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ixidron92

Blink nerf and railjack archwing gameplay.

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On 2020-01-02 at 9:38 PM, Drasiel said:

It's interesting. Many of the same statements were made when coptering was removed and bullet jump was added.

Took them way too long to add #5-Dash. Effectively, it's very similar to coptering.

On 2020-01-02 at 9:38 PM, Drasiel said:

I wonder how many people have looked at the railjack intrinsics that affect archwings for blink and increased movement speed that applies to all versions of archwing. 

Not. Even. Close to what we had on Itzal.

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1 hour ago, Uthael said:

Took them way too long to add #5-Dash. Effectively, it's very similar to coptering.

Not. Even. Close to what we had on Itzal.

so old blink travelled 400m-640m in space and 40m-65m on land

New blink travels about 570m in space and 100m on land. Considering 100m in space takes seconds to cross the new blink is at worst equivalent and at best a bit better on distance.

The new blink cool down reduces to 2.45 seconds with the right intrinsics which is only inferior to itzal's blink because of energy pizzas. Any other method of energy acquisition is inferior to the cooldown once you hit your energy limit. Archwing energy regen is 1/s meaning if you maximized for blink it would take 11 seconds to charge your blink once out of energy. Zenurick is 5/s needing 3 seconds to reach 11 energy.

New blink is pretty damn close to old blink. The only complaint I could see is wanting to add mods that affect it. Without mods old blink is inferior.

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11 hours ago, ixidron92 said:

So.... exactly as we've been doing before the nerf with no problem, but for every archwing instead of just Itzal. You're just trying to imagine problems were there are none. I'm not asking for anything new! I'm just asking them to revert the freaking Blink to its previous state. We've been doing perfectly fine with it without problems.

Lol no I see no problems, why would I imagine ones. New blink is good, its a buff to 3 AWs and slight nerf to 1, so it's a win. It's energy free, also good.

Instead of making it cost energy for no cooldown I'd rather have mods that increase blink distance and decrease cooldown. AWs lack mods, and in view of modular AWs coming I hope DE will fix it.

3 hours ago, Drasiel said:

The new blink cool down reduces to 2.45 seconds with the right intrinsics

It's even shorter with right timing.

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Posted (edited)
On 2019-11-22 at 12:02 PM, ixidron92 said:

FFS people used blink to quickly traverse from place to place.

Then, you give it a 3 second cooldown and try to portray it as something good by highlighting in bold that it's range has doubled and costs no energy, when it truth it's a massive nerf because it now takes way more time to cover the same distance, that would be a -10.

 

That instant blink to traverse  was really fun and fluid. One of the best archwing 2.0 features that should have been kept. That 3 sec  cool down feels very bad. 

This is one of those fake sugar coated  BAD NERFs. DE please stop destroying the fun factors as you think  you are just "balancing" the gameplay. It's not "balancing"; it's destroying the game. Players are yelling at you and why aren't you listening?  Can't you see the massively declined player base? Why do players stay? When the grinding process and gameplay is fun and rewarding. Why do players leave?  When the game becomes slower and  slower and many things get wrongly  "balanced". It's disgusting to hear you explaining why it or something or anything is nerfed as you kill the fun factors one by one over 20 months. 
Please respect our progress, players choices of favorite weapons and time invested to rank anything up or to build any metas. 

Edited by George_PPS
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Posted (edited)
hace 2 horas, George_PPS dijo:

That instant blink to traverse  was really fun and fluid. One of the best archwing 2.0 features that should have been kept. That 3 sec  cool down feels very bad. 

This is one of those fake sugar coated  BAD NERFs. DE please stop destroying the fun factors as you think  you are just "balancing" the gameplay. It's not "balancing"; it's destroying the game. Players are yelling at you and why aren't you listening?  Can't you see the massively declined player base? Why do players stay? When the grinding process and gameplay is fun and rewarding. Why do players leave?  When the game becomes slower and  slower and many things get wrongly  "balanced". It's disgusting to hear you explaining why it or something or anything is nerfed as you kill the fun factors one by one over 20 months. 
Please respect our progress, players choices of favorite weapons and time invested to rank anything up or to build any metas. 

I think this is the first time they face such instant backlash and so hard. I mean thing is still going one months after. The very moment they showcased the new cooldown the chat erupted into complains and they had to change the text in the patchnotes to highlight in BOLD that it's free! and has more range! and gives you hugs and kisses! while trying to downplay the part about the cooldown. 

Honestly, between this, the entire old blood and the entire railjack update, I'm no longer spending a dime on this game. This is the first F2P game ever where I spend money in. Not because I felt the need to, but because I liked the direction. At least until the last trimester of 2019. That was a disaster of epic proportions. They've killed the fun in 3 months. That's gotta be a record. No more money for DE on my behalf until they fix this mess.

Edited by ixidron92
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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Drasiel said:

New blink travels about 570m in space and 100m on land. Considering 100m in space takes seconds to cross the new blink is at worst equivalent and at best a bit better on distance.

Distance ain't the issue. In fact, shorter distance made it easier to control where you end up. People complained about this too, but those aren't frequent or loud complains.

10 hours ago, Drasiel said:

The new blink cool down reduces to 2.45 seconds with the right intrinsics which is only inferior to itzal's blink because of energy pizzas.

*Not because of pizzas but because it's still a cooldown. Flying around in AW with Zenurik buff allowed for fast energy buildup even without pizzas. You could burst that energy out to move at any time. Even if you unequip and reequip it later.

10 hours ago, Drasiel said:

Any other method of energy acquisition is inferior to the cooldown once you hit your energy limit. Archwing energy regen is 1/s meaning if you maximized for blink it would take 11 seconds to charge your blink once out of energy. Zenurick is 5/s needing 3 seconds to reach 11 energy.

Now, (correct me if I'm wrong, I'll edit) it's 100m every 2.45s, that's 100/2.45 = 40.8m/s

5e/s * 2s + 1e/s * 2s = 12e. 12 energy every 2 seconds.
You got to travel 65m for the cost of 11.25 energy (mods). 65*12/11 = 69.3m/s

That's over 50% better! How is that inferior?! But the main point is that you can store the charge to use it at any time.

 

10 hours ago, Drasiel said:

New blink is pretty damn close to old blink. The only complaint I could see is wanting to add mods that affect it. Without mods old blink is inferior.

Why would anyone play without mods? Don't give me "because they don't have them.". All of us who're against the change have access to Energizing Dash, pizzas and range/efficiency mods for AW.

 

6 hours ago, Marcus.Argonius said:

Lol no I see no problems, why would I imagine ones. New blink is good, its a buff to 3 AWs and slight nerf to 1, so it's a win. It's energy free, also good.

Instead of making it cost energy for no cooldown I'd rather have mods that increase blink distance and decrease cooldown. AWs lack mods, and in view of modular AWs coming I hope DE will fix it.

It's not a "slight" nerf. That's why we're complaining here.

The other half of complaining is that we've lost the freedom to roll and aim "above up" and "below down" (they should allowa toggle in Options for that). But that's off-this-topic.

Give me a corrupted mod / augment that says "Blink can accumulate up to 10 charges. Shortens Blink travel distance by 50%. Reduces your maximum energy by 50%."
And let me rebind blink to a separate key. I'll be happy.

Edited by Uthael

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Where's that fantasy about "empowering the player" here?
It's the reason we're allowed to stack crit chance above 100% and have 0-cooldown abilities which cost only 25% of their energy cost.

I know I'm putting up a strawman here. But there are many other "game-breaking" examples, so in this case, it's not called a strawman, it's an example. Ask and I'll fill a post with more.

 

Itzal's blink wasn't nearly as game-breaking as a whole bunch of other stuff. What we got now is a limitation that feels like old stamina.

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There are so many strawmans in this thread that the amount of plastic we recycle cant upkeep it.

My experiences with this new blink and replacement is mixed,
Im great full for the now booming pizza economy, but at the same time I feel like Itzals ripline ability is as useless as... I dont think there is anything more useless than it. As for the movements in open world, I just use Zephyr, I did everything there is to do in these, I have no reason to take it slow anymore since Im tired of them.

Arcwing in railjack:
I hate it, I just die even while abusing amnesa.
Reached the intrinsic spread of 8/8/7/7, managed to solo some Veil missions without using much arcwing and sticking to my ship, got all 3 weapons farmed a nice reactor and everything so people dont do a "ah but you want stuff nao" card on me. I did the work I was expected to do, but I still heavily dislike what theyve done to arcwings in this mode. Im no longer running railjack missions, neither pubs, host or solo, its too  tedious and I dont feel any personal progression with it,

We need new arcwing mods as a way to adapt to the changes easier.

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3 hours ago, Uthael said:

Distance ain't the issue. In fact, shorter distance made it easier to control where you end up. People complained about this too, but those aren't frequent or loud complains.

*Not because of pizzas but because it's still a cooldown. Flying around in AW with Zenurik buff allowed for fast energy buildup even without pizzas. You could burst that energy out to move at any time. Even if you unequip and reequip it later.

Now, (correct me if I'm wrong, I'll edit) it's 100m every 2.45s, that's 100/2.45 = 40.8m/s

5e/s * 2s + 1e/s * 2s = 12e. 12 energy every 2 seconds.
You got to travel 65m for the cost of 11.25 energy (mods). 65*12/11 = 69.3m/s

That's over 50% better! How is that inferior?! But the main point is that you can store the charge to use it at any time.

 

Why would anyone play without mods? Don't give me "because they don't have them.". All of us who're against the change have access to Energizing Dash, pizzas and range/efficiency mods for AW.

 

It's not a "slight" nerf. That's why we're complaining here.

The other half of complaining is that we've lost the freedom to roll and aim "above up" and "below down" (they should allowa toggle in Options for that). But that's off-this-topic.

Give me a corrupted mod / augment that says "Blink can accumulate up to 10 charges. Shortens Blink travel distance by 50%. Reduces your maximum energy by 50%."
And let me rebind blink to a separate key. I'll be happy.

I'm not saying people would use old blink without mods, I'm saying the mods are what made it superior. Ergo the real problem is not new blink it's the lack of blink mods. 

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Posted (edited)

People still crying about this is absolutely ridiculous.

They had a damn good reason to do this. I don't want instantaneous travel across entire maps. It completely defeats the purpose of having big maps, let alone anything open world. They may as well just spawn us immediately in front of our objective and let us fast travel to the next one. That's basically what y'all want.

I will agree that a 3 second cooldown is a bit too long. I feel like it should be 1 second, and then boost the base speed of all Archwings dramatically (alongside the kit rework they have planned).

Edited by DrakeWurrum
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hace 2 minutos, DrakeWurrum dijo:

People still crying about this is absolutely ridiculous.

They had a damn good reason to do this. I don't want instantaneous travel across entire maps. It completely defeats the purpose of having big maps, let alone anything open world. They may as well just spawn us immediately in front of our objective and let us fast travel to the next one. That's basically what y'all want.

I will agree that a 3 second cooldown is a bit too long. I feel like it should be 1 second, and then boost the base speed of all Archwings dramatically (alongside the kit rework they have planned).

The devs obviously didn't want instantaneous travel either. That's why they added 2 forms of unlimited distance teleport and the archwing slingshot!

The point is, cooldownless blink could be the perfect tool to make archwing a capable dogfighter. We already have the slingshot and the teleports to traverse the massive maps undisturbed.

Please, notice that if blink were to cost energy, it would be less efficient at traversing long distances than the current blink. Sure, you could travel 5 kilometers in one burst if gone from a full extended energy pool with modded efficiency, and then you'd be out of juice. Considering most objectives spawn 15-20km away from the starting place, I would say the old blink is far from useful there.

Meanwhile, the aggro reset and the projectile avoidance, not to mention the quick maneuverability, would make cooldownless blink shine in the battlefield.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, ixidron92 said:

archwing slingshot

Only goes 3000m, and then you're stuck flying the normal way.

5 minutes ago, ixidron92 said:

That's why they added 2 forms of unlimited distance teleport

Not sure what you're referring to here. Nova portal is probably one, which absolutely should be toned down. I don't normally use Nova, but I can't think of many portal uses outside open world anyways, so maybe she needs a better ability.

Do you mean the Tenno dash? That's not really a teleport, and has many different combat uses depending on which school you use. And the only way to make it effectively unlimited is, again... pizzas. Which isn't ideal.

Maybe they should put a 1-minute cooldown on pizzas to address this properly. It's a little bit absurd that I could spam 5 of them at once, and devalues them heavily.

5 minutes ago, ixidron92 said:

The point is, cooldownless blink could be the perfect tool to make archwing a capable dogfighter.

I don't really see anybody even try to use Blink in combat when watching them from my pilot seat, but maybe they're just bads.

The problem with a no-cooldown Blink is the ability to spam the button to completely bypass the entire map. At which point, again... why bother giving us a big map to traverse if your response to it is to spam a teleport button until you get to where you wanna go?

Edited by DrakeWurrum

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Posted (edited)

@DrakeWurrum - Holding W with middle finger, spamming Shift with pinky and checking facebook on mobile with your mouse hand ain't any more interesting.

Tell me... Why can we Void Dash through several tiles (ofc, depending on tile size and your Void Flow and Mind Sprint)?
If they removed that, it'd be the same feedback as Itzal Blink.

Edit: Gauss effectively removes enemy presence by ragdolling any near him. And it costs almost 0 energy. And that's a new frame. Able to ignore water, btw.

7 minutes ago, ixidron92 said:

Meanwhile, the aggro reset and the projectile avoidance, not to mention the quick maneuverability, would make cooldownless blink shine in the battlefield.

Make it leave a visual "heat-trail". That would warrant removing both aggro reset and projectile avoidance.

Quick maneuverability is what most of us want back.

Edited by Uthael

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hace 2 minutos, DrakeWurrum dijo:

Only goes 3000m, and then you're stuck flying the normal way.

Not sure what you're referring to here. Nova portal is probably one, which absolutely should be toned down.

I don't really see anybody even try to use Blink in combat when watching them from my pilot seat, but maybe they're just bads.

The problem with a no-cooldown Blink is the ability to spam the button to completely bypass the entire map. At which point, again... why bother giving us a big map to traverse if your response to it is to spam a teleport button until you get to where you wanna go?

I mean the warp to railjack and warp to player.

Do you think that maybe people don't use blink while dogfighting because it's not worth it? Or because everyone uses the Amesha which instantly stops enemies from moving? We don't have alternatives. 

Do you realize killing the fighters is mandatory? So, even if you bypass the entire map it's for nothing. And now, you can't even bypass the entire map, you can bypass maybe 25% and then you're stuck flying without being able to blink anymore. Like I said, the current blink is better for long range traversing.

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Uthael said:

Quick maneuverability is what most of us want back.

Hilarious complaint when current Archwing controls are extremely maneuverable relative to what it used to be.

14 minutes ago, Uthael said:

Holding W with middle finger, spamming Shift with pinky and checking facebook on mobile with your mouse hand ain't any more interesting.

Never said it was more interesting. I just think that if you're going to be asking for no cooldown on Blink, we might as well just get rid of these maps entirely and give us boss rooms in place of full missions. Because apparently everybody in Warframe is just too impatient to ever actually travel anywhere. I'd rather ask for more populated and interesting maps than demand to be able to bypass it all.

14 minutes ago, Uthael said:

Tell me... Why can we Void Dash through several tiles (ofc, depending on tile size and your Void Flow and Mind Sprint)?

That should also be toned down. I don't see a separate broken mechanic as at all justifying other broken mechanics. I see it as shoddy and inconsistent game design.

14 minutes ago, Uthael said:

Edit: Gauss effectively removes enemy presence by ragdolling any near him. And it costs almost 0 energy. And that's a new frame. Able to ignore water, btw.

Irrelevant. With Gauss you're actually traversing the map and interacting with it, just at high speed. To really make Gauss faster than Archwing takes a full party of people specifically to support his speed.

9 minutes ago, ixidron92 said:

I mean the warp to railjack and warp to player.

Warp to Railjack is meant to speed up the gameplay, and also make it easier for you to prevent mission failure simply as a result of a badly timed breach. Also, your Railjack... well, you have to get it to where you want it to be. You first had to travel across the map yourself via Archwing for warping back to actually... cross the map.

And with warp to player, you still need at least one person get to where you wanna go. That's not really bypassing much. That's just good teamwork.
It doesn't really have a pragmatic use in Railjack, though, imo. You don't need more than one person for any objective. Maybe useful for Sentient anomaly to help farm drops, but that's it.

9 minutes ago, ixidron92 said:

Do you realize killing the fighters is mandatory?

Oh, I know it is. That's why everybody ignores the fighters, goes straight to the objectives, and if they don't get their drop, leaves.
That's why everybody instantly teleports to fighters instead of first crossing the map to fight them.

Don't forget all the required fighters out in Orb Vallis or Plains of Eidolon on the way to the next objective.

Gee, it's almost like the real reason people want to get rid of the Blink cooldown is for instant map traversal...

Edited by DrakeWurrum

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17 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

At which point, again... why bother giving us a big map to traverse if your response to it is to spam a teleport button until you get to where you wanna go?

The bigs maps reminds me of Hyrule Field in OOT 64, big and breath taking sure, but theres alot of empty space in between. During your first runs you take things slowly to capture the feel of your environments, but after 50-60-70 runs you just wanna move faster between them.  Heck I still spam roll in wf because I spam roll on these zelda games alot, (I even run arcane consequence with rolling guard). I do have a sick speedy kitboard for ocations, and my intrinsic is 8/8/7/7 AND I use Zephyr alot, I like fast see? Fast for me is life.

Now on railjack I see a problem with alot of empty space and not much in them. My suggestion is that during railjack, after the missions are all done, you can unlock unlimited blink to collect all loot. I plan to do a feedback thread with this suggestion, but Id be haha'ed to oblivion.
 

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1 hour ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Hilarious complaint when current Archwing controls are extremely maneuverable relative to what it used to be.

That's another topic. Disagree, btw. Except for the inertia, I don't miss that, was badly implemented.

1 hour ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Never said it was more interesting. I just think that if you're going to be asking for no cooldown on Blink, we might as well just get rid of these maps entirely and give us boss rooms in place of full missions. Because apparently everybody in Warframe is just too impatient to ever actually travel anywhere. I'd rather ask for more populated and interesting maps than demand to be able to bypass it all.

Players have access to Vallis and Plains way before they get to fly in an Archwing. The incentive is to make your first AW to be able to skip the idle walk after you've done it a bunch of times.
I don't want boss rooms! I like flying up and around. I also liked rolling and looping (that another topic).
Maps ARE nicely populated and interesting. Any more than this and they'd be cluttered.

1 hour ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Irrelevant. With Gauss you're actually traversing the map and interacting with it, just at high speed. To really make Gauss faster than Archwing takes a full party of people specifically to support his speed.

And that's FUN! Both, with other people buffing you and without. It's highly relevant. With Itzal, you could play your favorite frame and switch to the fun speed mode whenever you wanted at a press of a button and the cost of some resources (a few pizzas). I see nothing wrong with that.

1 hour ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Gee, it's almost like the real reason people want to get rid of the Blink cooldown is for instant map traversal...

Pretty much. Yeah. And there are some (me included) who just like the speed. That's why I use Volt instead of a Nova for speed missions. Teleporting is less fun. The camera was fluid while you spammed Blink.

How about putting a secondary objective on EVERY map with AW... An inhibitor structure that, when you destroy it, removes some stupid restrictions (like Blink cooldown). It would be hidden initially, but after you complete the primary objectives, it lights up on your map.

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On 2019-11-23 at 4:02 AM, ixidron92 said:

Are you gonna lie to us again? or are you gonna keep up your word?

 

On 2019-11-23 at 4:03 AM, (XB1)Skippy575 said:

The real crime is giving Itzal a ripline ability.

Don't worry you guys! DE's just gonna fix everything by nerfing it all six feet under! That way the blink nerf will feel like the best feature of Empyrean!

Nerf Amesha!

Slower arch-gun projectile speeds!

Lowered cryophon damage!

Even lower arch-gun damage!

Truly, 2020 is going to be the YEAR OF NERFS!

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6 hours ago, Uthael said:

Give me a corrupted mod / augment that says "Blink can accumulate up to 10 charges. Shortens Blink travel distance by 50%. Reduces your maximum energy by 50%."

Yep augment that will return old blink for those who want it would be great.

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