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supernils

Exalted weapons in weapon restricted sorties

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Idk, some players are probably glad they can just Mesa the f*** out of those missions.

I think it's boring enough having 1-button-kill-all frames in their regular missions, but when you actually try to enjoy some quality time with your unbeloved bow or shotgun - because you have to - in those sorties and then someone just cheese modes the whole thing... ok let me just tab out to desktop until they're done because that's the most reasonable thing to do. Game design wise somethings broken here

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Counterpoint - I hate shotguns/bows/secondaries, but I love my WF 4.  I'm so happy sorties don't cheat me out of using the abilities the warframes were given - gameplay is perfect!

Also - Mesa using 4 or Excal using 4 is somehow cheesier than Saryn 4'ing everything with a non-exalted ult how exactly?  Or are you really just saying "I want sorties that are weaponlocked to disable WF abilities altogether"?

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The jammers are inhibiting a weapon, not an ability. The last thing we need is MORE things that inhibit or are immune to warframe abilities.

I hate to be the first one to say it, but if you don't like PUGs, play with friends or play solo. None of the sortie content is hard enough to actually need more players; it just makes it easier/faster sometimes and often times makes it harder. There are innumerable players who will ruin your fun because they're having their own fun, and the problem extends far beyond Exalted Weapons.

If this was about a Saryn nuking entire rooms with spores, stealing all your kills, would you be having the same issue? If so, the issue isn't because of the use of Exalted Weapons. If a player couldn't cheese it on their meta Mesa, they'd just pick something else that will do the job as easily.

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Eh to be fair I personally feel that Peacemaker should be considered an ability and run off a stat stick because frankly that isn't a weapon it's a power. That said it isn't like it would change a whole lot with regards to the scenario, nothing would.

As others have pointed out it it wasn't one thing you took issue with it would be another. There will always be an optimal way to approach a situation and people will always take issue with that. 

Personally I just took my Lens 

Edited by Oreades

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24 minutes ago, DesertEagle1280 said:

Also - Mesa using 4 or Excal using 4 is somehow cheesier than Saryn 4'ing everything with a non-exalted ult how exactly?  Or are you really just saying "I want sorties that are weaponlocked to disable WF abilities altogether"?

I know it's a general problem, but lets keep it to the scope of weapons for now. It's also a selfish issue as I'm speaking for my desires and others might want it a different way. But trivializing content is always bad game design, and it's not fun. Of course power is the carrot that players are chasing for in this game. But it's the job of the game designers to limit access, or else players would choke on the carrot swallowing it hole.

 

33 minutes ago, Xarteros said:

I hate to be the first one to say it, but if you don't like PUGs, play with friends or play solo

of course that is an option. Or I can just leave the mission and try another squad. But I just wanted to put it up for discussion whether it would in general be a good idea to change this.

And yes I'd like to see Saryns AoE clear being nerfed, too. Totally. Although there are other similar abilities, this is where I'd draw the line.

 

28 minutes ago, Oreades said:

Eh to be fair I personally feel that Peacemaker should be considered an ability and run off a stat stick because frankly that isn't a weapon it's a power

Mesas peacemakers are a power, no doubt. But they clearly are also a secondary weapon. They take the corresponding mods. I say let's have players their Mesa in secondary only sorties, and other exalted weapons corresponding.

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Why specifically Mesa though?

There are tons of exalted weapon around too, Hildryn's Exalted Secondary is 1st slot skill even. Baruuk's Pacifist now scales big time with true/sacrificial steel buff. et cetera.

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What will be fixed by removing mesa's peacemaker or whatever? what's the point of it?

It's actually a harmful change that prevent others from having fun, while doesn't fix your problems in any way.

Edited by Test-995

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hows about we DON'T restrict the exalted weapons like this.

 

if i want to use my talons, i should have all the right to lunge at some poor shmuck from 50 meters away, even in a sortie.

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Well then we can just remove sortie weapon restrictions completely. Because who likes restrictions, right? And while we're at it, who likes time sink, let's just max out gear on button press. Or give every Archwing blink.... oops

Or we could stop using our lizard brains for one second and think about game design.

Like children who don't want to give away their toys ...

 

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37 minutes ago, supernils said:

Or we could stop using our lizard brains for one second and think about game design.

Then you have to stop trying to nerf just mesa and expand scope to dozen more of frames.

nerfing exalted weapons doesn't fix anything, we'll just use abilities and you'll still complain about you can't kill anything.

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18 hours ago, supernils said:

Idk, some players are probably glad they can just Mesa the f*** out of those missions.

I think it's boring enough having 1-button-kill-all frames in their regular missions, but when you actually try to enjoy some quality time with your unbeloved bow or shotgun - because you have to - in those sorties and then someone just cheese modes the whole thing... ok let me just tab out to desktop until they're done because that's the most reasonable thing to do. Game design wise somethings broken here

So you want more limiting factors? Don't you think DE has already f***** us enough lately? I do, but it's just my opinion.

I got a solution for you, go solo or with friends/clan mates, profit!

How about a sortie type where you can't use any abilities or sprint or bullet jump? That' d be fun!!! /S

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6 hours ago, supernils said:

Well then we can just remove sortie weapon restrictions completely. Because who likes restrictions, right? And while we're at it, who likes time sink, let's just max out gear on button press. Or give every Archwing blink.... oops

Or we could stop using our lizard brains for one second and think about game design.

Like children who don't want to give away their toys ...

 

I think I get it, you are just upset that people are killing things fater than you so you want to punish those who are smart enough to think ahead and grab a frame that can offer support for others.

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4 minutes ago, (PS4)Aneres_Omega said:

I think I get it, you are just upset that people are killing things fater than you so you want to punish those who are smart enough to think ahead and grab a frame that can offer support for others.

lol yeah I am "upset" that they (you?) are so "good" and "smart" to come up with such "advanced" tactics. Yes that's it, it's all just envy. If that's what you need to think.

 

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Even if the Exalted Weapons were restricted, people would just bring out nuke abilities and nothing would change for you, you'd still alt tab out of the game and wait for the nuker to clear the map.

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16 minutes ago, supernils said:

lol yeah I am "upset" that they (you?) are so "good" and "smart" to come up with such "advanced" tactics. Yes that's it, it's all just envy. If that's what you need to think.

 

If you noticed I never said I use Mesa, nor that I am smarter than you or anyone else.

I use Wisp these days and rarely do I do sorties as I am not really into them.

All I am saying that those taking Mesa or others like her are thinking tactically.

The way you worded your original topic and replies are a dead give away that you are ether extremely upset or just angry that you are being out done, nothing envious about it.

 

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On 2019-11-26 at 3:42 PM, supernils said:

Idk, some players are probably glad they can just Mesa the f*** out of those missions.

I think it's boring enough having 1-button-kill-all frames in their regular missions, but when you actually try to enjoy some quality time with your unbeloved bow or shotgun - because you have to - in those sorties and then someone just cheese modes the whole thing... ok let me just tab out to desktop until they're done because that's the most reasonable thing to do. Game design wise somethings broken here

If you want quality time with your bow- invite only/solo/recruit. Done.

Most people only do sortie for rewards - and taking 30 min per mission is not efficient use of time if after the rewards.  Expecting any public squad mission in warframe to be anything BUT speed run -  is unrealistic to put it kindly.

 

 

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44 minutes ago, (XB1)Tucker D Dawg said:

Most people only do sortie for rewards

you can't design the game for people who are only still around for the reward and not for the game itself. People who can't quit because of a lack of discipline or alternatives. And they  are usually the loudest, because they've invested the most and they're dissatisfied most. When you start basing your design choices upon those players then you're destroying the game for everyone.

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5 hours ago, (PS4)Aneres_Omega said:

All I am saying that those taking Mesa or others like her are thinking tactically.

The way you worded your original topic and replies are a dead give away that you are ether extremely upset or just angry that you are being out done, nothing envious about it.

Sure there is nothing wrong with trying to play effectively. It's a core aspect of every game. It's not that I don't do it myself.

But it's up to the developers to limit that effectiveness, to ensure a challenge still exist. Balancing the carrot on the stick. This is the struggle. The lizard brain of the players complains about nerfs and grind, but if the devs would just give those players what they ask for, they'd quickly be bored and also complain.

And that's the perspective I'm seeing the game from. I too want the feeling of progress, of power, but I don't want too much of it, I want the game to keep challenging me. I don't want to bring the most overpowered gear to every mission, I don't want to gimp the S#&$ out of the game. Because then I'd quickly be at that point, where the game would bore me to death, and I want to prevent that.

And yes of course it "upsets" me when I try to play the game that way and collide with players who don't see that. It sounds presumptuous but I just think the change I propose would be best for all players, even those who disagree out of their gut.

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The thing is you want to target abilities of only a couple of frames that to many seems fairly selfish.

Why not do sorties with those whom won't use those frames instead?

One of my problems with sorties and why I don't like them is because of how slow they are.

I also hate bows and I have no choice but to keep one on hand if I want to do sorties.

Thats why i like it when people bring in mesa or othe nuke frames.

It speeds up a slow mission.

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vor 12 Stunden schrieb supernils:

Well then we can just remove sortie weapon restrictions completely. Because who likes restrictions, right?

That actually sounds like its the best idea, yeah.

vor 9 Minuten schrieb supernils:

But it's up to the developers to limit that effectiveness, to ensure a challenge still exist.

Providing tools and then take them away to provide a "challenge" is the epitomy of failing at game design. Balancing them is one thing, outright removing them shows just that you failed to maintain the integrity of your own game.

vor 11 Minuten schrieb supernils:

I want the game to keep challenging me

Definitely. I would like to be challgned in Warframe. With the tools the game provided me. With the gameplay that made me love the game in the first place. *insert weapon*-Only Sortie's however are not a challenge. They are a simply restriction. For one using said weapon all day its usual business, for someone who doesn't like the weapon its an unfun slog, only the fewest of players will find anything in these restrictions that will make them appreciate those.

vor 19 Minuten schrieb supernils:

I don't want to bring the most overpowered gear to every mission

And I want to use the power I've worked for in the game. If you personally don't thats up to you, but you have no right to enforce personally chosen restrcitions upon others.

 

vor 22 Minuten schrieb supernils:

And yes of course it "upsets" me when I try to play the game that way and collide with players who don't see that. It sounds presumptuous but I just think the change I propose would be best for all players, even those who disagree out of their gut.

It won't  change a damn thing. You disable exalted weapons and then everyone runs Saryn or Equinox or Ember or Nidus or Octavia. There are enough non-exalted frames that can simply kill with abilities. Which brings us back again to: Do you want all abilties disabled only so you can enjoy your Bow only sortie that you could just play solo or in an organized group on your own terms but chose to play in a public group?

There is zero merit in your proposition as all you seek is to restrict players who you chose to play with on your own terms. If those players wanted to only use a bow or whatever they would simply do so. You also have no ground on the side of "its supposed to be played like this" as all abilities are intentionally allowed to be used. That is no exploit, its a choice.
Warframe is not only about weapons.

If you want to play a certain way, meet up with like-minded players or do it on your own. You have no right to force your playstyle upon others.

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1 hour ago, supernils said:

you can't design the game for people who are only still around for the reward and not for the game itself. People who can't quit because of a lack of discipline or alternatives. And they  are usually the loudest, because they've invested the most and they're dissatisfied most. When you start basing your design choices upon those players then you're destroying the game for everyone.

They aren't basing the design on that.  But you should base your expectations on that.    They might however recognize that not everyone wants to slog through a sortie, but rather get back to playing mission types they enjoy - and those people might still want the Riven, Legendary, potato, whatever that the sortie rewards.

 

Crying about a limited restriction on a single mission (sortie) and cherry picking a few abilities out almost  200 abilities when all you need to do is go solo is silly.

For example why not cry about full CP in an armor enhanced sortie? Full Shield Disruption in a shield modifier - Both those are directly eliminating the entirety of the "restriction" and eliminate the supposed challenge presented by it.

How about no radial disarm or other abilities that stunlock or disarm enemies when they have enhanced weapon damage (elemental or other) - after all, preventing them from shooting takes the challenge out and goes against "challenge".

if you want to "try to enjoy some quality time with your unbeloved bow or shotgun"  you have ample opportunity and means to do so.  

 

 

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