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Archwing controls feel better, BUT..

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Archwing controls feel better overall when it's not your intention to go fast. However, when you do want to go fast, the new system is very limiting because of the 2 second archwing blink cooldown and a lack of movement mods for archwing. Previously, the only maximum speed was the speed at which the game took your inputs, now the max speed is 100m/2s for blink and about 100m/s for flight. This is around 150 m/s. Sure that sounds fast, except for when you've got a 1.5km2 map and need to move around quickly, for example eidolon hunts (which many players actually do, believe it or not. we miss our raids and this is our only content related to them.) or speedrunning bounties which makes for a fun challenge. It also hurts regular gameplay because not everyone has hours to fly around on a motorized butterfly. This results in the only viable option being a speed warframe, and if I recall, being forced to use one specific warframe/archwing/weapon is exactly why we no longer have fast blinking or coptering or overpowered warframes like AFK ember and 5 energy cost banshee ult.

I realise that reverting a huge change like this isn't DE's style, so I'm suggesting adding more mobility mods for archwing (Warframes have an entire collection of mobility mods while archwing has 1 mod for it), and maybe a mod to reduce the blink cooldown by around 40-50%. This would help players cope with the change and show that you care about archwing, and that it's not a dead gamemode from 2014.

TL;DR Archwing is cooler now, but way too slow, and we want our mobility back in the form of the change being reverted OR new mods to help make up for the power gap.

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OK. Absolutely do not revert the changes, but a mod or two boosting archwing boost speed would be great. K-Drives have a bunch of mods that deal with mobility, why not archwing?

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There is a mod to make the Archwing faster. It would benefit from a bigger bonus and maybe a lower max cost 

 

latest?cb=20180610191638

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Just give all arch wings the following abilities:

1) receive loot

2) max out all equipped gear

3) teleport to exit

4) uninstall game

 

pls, it's just so HARD to play the game

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dunno what everyones on about. it's perfect. itzal got what it deserved, like the use percentage of catchmoon ( :V ).

movement is snappy so I can barrel roll on a dime, I feel like I'm using itzal when not using itzal, which I've never used itzal past leveling it cause of both a "screw the meta" grudge mentality and lack of efficiency to make blinking cost effective. Now it's literally the maximum efficient, it's always there. you're saving all of a few seconds using itzal unless you had one of those godly multi-blink spam itzals which honestly just felt ridiculous ...

Having used Odonata prime for the longest time this is all sorts of fine. and my two other friends? one loves nuking with Elytron and one finds the amesha too op to part with. so, we good. we all good.

Edited by Darkmega18
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I don't think I'm using archwing right. How do you barrel roll now? I used to fly around the place upside down and rotating, because it gives you hella vertigo and was fun, but I can't figure out how to do it now. Anyone got a tutorial vid or some tips for me since the update? That being said, it was never fair that Itzal was the only archwing that was worth using when the odonata and elytron both had such good utility, but lacked the blink.

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My only complain with the new blink is that not possible to bind to another key. Sometimes it feels weird, you press twice the shift but no blink.

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3 minutes ago, Demaneth said:

My only complain with the new blink is that not possible to bind to another key. Sometimes it feels weird, you press twice the shift but no blink.

Rebind the "Roll" key separately from the "Sprint" or "Sprint/roll" key. I bound it to Alt, so when flying forward I just need to hit alt to blink forward and don't need to let go of shift.

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I think an easy solution to the cooldown would be to make it possible to ignore cooldown with energy so you can meander along for free or become speed once again

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7 minutes ago, Uthael said:

My version of constructive feedback:

The movement speed you get while reeling in the hook should be the default Itzal speed.
Then, you could hold Sprint to go twice that speed.

1 could be a repulsive field with a duration. It would prevent you from colliding and would push away projectiles. Activating any other ability (including Blink) cancels it.

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This itzal blink nerf is for good. Simply because archwing is not great way to travel in open locations in warframe.
Archwings lack the good game design of being a nice mount and loosing in comparing to kdrives. Kdrive has great and entertainment design, modular system, good variety of different movement mods, tricky to use and well you can even do different flips on it which makes boring moving from point A to point B a true adventure and in addition calm pace allows you to enjoy the amazing landscape of warframe openworlds. On top of that you can even drive it on water while archwing drowns and teleports you and also kdrive gives you temporary protection from damage and status effects, while archwing has no such benefit. So after all the kdrive is the definition of how travel meant to be made, I would very appreciate if wings could be removed from open worlds completely because they do feel irrelevant to the open world game design.

tenor.gif

 

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Actually, my Archwing feels faster than it did before, despite the lack of afterburners. It's just we don't have that funny zoom animation that they took from Volt and gave to Gauss.

I think, though, they don't intend for Archwing to be too ridiculously fast, but more about mobility. We'll be getting the slingshot for Empyrean, after all.

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7 hours ago, tipsy_princess said:

This itzal blink nerf is for good. Simply because archwing is not great way to travel in open locations in warframe.
Archwings lack the good game design of being a nice mount and loosing in comparing to kdrives. Kdrive has great and entertainment design, modular system, good variety of different movement mods, tricky to use and well you can even do different flips on it which makes boring moving from point A to point B a true adventure and in addition calm pace allows you to enjoy the amazing landscape of warframe openworlds. On top of that you can even drive it on water while archwing drowns and teleports you and also kdrive gives you temporary protection from damage and status effects, while archwing has no such benefit. So after all the kdrive is the definition of how travel meant to be made, I would very appreciate if wings could be removed from open worlds completely because they do feel irrelevant to the open world game design.

tenor.gif

 

Now that where your wrong, archwings are MUCH faster than kdrive, kdrive are the irrelevant things. Pre update itzal could cross the whole map in just a few seconds, post update is still faster. 

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I like new things but the instant stop in movement with archwings removes the realistic feeling when flying, I would vote for DE to put back the slow down animation in form of a slide. Earlier before they removed it, I often slide too far and crashed into things but they could as an alternative putting back the slide but make a shorter braking distance.

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12 hours ago, tipsy_princess said:

This itzal blink nerf is for good. Simply because archwing is not great way to travel in open locations in warframe.
Archwings lack the good game design of being a nice mount and loosing in comparing to kdrives. Kdrive has great and entertainment design, modular system, good variety of different movement mods, tricky to use and well you can even do different flips on it which makes boring moving from point A to point B a true adventure and in addition calm pace allows you to enjoy the amazing landscape of warframe openworlds. On top of that you can even drive it on water while archwing drowns and teleports you and also kdrive gives you temporary protection from damage and status effects, while archwing has no such benefit. So after all the kdrive is the definition of how travel meant to be made, I would very appreciate if wings could be removed from open worlds completely because they do feel irrelevant to the open world game design.

 

Yeah and giving every Archwing blink just worsens the problem, making it more useful compared to k-drive through the bank. If some players feel the need to reduce their Archwing to pure transportation, then fine, let them.

The correct step to balance out Archwings though would have been to just remove Itzal blink, but we all know how players react to nerfs. Why all Archwings would have innate blink doesn't really make sense in any way, other than DE trying to dodge player fury. Or maybe just replace Itzal blink with an arcane delivery to your inbox, to shut up all Eidolon hunters (on a serious note, how about an Eidolon map tracking arcane?)

The correct way to balance out K-Drive vs Archwing would be enabling secondary weapon use on k-drive and disable Archwing weapon use in open worlds.

 

Edited by supernils

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@supernils

For the AWs:

For K-Drive vs Archwing - Been suggested before. I got convinced that no weapons on K-Drives is better. However, they should allow it in every mission we're able to use pizzas.

For Eidolon hunters, AWs became the bottleneck. There's more time spent flying than hacking lures. That's why all the flame from them. Shield and health bars are going down in an instant and there's nothing we can do about the invulnerability phases. And for the lure teleportation before it blows - I guess it would be better to make the lure explode the moment an eidolon dies.

I agree with the rest.

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14 hours ago, tipsy_princess said:

This itzal blink nerf is for good. Simply because archwing is not great way to travel in open locations in warframe.
Archwings lack the good game design of being a nice mount and loosing in comparing to kdrives. Kdrive has great and entertainment design, modular system, good variety of different movement mods, tricky to use and well you can even do different flips on it which makes boring moving from point A to point B a true adventure and in addition calm pace allows you to enjoy the amazing landscape of warframe openworlds. 

 

6 hours ago, notMaxAwa said:

Now that where your wrong, archwings are MUCH faster than kdrive, kdrive are the irrelevant things. Pre update itzal could cross the whole map in just a few seconds, post update is still faster. 

I think you're both right: K-Drives are significantly more interesting than Archwing for traversal, and by all rights likely should be our vehicle for fast travel, but aren't right now because Archwing's still a lot faster even without Blink spam. Because of this, I'd actually want to nerf Archwing's speed even further by removing Blink and Boost entirely, while instead buffing K-Drives significantly so that they exceed even current Boost Archwing levels of speed, provided they also received an appropriate control scheme rework to make navigating uneven terrain easier. Additionally, I'd like to rework Archwing combat in the Plains and Vallis so that enemies stop firing anti-air rockets that knock us immediately out of AW (and often one-shot us in the process): that way, we'd have our fast-travel mode still, but then every vehicle would be useful for its own purposes (Archwing would be good for air combat, K-Drives would be good for rapid traversal), and our fast-travel would be a lot more interesting, if only because it wouldn't involve us flying far above any interaction with the environment.

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K-Drives are awesome and very interesting indeed but Archwing is a lot faster and PRACTICAL....

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4 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

K-Drives are significantly more interesting than Archwing for traversal, and by all rights likely should be our vehicle for fast travel

A jetpack will always be more interesting than a skateboard.
Kids are building K-Drives from Corpus scraps! WE're mind-controling sophisticated war machines!
By no rights should K-Drives be superior to AWs. No matter the buffs to K-Drives and nerfs to Archwings.

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20 hours ago, Srovy said:

I think an easy solution to the cooldown would be to make it possible to ignore cooldown with energy so you can meander along for free or become speed once again

Part of the trouble was that the only obvious and most effective use for Archwing energy was to use Itzal/Blink.
There's no way to stop that being exactly all there is to it.
The upset about the change is indicative of how out-of-balance it was in function and favor.
If they keep that, they have to power creep 15 other archwing abilities to keep up.
Then all the archwing enemies so They can keep up..

Players were effectively punished for not having the Itzal.
I imagine they fully regret leaving it in as it was for so long,
but development didn't allow for that project at the time.

All archwing flight needed work, which is Why itzal was so critical.
We didn't get one change without the other, and that was very decent of them.

By the way, Ripline on that thing makes you stupid speedy in the open worlds.
I can't even utilize that much speed, and I do Not have on Hyperion thrusters.
There's a new rhythm to it, but I'll adjust.
Hopefully most, if not all of us do over the coming months.

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19 hours ago, tipsy_princess said:

Kdrive has great and entertainment design, modular system, good variety of different movement mods, tricky to use and well you can even do different flips on it which makes boring moving from point A to point B a true adventure and in addition calm pace allows you to enjoy the amazing landscape of warframe openworlds. On top of that you can even drive it on water while archwing drowns and teleports you and also kdrive gives you temporary protection from damage and status effects, while archwing has no such benefit.

First off, <3.
I totally share that sentiment.


Someone at DE was very much enjoying the archwing's earlier designs.
I feel for them and the players that wanted it that way.
...Kinda feel like they should be a thing.. Like Archwing Stance, effectively.

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I just got done using AW in a mission.  Today's Sortie Spy on Uranus.  I use a controller on PC and noticed the ability button while in AW mode doesn't work any more at all.  meaning the only AW powers I could use where the ones I had tied directly to the paddle buttons on my Elite controller.  This wasn't a good thing at all.  Other than that, the AW changes don't bother me.  

Just FIX the Ability Button for controllers or at least give us separate button mapping for AW like there is for all the other modes.  

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43 minutes ago, Uthael said:

A jetpack will always be more interesting than a skateboard.
Kids are building K-Drives from Corpus scraps! WE're mind-controling sophisticated war machines!
By no rights should K-Drives be superior to AWs. No matter the buffs to K-Drives and nerfs to Archwings.

That's simply not true, though, not just because hoverboards have been every kid's dream since 1989, but for the much more basic reason that traversal with K-Drives gives us far more to do than traversal in Archwing: with K-Drives, we actually have to navigate terrain and pay attention to our surroundings, and if the player wants they can pull off cool tricks along the way. With Archwing, you just fly in a straight line from A to B, with nothing in-between to keep the player interested. That's why a lot of players dislike the changes to Blink, because now the optimal strategy is to boost from point to point in open levels in Archwing, which is slower and more boring. As such, the game should change to make Archwing our vehicle for aerial combat, and K-Drives our fast travel option.

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21 hours ago, tipsy_princess said:

This itzal blink nerf is for good. Simply because archwing is not great way to travel in open locations in warframe.
Archwings lack the good game design of being a nice mount and loosing in comparing to kdrives. Kdrive has great and entertainment design, modular system, good variety of different movement mods, tricky to use and well you can even do different flips on it which makes boring moving from point A to point B a true adventure and in addition calm pace allows you to enjoy the amazing landscape of warframe openworlds. On top of that you can even drive it on water while archwing drowns and teleports you and also kdrive gives you temporary protection from damage and status effects, while archwing has no such benefit. So after all the kdrive is the definition of how travel meant to be made, I would very appreciate if wings could be removed from open worlds completely because they do feel irrelevant to the open world game design.

tenor.gif

 

"So after all the kdrive is the definition of how travel meant to be made, I would very appreciate if wings could be removed from open worlds completely because they do feel irrelevant to the open world game design."

I can sense the energy of a casual player, dont get me wrong, i am neither a hardcore veteran neither a casual player, i used to play alot but am not able to do that anymore but tell exactly your whole message to those that do quick Tridolon hunts and need efficiency and quick repositioning,they will laugh at you.

They may feel irrelevant to you, but everyone has their own way how to get around the Open World map and K-Drive is so boring to do so, i rather fly than using K-Drive, its like just playing as Gauss

Edited by xMarvin732
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