DE did it again (Content qualtiy)

[tyreens]

Hey,

after the complete messed up old blood update, i had a bit of hope left that this update will be good. But after playing it for a bit i was disappointed again.

They had so much time to get this update done (Yeah, yeah i know it is only phase 1 but whatever) and it only recyles old content again. I hoped for a real unique quest and some cool quest cutscene at least. Just a few resources from old content and a some sh*tty time gated 0815 quests. Don't bring up those "Time gating is not bad here because you got so much time until phase 2 starts" arguments. There are players who will start this game when phase 2 begins. This is a bad design decision.

Than we come to the new orbiter design. I was really looking forward to it after i saw the first screenshots of it. But now what is this? Why does it looks so dirty and f*cked up? It break the style with the rest of the ship. If you rework something make sure it has the same style as the old one. It is okay to bring out some interior orbitor skins to change that if you want to but don't force a new design on players that is in the games for year. As a player you cannot rely on anything in this game. Rivens are changed, Weapons are changed, Warframes are changed, Designs are changed and i'm not talking about balancing, i'm talking about a complete change in look or playstyle. That is bad because player invest a lot of time in those things (looks, min/maxing, plat, resources).

And the third thing is the current state of kuva liches. After so much updates the kuva lich situation is still a complete mess. There were so many good feedbacks but they just don't care. Neither the shared kuva, the tradable kuva system nor the weapon reroll is a fix to the fact that you it too much rng for playing the old content again. The time/reward ratio is not worth that content.

Edited November 24, 2019 by tyreens

[Guest]

https://forums.warframe.com/forum/1219-feedback/

[Kaotyke]

*looks at OP's name and looks at previous posts*

[(PSN)robotwars7]

3 minutes ago, tyreens said:

some sh*tty time gated 0815 quests.

interesting phrase, you wouldn't happen to be German by any chance? that's a common German way of saying something's standard (though I use Bog Standard, as I'm in the UK).

on the topic though, things do change, and they always will, because the game has to keep evolving. I will say the RNG isn't always great, and I do think the Murmur grind could be eased off a bit, but other than that, I don't think the system is too bad. perhaps Empyrean will have what you're looking for, once we get the second phase anyway.

[Tyreaus]

I think the way they're doing Empyrean is better.

IMO, the core design problem I can sense from the Lich system was that they tossed so much on their plate all at once that the end result felt like a mess. That this update is smaller (and not a mainline) is a little more reassuring that they might not make that mistake again. Had they put a bunch of work into cutscenes and other such "big quest" items, it would have leaned more toward that "too much to handle all at once" problem.

As for the players who will start post-phase 2 on Empyrean: wouldn't they be garnishing many of the resources along the way anyway, cutting down on at least some of that time? Otherwise, the crafting time requirements is nothing new. Hidden Messages and The Limbo Theorem, IIRC, both time-gate in the same manner. Personally, I had little trouble with that: players in that part of progression tend to have a fairly wide breadth of things to do while those blueprints are crafting. Progression is very much a spiderweb than a straight line.

[ant99999]

Is OP going to make a guide "How to build up your Forums rep using only 'Haha' upvotes" or what?

[White_Matter]

I think they released this update only because of the outrage in the community.

Obviously they need more time to release railjack, so they released a small portion of it to fill the gap in the void created by a massive content drought in 2019. That I appreciate, because that means DE is aware of the situation. They could totally shut their doors till their next release, but at least they gave us something(I know it is not much), which indicates that they are trying.

So don't view this as a major update, this is like a prequel to a major update, just a tease. Keep that in mind when you review it. Time gate is an illusion created to make you think the content isn't merely an hour worth of grind or so. But like I said, this is not a proper content update. Don't pretend like it is.

 

With that said, I have to agree with the Lich situation. It is an utter mess.

I got my 3rd Kuva seer, in the last 6 liches. Meaning I repeatedly kept getting it with the same interval. - D A E A F A. The problem is, I already had the E and F as well. So I got 5 dupes in the last 6 Liches I killed. That is just bad design, can't blame the RNG alone.

And I got no ephemera either. So everytime I keep playing the Lich content, I prove my self right, which is what I said initially. It is a frustration based thoughtless grindfest with no proper design decisions behind it. Not player friendly at all. 

 

 

Edited November 24, 2019 by White_Matter

[JackHargreav]

The main problems have been fixed already.

You can get specific weapons if you want duplicates and now the rng has been lowered so you won't get too much duplicates either. Liches doesn't have to be stabbed to make them go away. So the lich system is completely fine in my humble opinion.

Railjack needs a lot time to build. Well a space ship not a weapon or a warframe. It's a gigantic structure so it makes sense that it would need time.

As for the quest, The New war coming soon so I don't get why you're crying. This mini quest is just there so the building isn't just collect the  material and that's it. I'm glad we get some sort of lore with this update at all.

[BLI7Z]

45 minutes ago, tyreens said:

Hey,

after the complete messed up old blood update, i had a bit of hope left that this update will be good. But after playing it for a bit i was disappointed again.

They had so much time to get this update done (Yeah, yeah i know it is only phase 1 but whatever) and it only recyles old content again. I hoped for a real unique quest and some cool quest cutscene at least. Just a few resources from old content and a some sh*tty time gated 0815 quests. Don't bring up those "Time gating is not bad here because you got so much time until phase 2 starts" arguments. There are players who will start this game when phase 2 begins. This is a bad design decision.

Than we come to the new orbiter design. I was really looking forward to it after i saw the first screenshots of it. But now what is this? Why does it looks so dirty and f*cked up? It break the style with the rest of the ship. If you rework something make sure it has the same style as the old one. It is okay to bring out some interior orbitor skins to change that if you want to but don't force a new design on players that is in the games for year. As a player you cannot rely on anything in this game. Rivens are changed, Weapons are changed, Warframes are changed, Designs are changed and i'm not talking about balancing, i'm talking about a complete change in look or playstyle. That is bad because player invest a lot of time in those things (looks, min/maxing, plat, resources).

And the third thing is the current state of kuva liches. After so much updates the kuva lich situation is still a complete mess. There were so many good feedbacks but they just don't care. Neither the shared kuva, the tradable kuva system nor the weapon reroll is a fix to the fact that you it too much rng for playing the old content again. The time/reward ratio is not worth that content.

Do you know Warframe always changes?

Remember when we had a cool squad image while loading instead of the Landing Crafts?

How the "map" looked before the actual Navigation was implemented and all of its changes in between? 

How the starting tutorial was before the remake of it, and that we could choose Loki instead of Volt?

Weapons always get changed, the meta always changes also... sadly, some overpowered stuff should've been nerfed a much longer time ago, but it is being slowly done.

I think it's good to kick players out of their comfort zones, and make them think from a different perspective. 

Edited November 24, 2019 by BLI7Z

[CephalonDizzy]

20 minutes ago, ant99999 said:

Is OP going to make a guide "How to build up your Forums rep using only 'Haha' upvotes" or what?

That's easy!

Just post highly misinformed complaints / vague insults at DE while using exaggerated language and offering no alternative / solutions to the problem.

Bonus points if you accuse everyone who disagrees to be a white knight.

Now you can also be a highly reputable forum warrior!

[tyreens]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Kaotyke:

*looks at OP's name and looks at previous posts*

 

vor einer Stunde schrieb ant99999:

Is OP going to make a guide "How to build up your Forums rep using only 'Haha' upvotes" or what?

 

vor 45 Minuten schrieb CephalonDizzy:

That's easy!

Just post highly misinformed complaints / vague insults at DE while using exaggerated language and offering no alternative / solutions to the problem.

Bonus points if you accuse everyone who disagrees to be a white knight.

Now you can also be a highly reputable forum warrior!

Of cause you get bad votes from people who are not your opinion but that doesn't makes my point of view less valid. I'm sure there are people who thinks like me about that content. You are free to not read my posts. I couldn't care less for my forum reputation or if you like it, i just give my opinion on the update.

vor einer Stunde schrieb (PS4)robotwars7:

interesting phrase, you wouldn't happen to be German by any chance? that's a common German way of saying something's standard (though I use Bog Standard, as I'm in the UK).

on the topic though, things do change, and they always will, because the game has to keep evolving. I will say the RNG isn't always great, and I do think the Murmur grind could be eased off a bit, but other than that, I don't think the system is too bad. perhaps Empyrean will have what you're looking for, once we get the second phase anyway.

Yeah i'm german 🙂 I hope so.

Edited November 24, 2019 by tyreens

[kevoisvevo]

2 hours ago, Kaotyke said:

*looks at OP's name and looks at previous posts*

Reddit deadass

[EdinaMonsoon]

old blood isn't messed up lol

[trst]

The entire point of phase one was for us to be ready and waiting for when phase two is done, it was never meant to include anything "new" besides the drydock and the Railjack construction itself. The new resources are already more than should have been expected of the update and to have expected gameplay additions with it is a bit silly.

Orbiter changes are just aesthetic. Some people like it others won't.

And there are two alternatives to large changes to existing content; abandon content just to put a new version in the game or to not make changes at all. Abandoning content is one of the longest standing complaints people have brought up and to do it intentionally would only serve to bloat the game with pointless outdated content (imagine instead of making Ember a useful frame they just made another and left Ember as a waste of resources). Then to not make changes at all to preserve players "investments" would result in the game going nowhere whatsoever and every old balance and design issue would pile up and ruin the game far more than it ever has already.

Then what other issues are there with Liches? Liches literally make old content replayable for a lot of players with the level increase, which is a feature players have begged for years to be added. The bulk of the rng solves itself over time and weapon rng is solved with trading. The rng for max rolls however is less out of line than Rivens yet also exists within the same "pure luxury" realm that Rivens do; you don't need them, you want them.

[SneakyErvin]

Personally I think this update was well placed and good. I havent done the quests yet but I didnt expect more than usual old tiles to find some lost pieces of a ship. I actually didnt expect any quests at all really.

As for the dirty look of the Orbiter, I actually quite like it since it is part of the work area and not the cockpit, living quarters or other parts of the ship. It fits in and makes sense. Have you ever been to a garage or workshop that is polished up, not dented or have an unused look to it, where everything is new and prestine looking? I havent, aside from some very specific factories.

And the changes to Kuva liches are good and what was needed. Not that I'll waste attempts on them just to get Kuva, but the way to actually drive them off from a mission through a tripple takedown is exactly what we needed. Fits perfectly in and fills a needed solution when you are really close to or have just unlocked a mod and dont want to waste the lich's chance of appearing the next mission. The possibility to keep both sides happy, those that dont wanna shank aswell as those that wanna.

Regarding the complaints about everything getting changed and not being able to rely on something for the infinite future. Well I can only say one thing. Welcome to online gaming! Since it sounds like this is your first ever online experience.

[Corvid]

2 hours ago, White_Matter said:

I think they released this update only because of the outrage in the community.

Since we've known that the dry dock would release early since at least Tennocon, I very much doubt that.

[(PSN)Jack_Mahler]

Il y a 2 heures, tyreens a dit :

Don't bring up those "Time gating is not bad here because you got so much time until phase 2 starts" arguments. There are players who will start this game when phase 2 begins. This is a bad design decision.

Now this is what I call a stupid argument(no offense): 1)this is the exact point of the update, to build the railjack while we wait for phase 2; 2)(this will make me sound like an a******, but..)about the player who will start when phase 2 launches, well, tough cookie, it's not DE's problem.

Edited November 24, 2019 by (PS4)Jack_Mahler

[Oreades]

Yes the Old Blood was release as and IMO due to two (maybe three) lingering issues is still a hot mess that I won't touch with a 10ft pole. However the Drydock update is for the most part** fine, it's just front loading the waiting period of Empyrion at a time where it doesn't really matter because there is nothing past that wait. Most people who want the drydock/railjack will be able to grind that out well before Empyrion actually drops. 

I actually think Drydock for the most part** was a strait up good move on DEs part. If people are stressing over not being able to rush to the point where they .... can't do anything because the thing we will be doing hasn't been added yet.... that's totally on them in this instance, not the Devs. 

 

**Now where drydock fails is based on the sheer size of the Drydock and shines a light on how outdated and desperately in need of an update the Dojo room system is. 

[cmacq]

People keep talking about trading their Liches. How are you doing that? Surely not in trade chat where's it's full of riven posts and scrolling by so fast you can barely read it? And what does a 25% elem Lich even sell for?

Edited November 24, 2019 by cmacq

[SneakyErvin]

19 minutes ago, cmacq said:

And what does a 25% elem Lich even sell for?

Drimfizzles and Hoogaberries.

[XRosenkreuz]

2 hours ago, tyreens said:

Of cause you get bad votes from people who are not your opinion but that doesn't makes my point of view less valid. I'm sure there are people who thinks like me about that content. You are free to not read my posts. I couldn't care less for my forum reputation or if you like it, i just give my opinion on the update.

I'd say that if you only ever complain and don't actually propose ways to fix what you're complaining about, your point of view is significantly less valid.

[tobiparty]

You don't need to be so rude OP, i know why your angry. But we are so far away from phase 2 that rushing stuff is kinda pointless.

[tyreens]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb XRosenkreuz:

I'd say that if you only ever complain and don't actually propose ways to fix what you're complaining about, your point of view is significantly less valid.

I made many proposes to fix that kuva liche mess. Like them or not, but they exist.

vor einer Stunde schrieb tobiparty:

You don't need to be so rude OP, i know why your angry. But we are so far away from phase 2 that rushing stuff is kinda pointless.

How does it impact the quality of the content whether how far away we are away from phase 2. They had enough time to be more creative than recycle old content again.

vor 3 Stunden schrieb (PS4)Jack_Mahler:

Now this is what I call a stupid argument(no offense): 1)this is the exact point of the update, to build the railjack while we wait for phase 2; 2)(this will make me sound like an a******, but..)about the player who will start when phase 2 launches, well, tough cookie, it's not DE's problem.

In what world isn't it DE's problem? In my opinion they made a bad design desicion to but it behind a huge, unskippable time gate and reuse old content again. It seems like a cheap way to keep us busy like the kuva lich system. I expected more of them especially after old blood and so much time.

vor 3 Stunden schrieb EdinaMonsoon:

old blood isn't messed up lol

I'm of a different opinion. It was the worst update i've witnessed since i started to play warframe.

[(PSN)Jack_Mahler]

il y a 25 minutes, tyreens a dit :

In what world isn't it DE's problem? In my opinion they made a bad design desicion to but it behind a huge, unskippable time gate and reuse old content again. It seems like a cheap way to keep us busy like the kuva lich system. I expected more of them especially after old blood and so much time.

To me, it's like saying that "The War Within" was a bad update because it forces new players to get all the way to Sedna before they can play it

[SenorClipClop]

Oh, go jump out the airlock you shill.

I'm building a spaceship.