all arch wings. Then they gave the itzal a completely lazy ability that has zero value. So, you know what will happen? People will still use itzal primarily in open world because it picks up drops the fastest. By DE's own logic that they just used to nerf the itzal, then what is to say that they won't nerf the itzal again and give every archwing the same ability but vastly weaker? So lets continue to follow DE's own logic and go ahead and do just that. Now every archwing has a blink and the ability to suck in items from a wide range. Why would I ever use the itzal when I can use the amesha? Basically used for the exact same thing, but the amesha is far far tankier. Continuing with DE's logic, now the Amesha gets nerfed and its uniqueness is broken into a weak version and shared among the others. Wait... now the itzal and amesha are both equally as mobile and tanky, but the elytron here has far superior clearing power as well. So now the most used archwing becomes the elytron. Before you know it, we apply the DE logic yet again and same thing. So when you once had multiple archwings with clear and distinct strengths and weaknesses, you now have virtually identical performing archwings. The only difference is now they all are completely inferior at what each one was strong at.

DE should have waited for rail jack to be released and then look at usage. Rail jack would allow the other archwings to finally have a reason to be used. If DE wanted more people to use k-drives, they should have more incentives to be used. Example, if I could easily/passively gather resources while using k-drive at the cost of taking longer travel time, I would be far more likely to use k-drive for generic travel. The itzal nerf was horribly thought out, and DE should be outright embarrassed with what they thought was a good replacement. DE needs to revert the archwing changes and wait for rail jack to come out and gather some data on what is used. Then actually take some time and think about the core issues and how to properly address said issues instead of throwing a band aid on it.

[Jarriaga]

I want to see all the Valkyr players who don't want Ripline removed from Valkyr because "Being Spiderman is fun" come and celebrate this. 

[Melanholic7]

im just really upset cause i bought alot of mods, level them , leveled Archwing (which isnt easy) and now its useless. Cause wtf is this new ability hook? its useless skill,omg. Such a waste, i cant believe. Itzal now useless crap. Thx =/

[Awazx]

Let's see if I got it DE:

Which archwing is one of the most fragile? Itzal, indeed.
What new skill have you given him? One that forces you to have enemies closer, that is, quite the opposite of what you want with Itzal.

No DE, Itzal is not the 'Valkyr' of the archwing.

You are welcome. Waiting for a rework of the this rework.

Edited November 22, 2019 by Awazx

[EinheriarJudith]

5 minutes ago, Melanholic7 said:

im just really upset cause i bought alot of mods, level them , leveled Archwing (which isnt easy) and now its useless. Cause wtf is this new ability hook? its useless skill,omg. Such a waste, i cant believe. Itzal now useless crap. Thx =/

lvling arching is stupid easy. one node. Neptune: Salacia

Edit: its pretty much the hydron of archwing

Edited November 22, 2019 by EinheriarJudith

[EinheriarJudith]

even among all the archwings, itzal is still the fastest. the blink needed to go and i wont miss it, but the replacement should definitely be something else.

Edited November 22, 2019 by EinheriarJudith

[EinheriarJudith]

7 minutes ago, Awazx said:

Let's see if I got it DE:

Which archwing is one of the most fragile? Itzal, indeed.
What new skill have you given him? One that forces you to have enemies closer, that is, quite the opposite of what you want with Itzal.

No DE, Itzal is not the 'Valkyr' of the archwing.

You are welcome. Waiting for a rework of the this rework.

itzal has stealth fragility means nothing.

[Oreades]

1 minute ago, EinheriarJudith said:

itzal has stealth fragility means nothing.

It also has crush which has the same effect as Ripline but in an AoE which is far more useful in a hoard shooter. 

 

[Awazx]

à l’instant, EinheriarJudith a dit :

itzal has stealth fragility means nothing.

Stealth that breaks when you enter combat. Iztal is not Loki either. Itzal's fragility is significant.

[DagoDrakh]

When Rebecca talked about the blink on stream I asap jumped into warframe before the patch just to measure the pre-nerf ability with a stopwatch. I did a test of 500m blink which was about 2.4 sec. After the nerf this gone up about 6.8 sec, sooo thanks I guess?? And I crystal clearly remember in a dev stream Scott talking about the blink first and everyone panicked in the chat that it will get nerfed and Scott basically said: Nah. We just want to give all the archwings the ability to blink...

[EinheriarJudith]

1 minute ago, Awazx said:

Stealth that breaks when you enter combat. Iztal is not Loki either. Itzal's fragility is significant.

no it doesnt.

[EinheriarJudith]

2 minutes ago, Oreades said:

It also has crush which has the same effect as Ripline but in an AoE which is far more useful in a hoard shooter. 

 

you wont get any arguments from me on that. ripline was a terrible choice.

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

3 hours ago, LSG501 said:

To be honest there are 'better' ways of fixing this than adding in the nerf via a cooldown....

They could have given all archwings a fifth ability (ie blink), in the same way warframes can go into operator via pressing 5, archwings could blink by pressing 5 because we don't actually go into the operator in this mode. 

 

Edit: actually the probable reason for the cooldown is so we can't just blink everywhere in railjack missions, which I can kind of understand, but still doesn't stop it feeling like a nerf. 

Agreed. Which would be totally fine if they were upfront and honest about the reason. But let's not pretend that them giving Blink to every archwing is a boon when other than quickly traversing open world's we have literally no reason to ever use archwing. In this case the cooldown is simply a nerf and the ripline replacement is about as 'out of touch' as the Vauban rework.

Also, as others have mentioned, giving Blink multiple charges would at least allow players to jump quickly from place to place and only then needing to recharge the ability. This would allow players to manage their usage and still cover large distances quickly, just with increased downtime between longer jumps.

Are we giving DE too much credit in thinking they have a good reason for the change other than the fact that they want to nerf Itzal/Blink?

[Valiant]

1 hour ago, Skaleek said:

It's finally here boys, the Itzal has rip line... IN SPACE!

I am overjoyed that the most popular warframe ability, rip line, has been successfully migrated to archwing. This is just the boon archwing needed to stimulate the playerbase to start trying it again.

Did laugh at this outloud on a train. Especially the boon remark

🤣🤣