With Ivara Prime on the horizon, here is the comprehensive overview of shortfalls that should be investigated and addressed.

[bibmobello]

2 minutes ago, Grave.Knight said:

Not in 100% agreement but I do agree with a lot of what you said.

I think Cloak Arrow is fine how it is. I wouldn't mind if we could lock on to friendlies though, just make the trick we try to do sometimes easier to do. Dash Wire is great for traversal, while Bullet Jump is faster you can clear certain rooms that Bullet Jump can't, that being said, would like to see it improved. Maybe add some new animations and make it usable at any angle. As for Noise Arrow, just get rid of it, this is something that would work better in a game like Thief were you deal with a single target and need to get by with true stealth (as in sneaking, not as in press button to turn invisible) but in this game you have much better ways to stealth (like hitting a button to turn invisible). Sleep Arrow is okay, though it would be better if they add in frontal stealth finishers.

Honestly with Navigate, I honestly wish they would go with a flat cast cost. It's such a situational ability that it's pretty unfair that once you meet the situation to use it you suffer. Definitely agree it with endless punch through (though if combine with my idea of flat cost would need a duration than), definitely agree with endless flight time (again would need a duration).

Prowl I think is mostly fine. Or more to the point they do need to tone down the speed limitations (as in remove it). I don't mind not being able to bullet jump and all that, that's what Dash Wire is for. I like Infiltrate as is (would be better if we didn't have the speed limitation but it still increased your speed, though as a bonus buff so it works something like a Rush and also ignore lasers).

I don't really have much opinion on Artemis Bow (mostly cause I don't use it much). Do wish they would make it act more like Cernos Prime but you'd end up removing some functionality with it. As for Concentrate Arrow, maybe turn it into two different mods. One for the Bow and One for Ivara. The Ivara one just makes one super arrow like you suggest and the Bow one is a 100% proc explosion that removes punch through.

Do you wanna try 10 minutes mot or eso? You can take Mesa, saryn, equinox and even god   and watch my stats at the end...

anyone  has never used ivara on serious missions and speak about the void...

Edited December 7, 2019 by bibmobello

[GrimSinner]

8 hours ago, bibmobello said:

She just has the highest insane single target (multiplier)DPS in game but you can see that only on unarmored enemies (aka corpus if you just watch the stats at the end of a mission).

Just to give you some statistics... with 320% strength(total unusable in a survival mission)

she has 128% headshot bonus

+320% critical damage

18X multiplicator with navigator.

Then don't ask to me why i have(almost every time) 90-100% damage dealt at the end of any mission(and saryn, equinox, volt and people with a 1.000.000 plat riven are thinking to be scammed) or a newbie blocked me because he was searching for a dps...

Topping damage by overkill is significantly less important than total mission kills.  So what if you topped the damage meter by killing a few single targets?  When your Ivara kill count is 100 and Sayrn's kill count is 900, the clear winner is Saryn with lower damage output.

[bibmobello]

8 minutes ago, GrimSinner said:

Topping damage by overkill is significantly less important than total mission kills.  So what if you topped the damage meter by killing a few single targets?  When your Ivara kill count is 100 and Sayrn's kill count is 900, the clear winner is Saryn with lower damage output.

single target dps means while i am alive killing level 300 corpus demolysts during arbitration, saryn and inaros died from a while... Ivara wins with higher damage but everyone has different ways to play this game.

just as optional, Ivara is viable to kill an eidolon, saryn can't.

Edited December 7, 2019 by bibmobello

[GrimSinner]

And yet your challenge earlier was:

4 hours ago, bibmobello said:

Do you wanna try 10 minutes mot or eso? You can take Mesa, saryn, equinox and even god   and watch my stats at the end...

10 minutes in Mot or ESO will not be level 300+ enemies.  So you're just flexing single target overkill damage to top low level damage stats.  

[bibmobello]

1 minute ago, GrimSinner said:

And yet your challenge earlier was:

10 minutes in Mot or ESO will not be level 300+ enemies.  So you're just flexing single target overkill damage to top low level damage stats.  

That was only to show the damage at the end. if we are killing the same enemies we should deal the same damage to them  being level 10 or 300...

Edited December 7, 2019 by bibmobello

[selig_fay]

4 часа назад, bibmobello сказал:

That was only to show the damage at the end. if we are killing the same enemies we should deal the same damage to them being level 10 or 300...

Briefly about how is counting damage. The first line - damage. Line 3-number of kills. Can be on level 300 statistics and will more plausible, but in normal content it is important only number of killings. Statistics show false things, otherwise I don't know how one can have 1000% accuracy.

Спойлер

Another point, I don't think Ivara needs nuck mechanics.

Edited December 7, 2019 by zhellon

[bibmobello]

2 hours ago, zhellon said:

Briefly about how is counting damage. The first line - damage. Line 3-number of kills. Can be on level 300 statistics and will more plausible, but in normal content it is important only number of killings. Statistics show false things, otherwise I don't know how one can have 1000% accuracy.

  Reveal hidden contents

Another point, I don't think Ivara needs nuck mechanics.

You have over 100% accuracy when you hit multiple targets with one bullet, if you hit 10 enemies with 1 bullet you have 1000% then you have an average at the end of the mission. Statistics can give false informations but when in every mission on eso or during arbitrations you get over 90% with ML 28 players saryn or mesa or volt or equinox.... The statistic are totally wrong against grineers because you can only compare the damage if you have 4 CP, you can ask yourself why... Because you can just shot an enemy 10 times to reduce the armor and at the end dealing more damage on ferrite for example while another guy  using viral and slash  can kill it faster but it will deal much less damage. If they remove overkills or at least they give a reason to exist should be better for everyone but they will never do that because it's an incentive to buy or roll rivens to show your friend your results....

Edited December 7, 2019 by bibmobello

[bibmobello]

On 2019-11-24 at 11:09 PM, Xzorn said:

 

She still scales quite high simply because she's a stealth frame. Helps she also has numerous multipliers but level cap? Nah.

There are still frames that can hit lvl 2,000 - 5,000 range under perfect storm conditions. ie Zephyr vs Corpus. Limbo Vs Infested, ect.

I know without buffs Lanka on it's own can scale to lvl 2,000 Corpus so ideally Ivara with her modifiers can push more.

EDIT:  I do hope they update Artemis Bow. After the bow rework I find it hard to justify. I've been converted to the Daikyu dark side since DE seems to hate Dread. When you compare Artemis to Daikyu or Lenz; it's pretty hard to reason it's energy costs.

It useless to say what frame can reach level 9.999 because few insane people play 16 hours in a row using broken mechanics. They removed covert lethality finisher and they are starting to remove broken mechanics(better now than nothing). It's not hard to understand that Octavia is pretty broken, considering she press just on button and nothing else and she will be nerfed soon or later, same for saryn, press only 1 button but  till level 100 because after that she has no survivability.

It's even more useless to watch old videos with old missions because the new missions on jupiter or destruction on lua are pretty hard. Now try octavia or saryn during arbitration disruption on lua and then try ivara. With ivara at least you have to aim and she is able to kill a level 200 demolyst, octavia and saryn can't.

Survival on jupiter is  hard because enemies are pretty aggressive,  full of toxic aura, with nullifiers jumping everywhere, mines and stupid traps, try to reach level 9999(or just  level 200) there.

Edited December 7, 2019 by bibmobello

[DatDarkOne]

17 hours ago, BlindStalker said:

The melee attacks Rebecca was doing would've easily drained Ivara's energy pool because of the double stacking of energy drain on movement and energy drain on melee attacks at the same time. She would've had to better manage Ivara's energy pool during that period too.

Uhhmmm, I have mentioned many times that I use melee A LOT while in Prowl and don't have to worry about my energy.  

Also when Reb was using Cloak Arrow she wasn't really moving much at all while in it.  

17 hours ago, bibmobello said:

There is nothing wrong about ivara. Most people don't play her because their  IQ is too low to understand her potentials, she requires a bit of brain and or there is no need for such potential on low level missions.

Thank you for saying what I've been saying for years.

On 2019-12-06 at 3:07 PM, Azamagon said:

I don't think his request was hard to understand: Summoning Artemis Bow currently requires you to stop at the moment - he just want it castable while moving. What did you not understand here?

He was talking about controlling Navigator while controlling Ivara at the same time. That is why I asked for clarification on exactly what he meant.  

edit:  The one thing that I did notice was that Reb showed just how easily Ivara can take control of an enemy ship.  And do so without having to kill any enemies.  No other frame will be able to do this and still pilot it too without having to merc every enemy on it first.  This is something I figured would be the case when they first mentioned invading enemy ships months ago.  

That one thing had me hoping that Scott wasn't paying attention as he's the first one to Nerf stuff by his own admission.  

Edited December 8, 2019 by DatDarkOne

[BlindStalker]

1 hour ago, DatDarkOne said:

Uhhmmm, I have mentioned many times that I use melee A LOT while in Prowl and don't have to worry about my energy.  

Also when Reb was using Cloak Arrow she wasn't really moving much at all while in it.  

The way I would like to use melee (blender style/melee spam), I would never try to do that type of style with Ivara, even though I'd like to. The energy drain is noticeable and I would rather spend the energy on actually make use of the rest of Ivara's kit in any given situation.

Okay, that's fair to say Reb wasn't really moving around much while in the cloak arrow and was mainly stationary. If not for prowl's movement restrictions then I don't really see a reason as to why Reb even bothered to turn prowl off throughout that entire run. She was in dev godmode, she couldn't die and her energy did not drain at all during the mission so it destroys any real sense of danger throughout. She could've kept prowl on either way, no real need to use cloak arrows. Well, no real need to have used any abilities to be honest.

They were showcasing empyrean I get that, but I'd rather see some actual excitement/danger during a dev-stream to add to the experience.

1 hour ago, DatDarkOne said:

edit:  The one thing that I did notice was that Reb showed just how easily Ivara can take control of an enemy ship.  And do so without having to kill any enemies.  No other frame will be able to do this and still pilot it too without having to merc every enemy on it first.  This is something I figured would be the case when they first mentioned invading enemy ships months ago.  

That one thing had me hoping that Scott wasn't paying attention as he's the first one to Nerf stuff by his own admission.  

I honestly wouldn't worry. The Leeroy Jenkins crowd have frames fine-tuned to nuke entire rooms in mere seconds at the push of a button. It doesn't matter if there's 1 or 30 enemies besides the pilot, they'll be able to handle them with ease with the tools that we have. No one can stop you from piloting the ship if they're all dead. Ivara being able to waltz in and kill the 1 pilot and do as she pleases isn't that outstanding (the other invisible frames can achieve a similar effect anyways for a given period of their respective invisibility timers). Alternatively, there's always the lazy option of taking Inaros and doing your thing (a well built Inaros will simply be 'tickled' by the grineer guards and Inaros can just kill the 1 pilot and not care about the rest of the grineer guards/crew).

  

3 minutes ago, (XB1)XxAnonymous V2 said:

When will she be coming?

December 17th, is when Ivara Prime is set to arrive.

Edited December 8, 2019 by BlindStalker

[(XBOX)XxAnonymous V2]

When will she be coming?

[DatDarkOne]

4 minutes ago, BlindStalker said:

I honestly wouldn't worry. The Leeroy Jenkins crowd have frames fine-tuned to nuke entire rooms in mere seconds at the push of a button. It doesn't matter if there's 1 or 30 enemies besides the pilot, they'll be able to handle them with ease with the tools that we have. No one can stop you from piloting the ship if they're all dead. Ivara being able to waltz in and kill the 1 pilot and do as she pleases isn't that outstanding (the other invisible frames can achieve a similar effect anyways for a given period of their respective invisibility timers). Alternatively, there's always the lazy option of taking Inaros and doing your thing (a well built Inaros will simply be 'tickled' by the grineer guards and Inaros can just kill the 1 pilot and not care about the rest of the grineer guards/crew).

You don't even have to kill the pilot with her.  Reb didn't kill the pilot the first time.  Because of Prowl she was able to control the ship the whole time to it's destruction.  That's long enough for me to do the same with my 744 energy on only 160% Efficiency and 95% duration.  You might have noticed that some in the chat actually noticed that and screamed "NERF!"  Which is why I am hoping Scott wasn't paying attention.  

As for nerf, remember that didn't stop DE from nerfing the interaction between Navigator and Arca Plasmor and similar type projectiles.  I really don't want a stupid nerf to a frame doing what it was designed to do because it does it well.  

[BlindStalker]

54 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

You don't even have to kill the pilot with her.  Reb didn't kill the pilot the first time.  Because of Prowl she was able to control the ship the whole time to it's destruction.  That's long enough for me to do the same with my 744 energy on only 160% Efficiency and 95% duration.  You might have noticed that some in the chat actually noticed that and screamed "NERF!"  Which is why I am hoping Scott wasn't paying attention.  

As for nerf, remember that didn't stop DE from nerfing the interaction between Navigator and Arca Plasmor and similar type projectiles.  I really don't want a stupid nerf to a frame doing what it was designed to do because it does it well.  

Ah it seems killing the pilot is an optional thing, not a requirement when boarding an enemy ship.

Reb/Ivara wasn't really controlling the ship/situation, she was basically playing a sabotage mission with an objective that needed to be destroyed. Killing was optional, nor did she need to CC anything really.

So entering an enemy ship is like playing a sabotage mission. Not quite exactly the same, but heavily influenced by sabotage mission type. You go in and your main objective is to destroy the reactor and get out. Killing is not a requirement to destroying the ship. There isn't much difference between boarding an enemy ship and a sabotage mission (the sabotage will likely only require you to press a few extra consoles before you have to destroy the main objective). Ivara can waltz right through any sabotage mission currently without any issue, killing is optional for her. Is she OP for sabotage? No. Any invisible frame can do the exact same thing because invisibility. But you can also basically achieve a similar effect with a tanky frame with high eHP, waltz right through the sabotage mission (ignore killing enemies), activate your consoles, destroy the objective and just waltz on out. Because well tuned high eHP frames can just ignore all threats and do their thing without any real danger.

Sure, it's nice to kill the pilot and to fly the ship around for shenanigans, but not a requirement at all in regards to actually destroying the enemy ship. 

I wasn't watching the stream live, I watched it after it was posted. I didn't bother to look at the yt chat either, my focus was on the video itself only. If anyone screamed nerf, then they are not that far into the game, don't understand mission structure and probably don't have fine-tuned gear. There are far more OP things in Warframe than Ivara (or any invisibility frame) being able to waltz through any sabotage mission and complete it with ease. I personally don't think DE will consider nerfing that aspect of the game.

Edited December 8, 2019 by BlindStalker

[DatDarkOne]

15 minutes ago, BlindStalker said:

If anyone screamed nerf, then they are not that far into the game, don't understand mission structure and probably don't have fine-tuned gear. There are far more OP things in Warframe than Ivara (or any invisibility frame) being able to waltz through any sabotage mission and complete it with ease. I personally don't think DE will consider nerfing that aspect of the game.

Over the years I have seen people here on this very forum scream "Nerf!" for no other reason than spite.  Thankfully, there have been other Tenno to shoot those down before they can gain traction.  

15 minutes ago, BlindStalker said:

Sure, it's nice to kill the pilot and to fly the ship around for shenanigans, but not a requirement at all in regards to actually destroying the enemy ship. 

I think you are missing the tactical advantage this can bring to the space battle.  Instead of having just the Players Railjack to use, taking control of another ship to use now makes it two ships in the battle instead of just one.  😄   You must have missed how Reb and Sheldon use both ships to do a pincer attack on another enemy ship.  I'm not gonna lie, I been thinking of using this very method to solo Railjack.  Even before DE showed it.  hehe.  

Edited December 8, 2019 by DatDarkOne

[Xzorn]

3 hours ago, bibmobello said:

It useless to say what frame can reach level 9.999 because few insane people play 16 hours in a row using broken mechanics. They removed covert lethality finisher and they are starting to remove broken mechanics(better now than nothing). It's not hard to understand that Octavia is pretty broken, considering she press just on button and nothing else and she will be nerfed soon or later, same for saryn, press only 1 button but  till level 100 because after that she has no survivability.

It's even more useless to watch old videos with old missions because the new missions on jupiter or destruction on lua are pretty hard. Now try octavia or saryn during arbitration disruption on lua and then try ivara. With ivara at least you have to aim and she is able to kill a level 200 demolyst, octavia and saryn can't.

Survival on jupiter is  hard because enemies are pretty aggressive,  full of toxic aura, with nullifiers jumping everywhere, mines and stupid traps, try to reach level 9999(or just  level 200) there.

 

I don't recall saying anything about CL. I said Ivara scales well simply because she's stealth and Lanka scales 2,000+ because it's Lanka.

I've taken majority of the frame roster past lvl 300 Solo. It has nothing to do with broken mechanics. Players are just far beyond the content level DE tries to keep us at. I found Disruption to be a snore with Ivara in fact. You literally just stand around. Wait for the Demo. Spam sleep arrow, shoot and repeat. Enemies don't bother you and there's no reason to kill them so this Toxic aura, Nully, ect thing would be your own fault for killing enemies and rotating the spawns. The same thing applies to Interception missions.

You say they will be removed and yet they keep adding those mechanics. They did so with Vauban just recently. DE will never learn.

[DatDarkOne]

3 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

I don't recall saying anything about CL. I said Ivara scales well simply because she's stealth and Lanka scales 2,000+ because it's Lanka.

Hell, you don't even need the Lanka to do it.  That combo counter on sniper rifles is lethal in Survival missions.  CL was just a crutch that people used because it didn't need brain power IMO.  Players will now be quite surprised at just how much the normal weapons work on doing Stealth Finishers as well.  There is also this lovely mod that increases Finisher Damage that I would sometimes use on very low MR fodder weapons to help them with higher level enemies while ranking them up.  

[Chaemyerelis]

Someone in this thread is full of it...🤔

[DatDarkOne]

4 minutes ago, Chaemyerelis said:

Someone in this thread is full of it...🤔

I leave you with this lovely shot of Dat Azz to help you think. 

[BlindStalker]

15 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

I think you are missing the tactical advantage this can bring to the space battle.  Instead of having just the Players Railjack to use, taking control of another ship to use now makes it two ships in the battle instead of just one.  😄   You must have missed how Reb and Sheldon use both ships to do a pincer attack on another enemy ship.  I'm not gonna lie, I been thinking of using this very method to solo Railjack.  Even before DE showed it.  hehe.  

Okay, I wasn't really paying attention to what Reb and Sheldon were potentially trying to do together. There can be coop aspect to ship hijacking, makes sense if they want to have Railjack with a more coop feeling.

Not sure how they'll handle solo. Rewatching towards near the end, they kept it vague. Railjack is more coop oriented, but solo will supposedly be not entirely locked out. We'll have to see though how they implemented it, once we get our hands on it. 

Also, is that a Christmas elf Ivara avatar? When did that get added?

12 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

Yes it is Christmas Elf Ivara.  It got added very recently.  😁 

Thank you for the heads up. BRB while I grab new adorable holiday Ivara glyph and will have to wait years before it properly changes on the forums Edit, logging out seems to have worked thanks.

Edited December 8, 2019 by BlindStalker

[DatDarkOne]

7 minutes ago, BlindStalker said:

Also, is that a Christmas elf Ivara avatar? When did that get added?

Yes it is Christmas Elf Ivara.  It got added very recently.  😁 

[Xzorn]

14 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

Yes it is Christmas Elf Ivara.  It got added very recently.  😁 

 

"Year Long Christmas Elf Ivara"   =P

[bibmobello]

5 hours ago, Xzorn said:

 

I don't recall saying anything about CL. I said Ivara scales well simply because she's stealth and Lanka scales 2,000+ because it's Lanka.

I've taken majority of the frame roster past lvl 300 Solo. It has nothing to do with broken mechanics. Players are just far beyond the content level DE tries to keep us at. I found Disruption to be a snore with Ivara in fact. You literally just stand around. Wait for the Demo. Spam sleep arrow, shoot and repeat. Enemies don't bother you and there's no reason to kill them so this Toxic aura, Nully, ect thing would be your own fault for killing enemies and rotating the spawns. The same thing applies to Interception missions.

You say they will be removed and yet they keep adding those mechanics. They did so with Vauban just recently. DE will never learn.

During  disruption With ivara you are fkdup when you have  the energy drain penalty or energy leechers. Sincerely i never tried a squad full of expert ivaras i think should be fun because every time with pub squad is a total mess. I never used the lanka so much because i use mainly navigator and the riven disposition does not allow to have a decent -flight speed and now weapons with ivara bonuses can reach insane damage faster and higher although a lanka at 12X +ivara should deal the same damage it had the glaive before the nerf.

Edited December 8, 2019 by bibmobello

[DatDarkOne]

2 hours ago, BlindStalker said:

Thank you for the heads up. BRB while I grab new adorable holiday Ivara glyph and will have to wait years before it properly changes on the forums

Simple.  Just log out of the forums on all devices you use to access the forum with then log back in.  

[Xzorn]

5 hours ago, bibmobello said:

During  disruption With ivara you are fkdup when you have  the energy drain penalty or energy leechers.

 

Energy pads and don't fail those ones. Same with the Life drain ones.

I did that Event solo for the gold Clan trophy using Ivara. It was excruciatingly slow but easy.

[TheLexiConArtist]

25 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

Energy pads and don't fail those ones. Same with the Life drain ones.

I did that Event solo for the gold Clan trophy using Ivara. It was excruciatingly slow but easy.

That's pretty misleading. You made up your own contributions for the gold trophy while alone, perhaps, but you didn't solo-gold. Considering the event points were rated on both time-to-kill and concurrent console activity, it's incredibly unlikely that you could camp on the consoles and keep killing that long without an autokill or scaled damage. And I'm pretty sure Demos were finisher immune, so CL was obviously out.

 

As for the whole discussion regarding the ship in the Devstream demo - by the time Rebecca got onto the pilot seat, any number of other frames could have wiped the crew out completely, and as has been pointed out already, fatty tank frames could just ignore the damage with their sheer mountain of EHP.
For a meaningless difference in energy cost, you could have your Oberon sit there with Renewal active and replenish health faster than it's being shot away.
What's the difference? Ivara maintaining stealth is no more overpowered and non-interactive than Mesa jumping up onto a ledge, entering Peacemaker for 1 second, then having a clean and empty boat to fly around at her leisure.