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Piterros990

Kuva weapons should require less forma to get them to max rank

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This is ridiculous. Having like 10 new weapons, and each requires 5 forma to get to max rank, and you're not even going to benefit from doing so besides having that extra affinity towards your account. Most weapons require just 3-4 forma to function perfectly and fit all required mods, and that is for weapons that have max 60 capacity, and those go up to 80, so you end up with at least 20 spare points you can't use because even the most expensive mods don't take up that much capacity. In my opinion, the weapons should go through like this: 30-35-40 (two forma in total). Not only is it not wasting capacity because you could probably get most of these weapons to work with 2 forma (because 80 capacity), it's also saving time, blueprints and resources for formas, especially considering each one's build time is 24 hours and you have tons of other frames/weapons where that forma could be used to actually benefit you.

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it wont happen now that everyone forma'ed their weaponssince there would be a #*!%ing backlash 

 

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4 minutes ago, 8faiNt said:

it wont happen now that everyone forma'ed their weaponssince there would be a #*!%ing backlash 

 

Now that I think about it, true... It's sad that DE didn't look at that perspective in the first place.

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What is the point though of getting them to max rank?

Feels to me like the extra capacity just means that 2 forma is roughly worth a third in total drain that you can fit on there. The Paracesis gets bonuses for extra ranks, but don't these get only the capacity?

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12 hours ago, Aryustailm said:

What is the point though of getting them to max rank?

Feels to me like the extra capacity just means that 2 forma is roughly worth a third in total drain that you can fit on there. The Paracesis gets bonuses for extra ranks, but don't these get only the capacity?

Mastery Rank and Completionist bait.

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On 2019-11-25 at 8:25 AM, Lone_Dude said:

Mastery Rank and Completionist bait.

It honestly triggers me so much as a completionist. It's stupid as f*ck.

Maybe they should add that the weapons get increased stats or some extra interesting perks when formaing. Otherwise this is ridiculous.

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I've been sinking 5-7 forma into weapons that Didn't do that for 5 years now.

Since when was this a right?

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1 hour ago, kapn655321 said:

I've been sinking 5-7 forma into weapons that Didn't do that for 5 years now.

Since when was this a right?

I guess since Paracesis ended up being a good addition (how with each forma it gets buffed and capacity get increased up to 5 forma) they thought it was a good idea to make you dump 50+ forma for nothing else besides affinity and bragging rights.

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6 minutes ago, Piterros990 said:

nothing else besides affinity and bragging rights.

Things that have extremely little effect on your performance, but have a higher top end if you feel like bothering.

I get that it gets under people's, "need," to see things complete.
That is totally an optional feature, that we are in no way required to perform for.
It's a way to get a little more out of your forma should you choose to do it, and a little more mastery for your profile,
and I guess that's a bad thing? I don't get it.

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It's not only the cost of the 5 formas, but the mindless grind to rank up to 30 each time (even via Hydron, ESO, etc).

I can understand doing it on Paracesis as a one-off concept, but for 13 weapons? But wait, there's more, DE has said Infested and Corpus will have their lich weapons in the 'distant' future too.  😞

Yes, the completionist in me may finally be put to rest in this update. The longer this game goes on, it seems they need to find more ways to prolong the grind too. Yeah, yeah, it's free-to-play, yada, yada, but there're some lines you shouldn't cross and DE is pushing that too much.

When they first showed off liches and announced that Kuva weapons won't have MR, I thought hey, I'm gonna really enjoy this content. But when they changed their minds, I thought, ugh, well now I'm gonna have to get all those weapons.  Then when it was known that 5 formas were needed for full MR, I think I just broke down mentally and shook my head.

Some decisions are bad, but then there's this...

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One alternative, since a lot of people have already started forma'ing these weapons, is introduce new umbra mods: very good, but very expensive in terms of capacity, without the option for matching polarity (outside of umbra for a, which is currently nightwave exclusive). 

This would be something for all weapons, technically, but give Kuva weapons the edge because of increased capacity.

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I think it’s cool to have weapons past 30. If it keeps me playing the game and getting the weapons to do better than I’m down. No reason to get all butt hurt and kissed just because you don’t wanna grind to 40 or use forma. If you have that much of a problem with how the game is going than don’t play it simple as that.

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On 2019-11-28 at 9:02 PM, (PS4)Agent_Venpool said:

I think it’s cool to have weapons past 30. If it keeps me playing the game and getting the weapons to do better than I’m down. No reason to get all butt hurt and kissed just because you don’t wanna grind to 40 or use forma. If you have that much of a problem with how the game is going than don’t play it simple as that.

Keeping players active is fine, but when it doesn't cross the line. I think you misunderstood my point, maybe you are a veteran who has played the game since alpha and through all these years have collected absolutely everything and have 5000+ spare plat on you all the time and you don't care about the playerbase dropping. Only veterans like that can afford wasting 65 forma for completionist reasons. But for most other players, you either have to waste 100 plat for one weapon, or grind your arse through relic opening for forma and then wait 5 days for all to finish, just for a SINGLE weapon. In the meantime, I could use all that forma to make 5 weapons or min-max 2 that I enjoy using.

This game, with so much content in it, is like a buffet for completionists. It's fun, because you can enjoy all various kinds of weapons, frames, and manage resources in your own way. However, having to forma these weapons 5 times each feels like a different version of that Steam achievement where you have to travel 1 million meters on a K-Drive. In my opinion, they should add some progression towards these weapons for them to be worth forma-ing. As I've already suggested - maybe some damage or stat tweaks.

Or, maybe they should remove the dumb rng 25%-60% damage bonus and instead change it so it increases with each forma put in? Like 25%->35%->45%->50%->55%->60%. This would only hurt if you've got impact, but at least it would be no rng bullS#&$ where every roll you get ranges from 25-30% (that's literally how my first 4 weapons were).

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I'm okay with the weapons needing 5 forma. That's only 65 days of build time to craft 5 forma for all 13 new weapons.

Also, you underestimate the value of having a bunch of extra capacity. I'll never use some of the guns like Kuva Kohm since I completed it, but now that it has a weapon exilus slot, I can use it to fit in a much needed ammo mutation mod. The best part about that? The huge amount of extra capacity means I could slot in the primed mutation and still not worry about incompatible polarities! You can bet that if I can find that damn Kuva Brakk, I'm gonna take advantage of that exilus slot irrespective of polarity and slap a projectile speed mod in it so I can use it at more comfortable distances. And what's that? Extra capacity to slot in a riven without needing a polarity? Don't mind if I do!

Edited by Pizzarugi
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I think I have to agree that it is way too much... Unless you're absolutely drowning in forma, 65 of them (not to mention having to level each gun to max 6 times) purely to gain all the mastery is completely unreasonable. Most of the guns aren't even things I'd want to keep, and I don't want to have to spend 5 forma per mastery fodder weapon. Something more reasonable would have been 2 forma, with each giving +5 capacity instead of 5 forma giving +2 each. Or even better, just make them have 40 ranks by default, since they don't even have any special effect related to the extra levels, unlike paracesis. Or just didn't grant any extra mastery beyond rank 30.

Sadly this is -extremely- unlikely to ever be changed, since people have already spent time and forma for the mastery. Still wonder what they were thinking when they released the kuva weapons like this.

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17 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

I'm okay with the weapons needing 5 forma. That's only 65 days of build time to craft 5 forma for all 13 new weapons.

Also, you underestimate the value of having a bunch of extra capacity. I'll never use some of the guns like Kuva Kohm since I completed it, but now that it has a weapon exilus slot, I can use it to fit in a much needed ammo mutation mod. The best part about that? The huge amount of extra capacity means I could slot in the primed mutation and still not worry about incompatible polarities! You can bet that if I can find that damn Kuva Brakk, I'm gonna take advantage of that exilus slot irrespective of polarity and slap a projectile speed mod in it so I can use it at more comfortable distances. And what's that? Extra capacity to slot in a riven without needing a polarity? Don't mind if I do!

The sentence where you mention "only 65 days" makes me feel you are being ironic right now. In the first place you need blueprints for those, and relic opening takes time and luck. Also, as I have already mentioned, there are much better places to use formas, like warframes or weapons that don't have 80 bloody capacity.

Yeah but keep in mind exilus slots already have base polarity, and some kuva weapons have built-in polarities, making it a huge waste when it comes to it. No matter how hard you try - for example I'll take Kuva Chakkhurr - you will not be able to run out of capacity with 8 polarized slots and 80 max cap.

Oh, and about rivens - they said they're appearently going to be nerfing them. And you need a good riven in the first place.

And just like Redpaws said - some of them are just mastery fodders you want to get rid of, like Kuva Seer. 5 forma to get affinity from a mastery fodder? Why tho?

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To add playtime...

 

playtime that feels like wasted time, that leads to less playtime cause ur frustrated

 

the 5 forma to max these things out is a bad idea, also is the % elemental bonus that is fricking random, getting all the weapons is also also a not good feeling way to add playtime, and reusing 10 weapons out of 13 is also also also just not a good idea and it looks frecking lazy from the players point of view

overall is this a massive grindfest, I had fun with the 1st 2-3 liches, from there on it was just boring grind.

if there are liches for every faction, maybe just add the new weapons and maybe add a thing that we can attach to any weapon we have in the arsenal, lets call it "Lich-adapter". with that we can add the elemental damage to any weapon and than forma it 5x to bring it up to a capacity of 80. so I can choose wich weapon to elementalize.

 

I really liked ...

vor 19 Stunden schrieb Piterros990:

Or, maybe they should remove the dumb rng 25%-60% damage bonus and instead change it so it increases with each forma put in? Like 25%->35%->45%->50%->55%->60%. This would only hurt if you've got impact, but at least it would be no rng bullS#&$ where every roll you get ranges from 25-30% (that's literally how my first 4 weapons were).

 

have a great day, tuench

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3 hours ago, Piterros990 said:

The sentence where you mention "only 65 days" makes me feel you are being ironic right now. In the first place you need blueprints for those, and relic opening takes time and luck. Also, as I have already mentioned, there are much better places to use formas, like warframes or weapons that don't have 80 bloody capacity.

Maybe if you're new, I guess. I've got next to nothing else to use my forma on beyond maybe polarizing slots to try and slot new rivens into something, so building 65 forma to fully master 13 kuva weapons isn't a problem for me. It also encourages me to stay engaged with the Lich system otherwise I'll just get burned out from content drought, and this is probably one of the biggest features they've released in a long time.

Also, it's not hard to get forma from relics. Run some fissures with relics that have forma as a common drop. That's what I've been doing.

3 hours ago, Piterros990 said:

Oh, and about rivens - they said they're appearently going to be nerfing them. And you need a good riven in the first place.

What nerfs? Or are you talking about disposition shifting again? This isn't new. Weapons that grow in popularity always tend to get their disposition lowered. People were telling me Dual Keres are much better than my Prisma Dual Cleavers, but it relies entirely on its 5/5 riven disposition. I wonder how much better it'll be if it gets knocked down to 4/5 or 3/5 since there's been an increase in demand for those rivens, same with Dragon Nikana.

3 hours ago, Piterros990 said:

And just like Redpaws said - some of them are just mastery fodders you want to get rid of, like Kuva Seer. 5 forma to get affinity from a mastery fodder? Why tho?

You're silly if you think Kuva Seer is mastery fodder. It's more or less a corrosive variant of the Tombfinger Kitgun if you built for more status chance, with a much smaller ammo max. I'd rather have corrosive explosions rather than radiation, and I could slap on a mutation in the exilus slot to make the ammo problem a non-issue. This doesn't even cover how much stronger the gun gets with the Lich element bonus.

Edited by Pizzarugi

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what they need to do for these sorts of weapons (that go to 40) is to allow players to reset them WITHOUT forma. Problem solved.

After all, using more forma when you don't need the mod capacity tends to just lock you into builds and prevents having more diversity.

Either that, or do what I've been advocating for years now, and let us overlap polarities on any given slot (so someone can go crazy and put 40 forma into a frame to be able to run any mod combination, plus Umbral mods now). They could even keep Aura forma as is, I guess, since it's specifically for auras and more rapidly allows players to bring the aura needed by their team.

53 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

 I'd rather have corrosive explosions rather than radiation

Just a quick sidenote: isn't it typically more useful to apply a single rad proc in a radius rather than a single corrosive proc? You need something applying lots of procs to make corrosive do its job, but radiation only needs one good hit to get a good distraction going

Edited by Xarteros

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9 minutes ago, Xarteros said:

Just a quick sidenote: isn't it typically more useful to apply a single rad proc in a radius rather than a single corrosive proc? You need something applying lots of procs to make corrosive do its job, but radiation only needs one good hit to get a good distraction going

Depends on the faction and playstyle, I suppose. I don't have much use for radiation beyond maybe Infested in order to isolate healers or burning down eidolon. If I want CC, I'll play a frame that has it or creates minions such as Nekros, Nidus, or Revenant. 😛

Edited by Pizzarugi

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3 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

Maybe if you're new, I guess. I've got next to nothing else to use my forma on beyond maybe polarizing slots to try and slot new rivens into something, so building 65 forma to fully master 13 kuva weapons isn't a problem for me. It also encourages me to stay engaged with the Lich system otherwise I'll just get burned out from content drought, and this is probably one of the biggest features they've released in a long time.

Well, should I consider myself new with 700+ hours on record? And I'm gonna admit I've been kinda tryharding towards mastery, hence I'm a completionist. As I've said - if it's fine for you, that most likely means you don't have anything else to use it on, and that most likely is in the case if you've already reacher MR 28 and have min-maxed at least half of the frames.

3 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

What nerfs? Or are you talking about disposition shifting again? This isn't new. Weapons that grow in popularity always tend to get their disposition lowered. People were telling me Dual Keres are much better than my Prisma Dual Cleavers, but it relies entirely on its 5/5 riven disposition. I wonder how much better it'll be if it gets knocked down to 4/5 or 3/5 since there's been an increase in demand for those rivens, same with Dragon Nikana.

Disposition isn't the thing here, I know about it. I'm not 100% certain in terms of that but I've seen a video mentioning it, that they are putting up a schedule for nerfing rivens. Ivara Prime Access will come with a first nerf towards prime weapons (specifically mentioned, for example, quoting "A riven for Soma that gives +100% damage will give +85% on Soma Prime"). Appearently, they are also going to release more nerfs with any future prime accesses.

3 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

You're silly if you think Kuva Seer is mastery fodder. It's more or less a corrosive variant of the Tombfinger Kitgun if you built for more status chance, with a much smaller ammo max. I'd rather have corrosive explosions rather than radiation, and I could slap on a mutation in the exilus slot to make the ammo problem a non-issue. This doesn't even cover how much stronger the gun gets with the Lich element bonus.

I personally didn't enjoy it. Maybe it can be powerful, but I don't like the feel of it. I just don't like using the weapon, it's my personal preference. If I'm going for min-maxing, there are other powerful alternatives too, and ones that I find more fun to play with. And as another person above mentioned, it's not a weapon for doing tons of corrosive procs. Not even mentioning the atrocious zoom.

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il y a 5 minutes, Piterros990 a dit :

Well, should I consider myself new with 700+ hours on record? And I'm gonna admit I've been kinda tryharding towards mastery, hence I'm a completionist.

Yes, 700h isn't much in Warframe. And Mastery Rank leveling is the easiest part of the game. (imho)

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16 minutes ago, Piterros990 said:

Disposition isn't the thing here, I know about it. I'm not 100% certain in terms of that but I've seen a video mentioning it, that they are putting up a schedule for nerfing rivens. Ivara Prime Access will come with a first nerf towards prime weapons (specifically mentioned, for example, quoting "A riven for Soma that gives +100% damage will give +85% on Soma Prime"). Appearently, they are also going to release more nerfs with any future prime accesses.

I believe this was discussed in an old dev workshop a little while ago. Since Kuva weapons now have a different disposition to the base version, DE is planning on pushing this to all of the other weapons and their variants. It's not so much a nerf as it is DE announcing that rivens will now have different dispositions per weapon in the same family, like the Soma and Soma Prime you mentioned.

EDIT:
Found the workshop post in question.

On 2019-11-07 at 9:14 AM, [DE]Connor said:

[...]

Going forward, weapon dispositions will be tuned per weapon, instead of per weapon family. For instance, this means a Kohm Riven will have a disposition of 1.4 on a regular Kohm, but only a disposition of 1 when applied to a Kuva Kohm. 

[...]

We have always balanced dispositions based on the most powerful variation of the weapon in its respective family - now that this is no longer necessary, expect to see us increasing the power level on many lesser variations of weapons in our next set of disposition changes, scheduled for December. These increases will not be huge, as we don’t intend to make any base variants explicitly better than their upgraded counterparts, but it will offer a more appropriate boost that isn’t influenced by a more powerful weapon that you may not own yet.

 

 

Edited by Pizzarugi

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15 hours ago, dwqrf said:

Yes, 700h isn't much in Warframe. And Mastery Rank leveling is the easiest part of the game. (imho)

Well that depends, honestly, since some weapons and warframes require much more dedication than some other parts of the game. Well, I guess I've only played since July, this year, so it probably isn't much comparing to some vets with several years on account.

 

15 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

I believe this was discussed in an old dev workshop a little while ago. Since Kuva weapons now have a different disposition to the base version, DE is planning on pushing this to all of the other weapons and their variants. It's not so much a nerf as it is DE announcing that rivens will now have different dispositions per weapon in the same family, like the Soma and Soma Prime you mentioned.

EDIT:
Found the workshop post in question.

 

 

Hm. Well, I see where they are getting it from. But I don't see the point in doing that. I understand how may devs feel about it - but I think that, as Warframe is losing players, I think they should do something to get them more interested in sticking to it. And so, if they actually nerf dispo for prime weapons, people who bought their god-rolls for several thousands of plat are most likely going to be annoyed and may quit. Also it will do severe damage to the market, disappointing those, who spent tons of kuva rolling their riven, just to see the prices drop.

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8 minutes ago, Piterros990 said:

Hm. Well, I see where they are getting it from. But I don't see the point in doing that. I understand how may devs feel about it - but I think that, as Warframe is losing players, I think they should do something to get them more interested in sticking to it. And so, if they actually nerf dispo for prime weapons, people who bought their god-rolls for several thousands of plat are most likely going to be annoyed and may quit. Also it will do severe damage to the market, disappointing those, who spent tons of kuva rolling their riven, just to see the prices drop.

They didn't mention nerfing the stats of rivens for prime weapons. They mentioned buffing riven stats for base variants to make them a little more desirable.

Also, bear in mind the entire point of rivens was to buff unpopular weapons. Someone's Dual Keres will outperform my Prisma Dual Cleavers, for example, because of a riven disposition difference (5/5 vs 3/5), same with their Dragon Nikana versus my Nikana Prime. Disposition nerfs are merely a popularity shift, because the weapons got more popular over others. Expect this to happen constantly, your favorite riven getting buffed and nerfed based on that shifting.

My advice if you're that worried about it: Stick to using rivens for weapons that are average, neither bad nor good. Chances are those will be the most stable in regards to disposition shifts.

Edited by Pizzarugi

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