New Orbiter visuals missing something ? Tennocon 2019 VS U26.1 post VS Reality

[XamTheOne]

Something went wrong between the update 26.1 forum post and what we got for the new Orbiter.

It seems the floor, and maybe other parts on the side, are missing their reflection effect, and the difference between current renderer and new renderer is possibly making the scene look darker.

Here's a screenshot comparison.

Tennocon 2019 version, with new WIP renderer (better lighting/shadows, unreleased):

Here's the image posted in the forum notes for Update 26.1 (current renderer, notice the presence of reflection on the floor and illumination):

And finally, here's what we have in-game as of Update 26.1.1 (high settings, default colors. No reflection on the floor) :

[AdunSaveMe]

Perhaps the floor shininess was a last minute change. Personally I like it a lot more as a matte surface.

[NightmareT12]

Looks to me like they haven't settled yet as to how the lighting and materials are supposed to look yet. I believe there was another upgrade with a new renderer supposed to come with Empyrean that we haven't gotten yet, even though we've got the metallics and tonemapping thingies.

Update notes pic seems to be taken in a space without skybox though. Apparently there's a skybox that looks like that, my bad.

Edited November 24, 2019 by NightmareT12

[Leyvonne]

I think Steve said something about the lighting changes not being in the update so the forum image could be from the dev build.

[TenebraeAeterna]

I mean, to be honest, I expected a lot more done to the entire ship...not just that room.

Maybe this is just going to be released in parts...which isn't really a bad thing, as it'll have us quickly looking around to see if anything's changed, heh. That skylight is gorgeous.

[TwoWolves]

I'm sorry, but you don't sell a Bentley, and then turn around and swap it out for a Geo Metro when the customer isn't looking. Yeah, I realize DE isn't actually selling anything, but the point stands. The orbiters were once beautiful and scratch-free, and now look like they have regressed. Make the scratched-up crap an optional skin that DE can charge people 500 plat for and be done with it. Don't make the "clean" version the one you sell because again, you're taking away something and turning around and attempting to sell it right back to us, then.

[XamTheOne]

Il y a 22 heures, AdunSaveMe a dit :

Perhaps the floor shininess was a last minute change. Personally I like it a lot more as a matte surface.

Regardless of preferences, it's inconsistent with the demos, and the other rooms in the ship. The slope that leads up to the Liset, the Liset's floor itself, and the floor on the lower part of the Orbiter all have reflections. It just stops in the area in the screenshot. That is why it seems unintended to me.

[XamTheOne]

Il y a 8 heures, TwoWolves a dit :

Yeah, I realize DE isn't actually selling anything

It's a common misconception, but a free to play game is selling something. The price is just not attached to the access of the game, and we are indeed clients using a service. A free to play game with zero players is not a viable product, therefore we are a valid source of feedback and DE knows they must keep their customers happy to retain them. Sorry for ranting a bit 🙂

[TwoWolves]

Yeah, I know our mere presence in a f2p game is enough to trigger advertisement subsidies and whatnot that equate to millions of dollars that devs need to in order for everyone to get paid. I'm in no way knocking DE for trying to make a profit. Nothing wrong with that whatsoever. Nor am I trying to dump on whoever actually worked on the textures--that probably took a few weeks of development time. 

Here's the thing, though: It would look fine, if that is the way the orbiter had looked from the very beginning. If, when we first get our orbiter, it had looked tore up, there would be no issue. It's been how many years, now, that the orbiter's interior hasn't changed...? That is why this is such a slap in the face--our orbiters went from beautiful and pristine (in comparison to all the other locations we visit, which are often industrial and dirty) to something that looks like whoever owns it doesn't give a crap about it's appearance. The orbiter is a piece of bygone technology that cannot be replicated with modern techniques (just ask the corpus about their vermink/hazardous waste-into-food idea), and the cleanliness of it was a subtle way to reinforce the fact that we are flying something special, regardless of where it was found. In fact, the whole idea that the orbiter is found in a Grineer junkyard is a bad idea for one reason above all others: The Grineer aren't going to just dump a piece of technology that is far more advanced than theirs in some dump to rot away. Not when the Corpus are actively pursuing every possible piece of Orokin technology they can to enhance their own. Not only that, there's the actual changes to the stations as well. The new breeding station looks like it can't decide if it wants to be Orokin, Corpus, or Grineer. Greatly preferred the bubble.

If the orbiter would have been junked, and as we progressed, suddenly became cleaner, we all would be having a different conversation about how it was "improved," not down-graded, going from something that looks like we actively maintained it and kept it clean (and where the hell are those domestic bots in the orbiter, anyway? Shouldn't there be at least one Corpus roomba running around in there? I'd have stolen one from Jupiter just for that purpose!) to something that looks like we just dug it out of the bottom of a trash heap. That is a regression, not progress, and it makes no logical sense. If they'd wanted to rework the interior of the orbiter, it should have been a new mission to acquire parts for the dorsal viewport, just like we've had to go on missions to collect parts for all the other stations. The metal surface textures should have been left alone because it was already out in the wild. 

That would be like Bethesda telling Fallout 4 players that hey, we're swapping out your power armor that you've spend days collecting paint schemes for, for a set of road leathers. It's not anywhere near equivalent, and smacks of Indian-giving. The lighting (or sudden lack thereof) changes destroyed the "cozy" feeling of the orbiter, viewport or not, and exacerbated the problem. I would rather spend days/weeks/months/years grinding for a brand new orbiter through a void mission to recover one from an Orokin sentry tower that isn't scratched and dented to hell, just to have the look back of our original orbiters. 

[NightmareT12]

1 hour ago, TwoWolves said:

Here's the thing, though: It would look fine, if that is the way the orbiter had looked from the very beginning. If, when we first get our orbiter, it had looked tore up, there would be no issue. It's been how many years, now, that the orbiter's interior hasn't changed...?

Not really true. The thing here is the Orbiter is supposed to be old and abandoned for centuries. Before DE couldn't showcase that fantasy very well due the lack of PBR. After PBR was introduced, they still didn't fully update the Orbiter. Until now.

Now, that isn't to say they couldn't offer a clean look for it as a free skin of sorts, with other variations being sold for plat, but there's nothing essentially wrong with what they did.

Edited November 25, 2019 by NightmareT12

[XamTheOne]

il y a 8 minutes, NightmareT12 a dit :

The thing here is the Orbiter is supposed to be old and abandoned for centuries

Off topic, but from a practical standpoint, what would corrode and scratch the interior of a sealed spaceship if it was abandoned for centuries ? Would've been more likely to have happened to the exterior. Plus, Ordis only lets an operator inside the ship. So for these marks to make sense, I would theorize that the original users of it must have been bullet-jumping around and bumped into the walls, and those marks weren't caused by "aging".

[TwoWolves]

6 hours ago, NightmareT12 said:

Not really true. The thing here is the Orbiter is supposed to be old and abandoned for centuries. Before DE couldn't showcase that fantasy very well due the lack of PBR. After PBR was introduced, they still didn't fully update the Orbiter. Until now.

Now, that isn't to say they couldn't offer a clean look for it as a free skin of sorts, with other variations being sold for plat, but there's nothing essentially wrong with what they did.

Again, taking away something (the clean look) and turning around and selling it is going to backfire in a wave of resentment and ill-will. It was already "clean" the entire time Warframe has been out. Now, all of the sudden, we go into the head, take a leak, and come back to find some vandal has completely trashed the inside of the orbiter. They should have either showcased it from go, or not at all. Now, it comes across as half-baked and in a cynical fashion (if DE decides to sell "clean" skins instead of selling the new "dirty" skin).

5 hours ago, xamtheone said:

Off topic, but from a practical standpoint, what would corrode and scratch the interior of a sealed spaceship if it was abandoned for centuries ? Would've been more likely to have happened to the exterior. Plus, Ordis only lets an operator inside the ship. So for these marks to make sense, I would theorize that the original users of it must have been bullet-jumping around and bumped into the walls, and those marks weren't caused by "aging".

See my earlier comment about it being Orokin, and Orokin tech being extremely advanced. The fact that it has been pristine for countless millennia adds a subtle psychological element, reinforcing the fact the Orbiter is unique and rare--not even the Corpus can reproduce such technology. "Wow, I can't even scratch the paint! Look!" is a thought that would come to mind, durability lending a uniqueness to it above and beyond the dirty, industrial look of Grineer gallies. The answer to your question in the first sentence is, absolutely nothing. Absolutely nothing should be able to scratch or corrode something of Orokin origin due to "lost manufacturing techniques" or something. The ship is supposed to be made of material that cannot be duplicated, and that would, necessarily, include paint jobs.

[Pulsar63]

I wanted to express my disappointment about the "new" Orbiter look (U26.1), and finally I found this thread.

Honestly, I'm amazed that just a few people are complaining about this new look (maybe most players are too busy playing or building Railjacks, rather than to gaze at their Orbiter... ;-).

I agree with @TwoWolves : this "used" and degraded look, beyond being (subjectively) ugly, is objectively a nonsense. It's Orokin tech, it's been pristine and marvelous for years... and now it looks like a worn-out Grineer cellar?!? 😄

Not only the overall look feels old and abused, the components design is decidedly backward-looking: before, the Foundry looked like a futuristic nano-assembler, now it looks like a 3D printer from the '80s. With the big metal bar and the huge threaded parts, it reminds me of a lathe from an old Soviet factory.

Talking about factory, yes, that's what the main Orbiter room looks like now: straight from an obsolete factory, a mechanical workshop, or your grandfather garage with his old tools around.

Before this update, we had an Orbiter that looked as modern, sleek and high-tech as a Prime Warframe. It looked great and it felt amazing; it felt like watching the future.

And now... now any time I go into the main room... it seems to me I'm going back in time, to the factory I worked in during the '80s, with the grease, the scratched paint and the old rusty tools.

Please: give us the previous Orbiter back. Let us watch the future again. Not this sad remnant of a bygone era.

[XamTheOne]

If you haven't tried it yet, they added a slider in the orbiter colors menu to decrease/increase the amount of scratches. Not perfect, but it helps.

Interestingly, since my original post, they added elements to the systems that look like a battery track with three slots, one of them left empty. Wonder why that appeared...

[Pulsar63]

7 hours ago, xamtheone said:

If you haven't tried it yet, they added a slider in the orbiter colors menu to decrease/increase the amount of scratches. Not perfect, but it helps.

Yes, I found it.

It sure helps in lessening the "old factory" look, but the design is still "late XX century", not futuristic like it once was.

I mean, even Star Trek - The original series (from the Sixties, no less!) had a more futuristic look! 😄