Concerns about Railjack costs and future progress

[Domaik]

To make this as simple as possible: railjack is very expensive to build. I'm not saying that this is bad.

It's amazing to build a massive space ship and see the progress bit by bit, I love it and it's a very nice addition to the game.

The problem is the cost. I know building a big spaceship is expensive and it should be.

But...over 60% of the people in my clan CANNOT afford it, they can't even begin to think of how much it takes to build one.

This has raised a lot of concern in our clan because many players now cannot progress this quest and are afraid that they won't be able to progress in any railjack related content because they do not have a railjack of their own.

So I'm here trying to represent the voices of all those players unable to build a railjack but who know someone that can.

PLEASE when you make railjack content PLEASE take them into account and allow progress and fun for people WITHOUT  railjack as long as they ride with someone who has one. Allow the players who don't have it and can't dream of having one for a very long time to be able to progress the game when railjack content is introduced.

 

Surely you will introduce lore-heavy quests and new tilesets and stories to explore but please DO NOT limit them to having finished a railjack because it's very impossible for many players to do so. Simply allow them to ride a clan mate's or a friend's spaceship and have fun together being able to progress.

 

Thank you for reading, I hope you take this into mind when introducing new content for railjack.

[Drachnyn]

As someone very out of touch with how much those build requirements mean for a new player (when building I didnt even look at them apart from the new resources and the argon), is it just the credits or are the normal resources also a big deal?

[Miyabi-sama]

No offence, but your clan is a kindergarden?

Yes it is expensive.

Yes it is long term goal.

No, it is an essential time gate.

No, it shouldn't be built at day 1 after update.

P.s. 6 millions credits hurts, but ain't Index refreshing?

[Aldain]

2 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

is it just the credits or are the normal resources also a big deal?

Mostly the credit cost imo.

27k alloy plate is the highest cost of normal mats, 30 orokin cells and 15 argon are the other two outliiers.

I had 27k Alloy by the time I reached Sedna as a newbie, I defy anyone to get 6 million credits without using the Index or Profit-Taker, credit gain in most missions are just laughably small.

[DrivaMain]

It only took me around 1-2 hours of gathering all of the resources (using resource booster from baro) and now I have enough to construct the entire ship. Credits? 24 total rounds of Index or Profit Taker will get you covered (5 minutes per round will net you 250k credits). I am starting to assume that your 60% of clannies are new players and you should tell them to progress through the star chart first and finish the main questline before even touching Railjack content.
 

 

Sorry to break it to you, but [DE]Steve the game director states that Railjack will be the future of warframe. According to the Rising Tide quest the upcoming main quest The New War will likely require you to own a railjack as a prequisite.

[Fellas92]

A lot of people can't buy luxury things in life, for example I cannot afford a ferrari... Does this mean that the vendors should consider me and drop the price ? No.
DE is finally adding stuff where we need to actually invest something more than just 5 ferrite, I'm happy with it, and if there is something I cannot afford, I will go grind for it. 

Edited November 25, 2019 by Fellas92

[Loza03]

Most likely, building the ship itself will be the most expensive part, at least in one go.

Building weapons for it will almost certainly be cheaper, and it will likely be easier to gather these resources. Bear in mind these resources were said to be 'previews' of Railjack resources - they may well get Railjack acquisition methods once the full thing launches.

 

If I had to guess, DE is probably aiming to make the acquisition itself a soft barrier. Something that isn't likely to be done without either investigation into the game for quick acquisition, or from chipping away at it over a long duration. Either way, you'll get more experience in the game by getting a Railjack. Not much, but enough that when combined with the requirement of the Second Dream, you will almost certainly be well-travelled enough in all the elements of Warframe that you can juggle them successfully in Railjack proper.

Bear in mind Railjack is a permanent addition - so as well as this initial purely prep time part which is just for long-time players, Empyrean will be experienced by new players. DE's newfound interest in the new player experience seems to have motivated themselves to make getting a Railjack be a new player experience thing in and of itself, rather than the old approach of just dropping people into the deep end. 

[Xaero]

We'll never get to endgame at this rate. Most likely Railjack is going to be a prerequisite for Tau-related stuff. If a player can't build Railjack, this player is most likely not ready for the upcoming content.

Anyways, considering Railjack is available right after The Second Dream, most likely DE wanted to set a real long-term goal.

[Drachnyn]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb Xaero:

We'll never get to endgame at this rate. Most likely Railjack is going to be a prerequisite for Tau-related stuff. If a player can't build Railjack, this player is most likely not ready for the upcoming content.

Anyways, considering Railjack is available right after The Second Dream, most likely DE wanted to set a real long-term goal.

What OP is talking about doesnt have anything to do with any form of "endgame". It's about letting newer and more casual players experience the quests and new tilesets when on somebody else's railjack.

[(NSW)Belaptir]

1 minute ago, Drachnyn said:

What OP is talking about doesnt have anything to do with any form of "endgame". It's about letting newer and more casual players experience the quests and new tilesets when on somebody else's railjack.

When you play an MMORPG like WOW or FFXIV, do you expect a level 5 player have access to all the game's content? This is exactly the same. It's fine if someone can't access to the railjack the moment it's launched, because they have to work for it. What people is asking in these continuous posts is for everything to be accessible to people of MR0, and honestly, I'd stop playing the game if that would be the case. I want that the time I dedicate to the game pays off somehow.

[DarthIronclad]

Farming the index is not that bad or hard either...go with Mesa or Umbra with a sniper if you want to be the DPS of the team,or a rhino if you are just focusing on helping the team to score

[Tsukinoki]

Just now, Drachnyn said:

What OP is talking about doesnt have anything to do with any form of "endgame". It's about letting newer and more casual players experience the quests and new tilesets when on somebody else's railjack.

So tell me:
If you play another MMO do you think that someone should be able to take you to mid-to-late game raids and missions the moment that you start playing the game?

Its a good thing to have some barrier in the way.
For instance the lich system is available way too early...MR5 when the lowest MR weapon available is 13, and MR5s don't have anything to handle the high level grineer mobs tossed at them...and quite a few lower MR players are suffering from a level 5 lich that they can't get rid of and barely anyone wants to help them.

Honestly systems like the lich system or railjack should have some form of barrier that goes "You must be this tall to ride" so that the participants can at least be assured to be able to contribute in some manner.

[Xaero]

12 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

What OP is talking about doesnt have anything to do with any form of "endgame". It's about letting newer and more casual players experience the quests and new tilesets when on somebody else's railjack.

That just won't be possible. New tilesets like Lua, Kuva Fortress (and Tau in future) come with the quests.

[Zelmen]

51 minutes ago, Domaik said:

over 60% of the people in my clan CANNOT afford it

This is only the build phase. They rest of the content not going to hit until around mid-late December the earliest. You have more than enough time to work on this.

At the same time, not everything should be handed to players. It not out of place to aim what will be late game content to focus on late game players. If you have issues with credits and resources then you are not there yet. Run index, do some farm groups, and you will get there. They just had a 3 day resource booster from void trader over the weekend. If you didn't take advantage of it for a non-plat base price. That is your own fault. It's almost like DE knew resources might be needed...

[DarthIronclad]

Keep in mind newer players also likely won't know how to mod their weapons right too,on top of being low MR and not having access to many good weapons...so taking on liches and maybe even doing the index for the credits to do railjack is out of the question until they learn how to mod and get to at least MR13+ to get a decent weapon that can do well in lich killing and index like the Rubico Prime...

[Drachnyn]

vor 35 Minuten schrieb (NSW)Belaptir:

When you play an MMORPG like WOW or FFXIV, do you expect a level 5 player have access to all the game's content? This is exactly the same. It's fine if someone can't access to the railjack the moment it's launched, because they have to work for it. What people is asking in these continuous posts is for everything to be accessible to people of MR0, and honestly, I'd stop playing the game if that would be the case. I want that the time I dedicate to the game pays off somehow.

 

vor 31 Minuten schrieb Tsukinoki:

So tell me:
If you play another MMO do you think that someone should be able to take you to mid-to-late game raids and missions the moment that you start playing the game?

Its a good thing to have some barrier in the way.
For instance the lich system is available way too early...MR5 when the lowest MR weapon available is 13, and MR5s don't have anything to handle the high level grineer mobs tossed at them...and quite a few lower MR players are suffering from a level 5 lich that they can't get rid of and barely anyone wants to help them.

Honestly systems like the lich system or railjack should have some form of barrier that goes "You must be this tall to ride" so that the participants can at least be assured to be able to contribute in some manner.

Classic MMOs work completely different. We dont have a traditional leveling system in warframe. And if you actually look at FF14, there is a exp boost available for people to catch up if they start the game now. FF14 also doesnt lock you out of the mainquests because you didnt fish enouch or gathered enough tomestones of being lit. Warframe rarely reduces old grinds. Again this is not about reducing the grind to get your own railjack, this is about letting people experience the quests tied to it when their friend who have all of it are willing to help them. 

 

vor 32 Minuten schrieb Xaero:

That just won't be possible. New tilesets like Lua, Kuva Fortress (and Tau in future) come with the quests.

Why wouldnt it be possible. Naturally you'd need to have done chimera to progress further into new war but at that point what OP wants and i agree there is to make new war possible to complete when the host, who has a railjack, is doing it aswell.

[(NSW)Nadlug]

1 hour ago, Aldain said:

Mostly the credit cost imo.

27k alloy plate is the highest cost of normal mats, 30 orokin cells and 15 argon are the other two outliiers.

I had 27k Alloy by the time I reached Sedna as a newbie, I defy anyone to get 6 million credits without using the Index or Profit-Taker, credit gain in most missions are just laughably small.

Just that? Seriously that's it and people are complaining? I look at the 30k cryotic to build the Siber and go oof. Sure the 6 million credits will put a significant dent in my wallet but that is just a handful of rounds in the index.

I know everyone wants to see the flashy new stuff first but there are a series of steps new tenno must take between crawling and learning how to fly a multi-role warship.

[Xaero]

22 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

Why wouldnt it be possible. Naturally you'd need to have done chimera to progress further into new war but at that point what OP wants and i agree there is to make new war possible to complete when the host, who has a railjack, is doing it aswell.

How many main story quests can you complete in a squad?

[Drachnyn]

Gerade eben schrieb Xaero:

How many main story quests can you complete in a squad?

Sadly not a lot. That doesnt have to be this way though.

[(NSW)Belaptir]

20 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

Classic MMOs work completely different. We dont have a traditional leveling system in warframe. And if you actually look at FF14, there is a exp boost available for people to catch up if they start the game now. FF14 also doesnt lock you out of the mainquests because you didnt fish enouch or gathered enough tomestones of being lit. Warframe rarely reduces old grinds. Again this is not about reducing the grind to get your own railjack, this is about letting people experience the quests tied to it when their friend who have all of it are willing to help them. 

Well, first things first. In  FF14 there's a boost available that takes you to the beginning of the last expansion. You still need to grind to open the access to the high end raids (namely you need an iLevel of X to access certain dungeons or raids). And this is exactly the same. Content should be locked behind some barriers that allow progression. Otherwise, progression would stop making sense at all. What's even the point of making people play to get access to certain things when they could just let someone do it for them? Why don't we then open the war within to MR0 players so they can do it just the moment they open the game and can start doing eidolons within 2 hours of starting their account? Also, we should reduce the requirements to craft an amp to something like 10 creds and 1 cetus wisp, so these guys could already go there and do it. Let's remove all kind of progression of the game, what could possibly go wrong?

[Drachnyn]

vor 1 Minute schrieb (NSW)Belaptir:

Well, first things first. In  FF14 there's a boost available that takes you to the beginning of the last expansion. You still need to grind to open the access to the high end raids (namely you need an iLevel of X to access certain dungeons or raids). And this is exactly the same. Content should be locked behind some barriers that allow progression. Otherwise, progression would stop making sense at all. What's even the point of making people play to get access to certain things when they could just let someone do it for them? Why don't we then open the war within to MR0 players so they can do it just the moment they open the game and can start doing eidolons within 2 hours of starting their account? Also, we should reduce the requirements to craft an amp to something like 10 creds and 1 cetus wisp, so these guys could already go there and do it. Let's remove all kind of progression of the game, what could possibly go wrong?

You are talking about high end raids, OP isnt. This thread isnt about the railjack equivalent of raids or eidolons, it's about those main story quests. How I understood the OP was that if someone has completed chimera, they should be able to do new war on someone else's railjack if they get taken along for the ride and I agree with that. This has nothing to do with the fabled endgame everyone dreams about but has no cohesive idea what it should be.

[(NSW)Belaptir]

2 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

You are talking about high end raids, OP isnt. This thread isnt about the railjack equivalent of raids or eidolons, it's about those main story quests. How I understood the OP was that if someone has completed chimera, they should be able to do new war on someone else's railjack if they get taken along for the ride and I agree with that. This has nothing to do with the fabled endgame everyone dreams about but has no cohesive idea what it should be.

Uh... No I'm not. Most of the story dungeons require a level or an iLevel to be accessible, which gives you sense of progression. Then you have all the crafting jobs in FFXIV that are also gated by levels. Everything is gated in games because it gives you a sense of progression in general, and like this, Railjack should be to. Tell me, why don't we open the war within to the MR0 players with a quest that can be done in the first 2 hours? After all, eidolons are not endgame, why not open them to any player? And we should also make it so rubico prime is a weapon that you can buy from the market, forma'd and potato'd and with a godroll riven included, so everyone can do eidolons from the first moment.

The reason why content is gated behind barriers (in this case a resource barrier) is because it gives the players a goal.

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

Skill base wise Warframe doesn't have a good way for players to progress. It's not like you can complete the star chart all the way to Pluto and be skill enough to solo a terayists. The only thing the star chart teaches new players is blow things up as fast as you can, as hard as you can.

[Drachnyn]

vor 1 Minute schrieb (NSW)Belaptir:

Railjack should be to. Tell me, why don't we open the war within to the MR0 players with a quest that can be done in the first 2 hours? After all, eidolons are not endgame, why not open them to any player? And we should also make it so rubico prime is a weapon that you can buy from the market, forma'd and potato'd and with a godroll riven included, so everyone can do eidolons from the first moment.

This isnt what OP is asking for at all. Naturally you'd have to complete the quests up to chimera and very likely ropalolyst to even start new war. What this thread is asking is that casual and newer players (in my eyes people who have just done sacrifice are still new players) can experience those quests on board of someone else's railjack if they are doing the quests. Steve already told us that you get some progression with railjack gear like new systems if you come along with someone else but without having your own railjack. Naturally people would still want to have their very own railjack so they arent dependant on their friends.

[(NSW)Belaptir]

1 minute ago, Drachnyn said:

This isnt what OP is asking for at all. Naturally you'd have to complete the quests up to chimera and very likely ropalolyst to even start new war. What this thread is asking is that casual and newer players (in my eyes people who have just done sacrifice are still new players) can experience those quests on board of someone else's railjack if they are doing the quests. Steve already told us that you get some progression with railjack gear like new systems if you come along with someone else but without having your own railjack. Naturally people would still want to have their very own railjack so they arent dependant on their friends.

If I can play railjack from the beginning in other people's ship, why should I even build mine? Content is gated for a good reason: there must be some way of seeing that you are progressing in the game. Not everything must be accessible to someone who just started to play. There is absolutely no game where things are like this. I still don't understand why people is complaining about railjack requirements in general, when I started the game I wanted to do eidolons but I couldn't. Life works like this, you need to work your way to enjoy stuff, so grow up and accept it.