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LootGate Continues: DE Rebecca Lied, Cubics and Carbides Build Upon Bad Precedence and Open The Gate For ALL New Materials to Be IMMUNE To Multiple Loot Drop Abilities


(PSN)True_Reclaimer
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Part III: The Loot Frames:  The third Mistake: not providing closure on the loot-frame changes from The Jovian Concord. We are restoring the loot mechanics to what they were before The Jovian Concord - Warframe Loot Abilities will again be able to yield multiple-drops from already looted corpses. 
Looting abilities serve a very singular purpose - to loot. And when they all stack on the same corpse, they become the only choice for loot-seekers. This puts players in a position of deciding whether or not to bring the frames that have the best looting abilities rather than anything else. Our intentions with the change were to alleviate that, but ultimately we are reverting it in an effort to eliminate bad will that these two items are related in any way.
We’d rather make a decision that possibly lessens choice but respects precedent, than have players think the choice was related to a new booster, and actions speak louder than words.

 

 
 
 
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Fixed Cubic Diodes and Carbide Resources not dropping 50% of the time. For further clarification, *abilities that increase loot drops do not apply to these Resource drop type: Cubic Diodes and Carbides have a 100% chance to roll the table for a 50% chance, can't boost that 100% any further!

 
So here we see Reb promising to "respect precedence" and restore loot abilities to yield "multiple drops from already looted corpses", yet only a month later new materials are introduced that ignore loot abilities completely!
 
Reb lied to push Atlas Prime Access sales and justify adding a paid booster to increase the drop rate of rare mods. I know it's in Sorties and Baro sells the booster for ducats as well, but the fact is it was added, in her own words, "to spice up Prime Access"
 
So now that sales have slowed, and the controversy has relaxed, DE decided to go ahead and make new materials that are not only multi-ability unlootable, but also made them singular-ability unlootable as well! And notice how Reb is SILENT now. She had Megan sneak in the bad news in a hotfix!
 
Very bad precedent. Its not about how hard these new resources are to farm, or whether they are "100% guaranteed to drop half the time"... but the fact that Reb promised
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Warframe Loot Abilities will again be able to yield multiple-drops from already looted corpses. 

 

And now thats simply not true at all. Future materials may also be excluded from this as well.
 
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can't boost that 100% any further!

 

Except that Warframe constantly goes past 100% such as with critical chance. Yes you can boost drops to 150% or even higher to have a chance to drop 2 Carbides or more per corpse. Its not rocket science, its developer shadiness and lies.
 
EDIT - Hearing reports that drop chance boosters and resource doubler boosters CAN in fact boost further past that 100% for 50% that Megan lied about
Edited by (PS4)True_Reclaimer
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Oh no we need to farm 100/120 new materials which only spawn from killing elites on specific map types.
Oh no syndicate raids spawn in all elite type enemies meaning you can get near 100 units of res in 1 raid. or go to wave 20 and get everything you need thats like half an hour of farming the horror. What ever shall we do in a game where in order to get all the focus tree you need to spend atleast a year to max it out

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Unpopular opinion: just like magic find gear in various ARPGs, lootframes were mistake to begin with and I'd rather see all the relevant abilities/augments changed to no longer do that, and drop rates of everything formerly affected increased across the board accordingly.

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50% of the time it works 100% of the time.

 

Just now, NigglesAU said:

You really dont like the grind for new materials. They really are NOT that hard to get.

No they weren't but that doesn't make the precedent any less concerning, this is just a different attack vector to potentially neuter looting abilities. Just because it doesn't come off as an immediate problem now doesn't mean it won't be in the future.

Look at Zaws for example, the Gilding system exists for literally no other reason than to force players to level their weapons twice for mastery. That begot the Paracesis which forces the player to level the thing not twice but six times and charges them five Formas along the way.... and now we have 13 new weapons with the exact same manipulative mechanic that tie Mastery directly to Forma usage.... 

The point being of you don't recognize the potential little chemistry experiments like this are positioned to become the new normal. 

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ENca0pM.png

230 cubic diodes in ... 4 min 25 seconds.

But I do agree that having resources not affected to multipliers is not beneficial to players, although understandable in a balance perspective. Imo, loot frames should not have existed in the first place to prevent this issue, but now that they exist, DE should just accept it as a mistake in their part and not make moves like such.

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What are you on about? Did you not even read or atleast understand what they said.

The new resources have a massively higher drop rate than anything "rare" previously in game. They have a straight up 50% chance to drop from a mob. This doesnt work like other loot in the game, hence why loot frames wont apply to these drops.

And boosters are working completely differently to this. Resource chance boosters do very likely not work, since resource boosters increase the chance for an item to roll on the table, i.e which would here increase the chance beyond 100%, which as they say isnt possible because the roll chance is already guaranteed. The double resource booster however works, since that applies to the stack itself that drops, which again works completely different from the frame skills that simply make another check on the table. Which in this case would come back as a "yes" for carbides since the game says the check succeeds 100% of the time. This would mean that even Atlas without power strength would always get 2x 50% chance for carbides per petrified kill since the game would ignore his 25% loot table check and go with the 100% one innate to the eximus unit and the material in question.

So no, they havent lied or stepped back, they've actually given us a resource that is very easy to get without needing a loot frame.

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3 minutes ago, Mephane said:

Unpopular opinion: just like magic find gear in various ARPGs, lootframes were mistake to begin with and I'd rather see all the relevant abilities/augments changed to no longer do that, and drop rates of everything formerly affected increased across the board accordingly.

This x 1 million.

Loot abilities don't add fun to the game, they just restrict loadout choice away from "most fun" and towards "most min-maxy". I don't want to have to choose the frame that messes with mechanics over the frame I enjoy playing the most.

When you have looting abilities in the game, DE has to balance drop rates not just on the base chance to get the item, but on the chance when people use loot abilities. This can create a disparity where the only way to achieve a bearable grind is to go full meta, which is generally considered to be an inferior system to "just bring fun stuff". If there weren't any loot abilites, then there's only one type of system that DE has to balance drop rates for. This results in much more consistent grinds with less crazy fringe stuff (e.g. some rare stances having an insanely low drop rate).

The Railjack resources are a good example of an improved system; loot abilities aren't available, but the drop rates are sensible in return.

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13 minutes ago, Mephane said:

Unpopular opinion: just like magic find gear in various ARPGs, lootframes were mistake to begin with and I'd rather see all the relevant abilities/augments changed to no longer do that, and drop rates of everything formerly affected increased across the board accordingly.

best opinion.

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16 minutes ago, Mephane said:

Unpopular opinion: just like magic find gear in various ARPGs, lootframes were mistake to begin with and I'd rather see all the relevant abilities/augments changed to no longer do that, and drop rates of everything formerly affected increased across the board accordingly.

I actually agree with this. It's clearly causing issues in the game.

The only choice that should impact how much loot I get is whether or not to use a booster. I shouldn't feel forced to use a "loot frame" every time I'm actively gathering resources.

As to the topic, these items are not hard to farm, but for the sake of devil's advocate...

We don't know where else we will use these resources when Empyrean drops.

Edited by DrakeWurrum
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14 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

As to the topic, these items are not hard to farm, but for the sake of devil's advocate...

We don't know where else we will use these resources when Empyrean drops.

We also don't know where else we will GET the materials from once Empyrean drops either.

These things could be the new Salvage in Empyrean for all we know.

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7 minutes ago, Aldain said:

We also don't know where else we will GET the materials from once Empyrean drops either.

These things could be the new Salvage in Empyrean for all we know.

You didn't watch Tennocon did you? XD

On a serious note, Reb got a bit more than a hundred by shooting at a random asteroid, it shouldn't be that hard to get

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28 minutes ago, YUNoJump said:

When you have looting abilities in the game, DE has to balance drop rates not just on the base chance to get the item, but on the chance when people use loot abilities. This can create a disparity where the only way to achieve a bearable grind is to go full meta, which is generally considered to be an inferior system to "just bring fun stuff". If there weren't any loot abilites, then there's only one type of system that DE has to balance drop rates for. This results in much more consistent grinds with less crazy fringe stuff (e.g. some rare stances having an insanely low drop rate).

This is a F2P game, do you really think that if they just magiced away loot frames tomorrow that they would suddenly balance the loot across the game to be bearable? 

Yeah there is only one system that DE would have to balance drops for.... drop chance boosters.... and then you would have no choice, no alternative. 

This is very much a "my sweet summer child" moment. 

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42 minutes ago, Mephane said:

Unpopular opinion: just like magic find gear in various ARPGs, lootframes were mistake to begin with and I'd rather see all the relevant abilities/augments changed to no longer do that, and drop rates of everything formerly affected increased across the board accordingly.

I fully agree that the looting abilities were a mistake 

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1 minute ago, Oreades said:

This is a F2P game, do you really think that if they just magiced away loot frames tomorrow that they would suddenly balance the loot across the game to be bearable? 

Yeah there is only one system that DE would have to balance drops for.... drop chance boosters.... and then you would have no choice, no alternative. 

This is very much a "my sweet summer child" moment. 

in a way stuff is already balanced around the boosters look at kuva that and necros is a fairly meh frame and could be way better if he was not so heavily used for his 3 (arguably his only good ability and if you claim is 4 is worth any thing as an Oberon main you will not be able to convince me until they remove it's anti-synergy that screws us over every time they cast it) if he and hydroid lost the looking abilities they would be more likely to be looked at because they would be more likely to go unused, that and then they would have to fix survival (the hardest thing about solo survival is the lack of spawns in the first 5 min)

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9 minutes ago, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

You didn't watch Tennocon did you? XD

On a serious note, Reb got a bit more than a hundred by shooting at a random asteroid, it shouldn't be that hard to get

I was too busy picking my jaw up off the floor due to excitement, guess I missed that.

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