Landers (not Orbit. sry) as fighters to use in railjack missions

[Oreades]

2 minutes ago, Troposphere6 said:

It's not part of the railjack propulsion unit?

I guess it could be but I don't recall it being there before I started working on the 2nd Nacelle

[Doraz_]

But just to be clear, Lander could thoretically be used in the way i described them right?

 

The hatch present in the Orbiter is now meaningless, but the only big case against it would be archwings' role being affected negatively by landers' implementation in railjack missions.

 

Expecially if a modular archwing is supposed to be one of the focuses of the update.

 

In my head canon DE is secretlt developing Landers with weapons and abilities instead of another archwing (oof xD) ... let me dream a bit ... i guess my best bet is to get or make a lander skin of landers for Freespace 2 or similar game.

 

 

[EmberStar]

7 minutes ago, Oreades said:

I will give you it would be supremely awkward to swap out things like Nacelles one at a time. 

I think this is it, assuming I've got the link correct.  Devstream #132, at about the 60 minutme mark.

And Rebecca did specifically say they were "skins concept art."

Edited November 25, 2019 by EmberStar

[Cubewano]

1 hour ago, Doraz_ said:

First thing, thank u for the update, so exited to see all of this finally coming out ... at least, tiny pieces of it at a time that it is xD

But, first impressions, and hopefully it's not too weird ...

 

i really loved the look of the ship ... but only with only the fuselage.

I've added 3 more parts now and it's big, nice to look at, interesting design ... but doesn't make me go "ah that's perfect." It actually feels TOO big, as in, for moving around and shooting, being that big i assume is a liability as you are easier to be shot at, expecially at so close ranfe like at tennocon

 

So i thought that a series of smaller ships acting as fighters detatching from the railjack would be fitting, for the tennos to move around. I know ... that is what the archwings are supposed to be, but again the problem remains, you are going in deep space with your very own skin for pretection 😕

You can be brave (in both cases, big railjack or archwing) ... me, i'd like a different thing...

 

So ... "Can't we use the orbiters themselves in fights?" To have our own customizable ship that we had for years, suddently having railjack like controls coming out from the platform where we start the missions, and fly around with it.

The orbiters would have only frontal guns, a primary and a secondary fire (rifle and missiles?), homing around reticle would be appropriate.

 

i have spotted a "hatch" kind of component in the new orbiter design, and i hope that it's not an accident, as it cluld be used to go in and out the orbiter to space with the archwing.

okay first you're talking about the liset, the small ship we have in loading screens. the orbiter is a massive storage freighter that is probably a great deal larger than even the railjacks we are building, which is why we need ordis to maintain and operate it since it's far too large for any individual to. our liset docks into it, as does all our other drop ships we can safely assume. 

as for using the lisets as fighters, so far as i'm aware they are meant to be rather light weight stealth drop ships, so odds are they wouldn't hold up well under actual gun fire since they are designed specifically with the idea of avoiding conflict. sure they could probably be given combat applications all the same, but why would we when we have tools for those jobs already that are tailored and more efficient for said tasks?  

if your main issue is just the look our the current railjack, i'll find the images later, but de did show there would be multiple railjack models just like liset skins eventually in the future. surely if the current model doesn't fit the aesthetic you want, perhaps one of them will? making them much smaller probably won't occurr, but that area really is archwing territory and I don't see DE trying to make more reasons to avoid those tools given their current efforts to reinvigorate that area of play. 

Edited November 25, 2019 by Cubewano

[Oreades]

4 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

I think this is it, assuming I've got the link correct.  Devstream #132, at about the 60 minutme mark.

And Rebecca did specifically say they were "skins concept art."

Eh if we don't have to farm a billion parts to build/retrofit the railjack, I'm strangely OK with that I'd just still be a bit surrpised given all the needless grind elements they've been slathering into the game recently.

[Doraz_]

39 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

Well, they've shown concept art of several completely different looks for the railjack.  Most of the ones I remember were so divergent, they wouldn't really work as modular components.  So far though, cosmetics are rarely something we can farm for.  Unless they want to start adding railjack variants that actually have different gameplay mechanics somehow (like different stats) then the precedent is that cosmetics are a premium item that we'll probably have to pay for.

Yes, they DO look very different, but maybe with uniform colors like we do with fashion-frame it will look at least "fine".

 

I'm assuming there would be a skin changing ALL parts of the railjack, no mixing between parts of different skins.

[Doraz_]

6 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

I don't see DE trying to make more reasons to avoid those tools given their current efforts to reinvigorate that area of

That sounds exactly like DE (... at least for the year-ish i really got involved with the game) 😄

 

Thanks for the detailed answer tenno, and sorry for the Orbiter/Lander confusion.

[Cubewano]

3 minutes ago, Doraz_ said:

That sounds exactly like DE (... at least for the year-ish i really got involved with the game) 😄

 

Thanks for the detailed answer tenno, and sorry for the Orbiter/Lander confusion.

no problemo

also scroll life halfway down the list here and you can see the other railjack models that'll probably come in the future as side options (there may be more, there may be less, concepting in action~) 

[Loza03]

26 minutes ago, Troposphere6 said:

Railjacks are at least 100 meters long I measured mine though I haven't gotten the tail so I expect it'll be longer. They are absolutely huge I'd guess there between 50-75 meters across as well so yeah death comes to the sol system especially with that gun they showed off in the tennocon show case and the adds. The thing to remember is the railjacks are capital ship killers we literally have nothing like them.

The full thing is about 200 metres long.

The waypoint is perched just on the tip of the tail. I'm on its nose. Map is for scale to the drydock plus the little terminal I built to make sure I had enough space.

So yeah that's pretty big.

[(NSW)Edcaous]

That would actually be a really interesting idea, however, I'm not sure how'd that work.

[Troposphere6]

1 minute ago, Loza03 said:

The full thing is about 200 metres long.

The waypoint is perched just on the tip of the tail. I'm on its nose. Map is for scale to the drydock plus the little terminal I built to make sure I had enough space.

So yeah that's pretty big.

Wow so the tail section doubles it's length I didn't see that coming I've got to admit.  

[Loza03]

44 minutes ago, Troposphere6 said:

Wow so the tail section doubles it's length I didn't see that coming I've got to admit.  

That's the tail on the Fuselage, I'm pretty sure. Don't think I even had the engine when I took that pic. But, yes, since it's likely that we can't actually get into the tail itself, it is pretty bloody massive isn't it.

 

Edit: So, just got the tail. It adds an extra 25 metres or so. That's just extra, Cy...

Edited November 25, 2019 by Loza03
A long boye.

[Miser_able]

Orbiters are even bigger than railjacks. You're probably thinking of landing crafts. Which are exactly that, for landing. They are stealth vehicles, most likely unarmed and lightly armored (since vor oneshots one during the tutorial.) 

[Raqiya]

I'm not sending my Livingroom into battle xD

[Lakais]

I am all for this concept. Though to be more accurate, I would like to see the Lander rather then the Orbiter implemented as a one-man version of the Railjack. It's an honest mistake to confuse the Lander we see in our loading screens for the Orbiter that houses all our stuff. 

Archwings are souped up jetpacks in space and while they are surprisingly lethal and tanky, they are ultimately very short range and likely do not have punch travel capability with the rails or Void-masking. Them being more specialized for interdiction and boarding actions. Useful in large ship to ship combat mainly because they are too small by the capital ship weaponry to effectively engage in knife-fight close range. But AW's would need some other, larger ships to first get them that close. 

A pilotable Lander, however, gives players the option to further Star Citizen their experience by sacrificing the potential power and versatility of a Railjack for more specialized Lander craft that is still more capable then the archwing in those large ship battles. Something for those solo players who don't really like large "multi-crew ship" concept and would much prefer a long-range stealth fighter concept. 

There is also a precedent for our Landers to come armed. The Schimitar is a stealth "bomber" of sorts with it's special ability being a bombing run. It wouldn't be that bloody hard to strap two or more AW weapons onto a lander and they'd work just as good, if not better. Logically speaking but this is Warframe we are talking about so... eh. 

And since we already have different versions of landers, those are already the basis for different capabilities. Some, like the Schimitar being more offense oriented while the Xiphos is built to tank damage with powerful shields and boosting abilities and the Lisette's thing being stealth and Mantis a sort of agile speedster. 

So technically there is no reason to not have our landers be one-man long-range recon and combat ships. While AW's are capable, they are limited by operational range and firepower and while Railjacks can apparently do damn near everything, they are large, easy to spot and require a crew (even if AI). A middle-ground option is always welcome. 

Edited November 25, 2019 by Lakais

[Troposphere6]

9 minutes ago, Lakais said:

So technically there is no reason to not have our landers be one-man long-range recon and combat ships. While AW's are capable, they are limited by operational range and firepower and while Railjacks can apparently do damn near everything, they are large, easy to spot and require a crew (even if AI). A middle-ground option is always welcome. 

Railjacks have voidcloaks so they can also do stealth

[BDMblue]

Any one else wonder if the rail guns are going to be worth using?

i mean if they have fixed power they’ll need to output 5000-25000 damage/sec to keep up with modded archguns. That’s just today what about later as power grows.

[Troposphere6]

11 minutes ago, BDMblue said:

Any one else wonder if the rail guns are going to be worth using?

i mean if they have fixed power they’ll need to output 5000-25000 damage/sec to keep up with modded archguns. That’s just today what about later as power grows.

Are you asking if the weapons on the railjack are going to be better than archwing weapons? I would imagine that would be the case since it would be pretty pointless to have them at all.

[BDMblue]

4 minutes ago, Troposphere6 said:

Are you asking if the weapons on the railjack are going to be better than archwing weapons? I would imagine that would be the case since it would be pretty pointless to have them at all.

I’m hoping so, but they don’t scale like archguns so.... ya I’m guessing they going to be pointless 🤪

[Troposphere6]

3 minutes ago, BDMblue said:

I’m hoping so, but they don’t scale like archguns so.... ya I’m guessing they going to be pointless 🤪

I think there going to pack more of a punch than archguns and they are upgradable as far as I'm aware from what was said during the Dev streams.

[Doraz_]

24 minutes ago, Lakais said:

I am all for this concept. Though to be more accurate, I would like to see the Lander rather then the Orbiter implemented as a one-man version of the Railjack. It's an honest mistake to confuse the Lander we see in our loading screens for the Orbiter that houses all our stuff. 

Archwings are souped up jetpacks in space and while they are surprisingly lethal and tanky, they are ultimately very short range and likely do not have punch travel capability with the rails or Void-masking. Them being more specialized for interdiction and boarding actions. Useful in large ship to ship combat mainly because they are too small by the capital ship weaponry to effectively engage in knife-fight close range. But AW's would need some other, larger ships to first get them that close. 

A pilotable Lander, however, gives players the option to further Star Citizen their experience by sacrificing the potential power and versatility of a Railjack for more specialized Lander craft that is still more capable then the archwing in those large ship battles. Something for those solo players who don't really like large "multi-crew ship" concept and would much prefer a long-range stealth fighter concept. 

There is also a precedent for our Landers to come armed. The Schimitar is a stealth "bomber" of sorts with it's special ability being a bombing run. It wouldn't be that bloody hard to strap two or more AW weapons onto a lander and they'd work just as good, if not better. Logically speaking but this is Warframe we are talking about so... eh. 

And since we already have different versions of landers, those are already the basis for different capabilities. Some, like the Schimitar being more offense oriented while the Xiphos is built to tank damage with powerful shields and boosting abilities and the Lisette's thing being stealth and Mantis a sort of agile speedster. 

So technically there is no reason to not have our landers be one-man long-range recon and combat ships. While AW's are capable, they are limited by operational range and firepower and while Railjacks can apparently do damn near everything, they are large, easy to spot and require a crew (even if AI). A middle-ground option is always welcome. 

So many good points and a nice read, thank you.

 

In my eyes, if this had to be implemented responsably and realistically it would need:

-Flight controls similar to boardable ships. Only the cockpit would need to be created and accessible to us, so it's reasonable to create different versions for each lander. An hatch lets you go outside with the archwing.

If you return to the Railjack, or board the enemy ship, and go outside, the ship will have auto-pilot to the hatch. No reason to make us go get it where the lander can come to us as usual.

-in the Arsenal, a new "Lander" section would be created, allowing you to change it on the fly instead of using another menu. Weapons should be few, satisfying, identifiable and with a specific role and function such as (1) auto fast-firing hitscan rifle for spraying, (2) cluster energy shotgun for the less accurate tennos (3) semi-auto charged railgun-like beam (4) grattler like bombs exclusively close range (5) homing slow missiles that require lock (6) fast dumbfire missiles fired in high quantity. You can equip 2 at a time, swappable in the arsenal.

Few weapons but good. Similarly abilities should be 1 for each ship, focusing on the type of lander it is supposed to be, ideas are (Liset) an hack AOE as shown in the Devstream, (Mantis) Repairs damage to it and close friendly ships, (Scimitar) Rocket with a a massive damaging explosion and (Xiphos) Spawns duration based Itzal-like drones that fire Corpus-Like Projecriles or Corpus-Like beams to close ships, intercepting enemy fire.

I have no idea how much of a hassle it would be to create mods for Landers and lander weapons, maybe they can be upgraded with the railjack's new system. In any case, that would add some always welcome customization and new mods to go farm ... mods that we are actually going to use from the update going forward 🙂

 

I have edited the title (now says Lander) to avoid causing further confusion.

[EmberStar]

1 hour ago, Oreades said:

I guess it could be but I don't recall it being there before I started working on the 2nd Nacelle

If it matters, I just checked as I started repairs on the tail section.  It only adds a single "turbine" ring and a very short spar to the aft of the ship.  About 20 meters beyond the existing structure.  (Most of the tail overlaps.)  The whole ship is about 225 meters long, counting the tail.  I'll try to post pictures of the difference later.

 

[TARINunit9]

2 hours ago, Doraz_ said:

 The orbiters would have only frontal guns, a primary and a secondary fire (rifle and missiles?), homing around reticle would be appropriate.

While I do agree that the landing craft are criminally underutilised (ten bucks or a year of grinding for a new loading screen), the devs have decided that canonically, landing craft are completely unarmed. So as much as I would love another game that feels like Star Wars: Starfighter, we have archwing

I also disagree that Blink should have remained spammable. Maybe leave it Itzal exclusive, but it needed a cooldown. Maybe 3 seconds is too long, but it needed the nerf. Imagine if Nova's wormhole cost only 10 energy and had instant cast time, it would be obscenely broken. That was Blink, and it was obscenely overpowered

[Lakais]

On 2019-11-25 at 11:53 PM, Troposphere6 said:

Railjacks have voidcloaks so they can also do stealth

They have the option for it. landers have that as a built-in base functionality. On Railjacks you're going to have to turn off other functions for that to work. And the main point is still that some people (me included) are not into large, multi-crew ships. The designs don't really "speak to me". What exactly would we lose by having pilotable landers for solo missions? 

[Doraz_]

On 2019-11-27 at 7:08 AM, Lakais said:

They have the option for it. landers have that as a built-in base functionality. On Railjacks you're going to have to turn off other functions for that to work. And the main point is still that some people (me included) are not into large, multi-crew ships. The designs don't really "speak to me". What exactly would we lose by having pilotable landers for solo missions? 

My thoughts exactly 😄, but i assume the standard Railjack experience isn't ready yet and that being quite a difficult feat (WF, i assume again, is built on non-standard proprietary software, having a mix of server-side and p2p) and adding that feature will take time and it's solved by using recruit chat. i'm a mostly solo tenno myself, that's why i took time to suggest the feature.