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zhellon

The mobility of the archwing system has become much worse.

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-Now the archwing stops instantly, which means I can't control my speed anymore. I know inertia is a problem for many players, but why not then make a separate setting where the player could turn it off and on at will?

-We lost the second level of speedboost. This means that archwing has become much slower than before. Could we get a buff speed boost? It feels very slow now.

-Teleport on the evade button is a bad concept. It limits my maneuvers a lot. Can I as a PC player assign this to a separate button and disable teleport in evade button?

Don't get me wrong, but the current system has lost its charm. Now it's just a transport that has lost all its combat chips and advantages. And the saddest thing is that now it affects Titania, which uses archwing mode for combat. (However, the third problem does not concern it, but I would like to Titania got teleport.)

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imho I think there're two things that need to be reverted back to their previous setting when it comes to Archwings.

1. The inertia effect instead of the archwing instantly stopping on decelerating.

2. Itzal's 1st causing it to blink instead of a grappling hook. This was incredibly useful in traversing long distances in free roam missions.

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11 minutes ago, Kattrendy said:

imho I think there're two things that need to be reverted back to their previous setting when it comes to Archwings.

1. The inertia effect instead of the archwing instantly stopping on decelerating.

2. Itzal's 1st causing it to blink instead of a grappling hook. This was incredibly useful in traversing long distances in free roam missions.

the Itzal was the only archwing being used because of it's blink, that is the reason itzal's 1 was turned into a grappling hook, because they gave it's blink to all the archwings.

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20 minutes ago, KiryuKusakabe said:

...because they gave it's blink to all the archwings.

Could you illustrate please ?
Edit : NVM figured it out.

Edited by Kattrendy

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2 hours ago, zhellon said:

-Now the archwing stops instantly, which means I can't control my speed anymore. I know inertia is a problem for many players, but why not then make a separate setting where the player could turn it off and on at will?

How exactly did inertia allow for speed control before? Actual movement outside of drifting with Archwings was always set to some fixed speed, it's just that now we have two speeds instead of three.

2 hours ago, zhellon said:

-We lost the second level of speedboost. This means that archwing has become much slower than before. Could we get a buff speed boost? It feels very slow now.

Boost in its current form is the maximum speed we once had, so there's no change to our maximum traversal speed outside of changes to Blink. The fact that the ability can no longer be spammed on Itzal to teleport instantly around the Plains of Eidolon or Orb Vallis is likely why Archwing feels slower now, especially if using another, slower Archwing. Honestly, I welcome this change, as I dislike instant fast-travel due to how it destroys gameplay, and would in fact not be opposed to eliminating Boost and instead buffing/reworking K-Drives to be our new rapid traversal tool.

2 hours ago, zhellon said:

-Teleport on the evade button is a bad concept. It limits my maneuvers a lot. Can I as a PC player assign this to a separate button and disable teleport in evade button?

I agree that the bindings aren't great. Really, though, I think the ability also feels completely redundant now that it can't be spammed for map-wide teleportation, so I'd rather get rid of it entirely.

2 hours ago, zhellon said:

Don't get me wrong, but the current system has lost its charm. Now it's just a transport that has lost all its combat chips and advantages. And the saddest thing is that now it affects Titania, which uses archwing mode for combat. (However, the third problem does not concern it, but I would like to Titania got teleport.)

Archwing was never good for combat outside of dedicated missions in the first place, and the only way to change that is going to be by removing those stupid automatic anti-air missiles every enemy launches when the player tries to fight from AW.

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18 часов назад, Teridax68 сказал:
How exactly did inertia allow for speed control before? Actual movement outside of drifting with Archwings was always set to some fixed speed, it's just that now we have two speeds instead of three.

Since the speed is now reduced instantly, you can only fly at top speed or shift. Previously, the speed was not reduced instantly, which allowed you to have, for example, 50% of the maximum speed, just short presses on the button. Inertia also affected the range of the evades. Now we've lost that too.

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Personally, I enjoy the new archwing movement. Giving me more control, turning with mouse is more responsive and I don't bump at things constantly anymore on archwing missions.

The drifting after letting go of movement keys was a frustrating experience, because if I want to stop, I should stop, not drifting a dozen meters and then turning constantly just to get where I want to. This was problematic in Eidolon hunts, because back then when we used Itzal, the only way for us to stop instantly was to use the second ability - Penumbra. Otherwise you just drift and turn constantly, hoping that you'll stop sometime.

With the new movement, if I'm traversing through a tunnel on corpus archwing missions, I just press shift and aim my archgun while moving.

But, I gotta say, the new afterburner (when pressing both shift and forward movement key) is on the slower side, even with Hyperion Thrusters and many, including myself, are disappointed with the new blink but there's no way I don't want it removed, just buffed. How? Ok, if anyone has heard or seen the gameplay of Overwatch, you know about a character named Tracer. She has a dash ability that can be used 3 times before the cooldown. So, to buff the blink ability is to give 3 uses instead of 1 before you hit a cooldown. That way Itzal users will be happy.

As for the new afterburner, add new mods that increase the speed or just buff the overall speed.

Edited by RobRalneR
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Original system was much better! How can you stop in mid air, just letting off the throttle? 

You actually needed to fly the thing, pointing thrust in opposite direction. Now its like moving through water, not air, its dumb!

 

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1 час назад, anonimus_riga сказал:

Original system was much better! How can you stop in mid air, just letting off the throttle?

You actually needed to fly the thing, pointing thrust in opposite direction. Now its like moving through water, not air, its dumb!

I'm not against the current system. It's more like a braking assist system. And I don't mind turning it on from time to time. This also works well in narrow spaces, which would allow archwing to be used everywhere.

But I am against the fact that they completely abandoned the old system, which also provided huge advantages in open spaces. 

This reminds me more of the setting in Ace online, which automatically aligned the plane relative to the horizon so that the player could not fly upside down. And this setup was useful to a group of players because their abilities worked poorly when they were flying upside down. But most players turned it off. I don't see why it can't be done that way.

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Le 27/11/2019 à 15:30, zhellon a dit :

-Now the archwing stops instantly, which means I can't control my speed anymore. I know inertia is a problem for many players, but why not then make a separate setting where the player could turn it off and on at will?

-We lost the second level of speedboost. This means that archwing has become much slower than before. Could we get a buff speed boost? It feels very slow now.

-Teleport on the evade button is a bad concept. It limits my maneuvers a lot. Can I as a PC player assign this to a separate button and disable teleport in evade button?

Don't get me wrong, but the current system has lost its charm. Now it's just a transport that has lost all its combat chips and advantages. And the saddest thing is that now it affects Titania, which uses archwing mode for combat. (However, the third problem does not concern it, but I would like to Titania got teleport.)

Why would anyone turn on the inertia, if you liked it maybe something was wrong with you in the first place ? Warframe isn't flight simulator, we need some precision since it's a shooter game and inertia was definitely a pain to deal with, bumping into the scenery is gone and it's good news.

I agree with you about afterburner and teleport, DE definitely missed the point there and something should be done about that, especially when one is playing with a controller. Low speed archwing is better, high speed one is definitely worse.

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20 минут назад, 000l000 сказал:
Why would anyone turn on the inertia, if you liked it maybe something was wrong with you in the first place ? Warframe isn't flight simulator, we need some precision since it's a shooter game and inertia was definitely a pain to deal with, bumping into the scenery is gone and it's good news.

You seriously write that: "Inertia should not be, because something is wrong with me?"

It's like removing the recoil of a weapon because it's a ninja game with unmatched accuracy. Reformulate your thought correctly and without getting personal.

 

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On 2019-11-27 at 9:30 AM, zhellon said:

-Now the archwing stops instantly, which means I can't control my speed anymore. I know inertia is a problem for many players, but why not then make a separate setting where the player could turn it off and on at will?

-We lost the second level of speedboost. This means that archwing has become much slower than before. Could we get a buff speed boost? It feels very slow now.

-Teleport on the evade button is a bad concept. It limits my maneuvers a lot. Can I as a PC player assign this to a separate button and disable teleport in evade button?

Don't get me wrong, but the current system has lost its charm. Now it's just a transport that has lost all its combat chips and advantages. And the saddest thing is that now it affects Titania, which uses archwing mode for combat. (However, the third problem does not concern it, but I would like to Titania got teleport.)

fake inertia is what it was. no flight sim or any flight game that has inertia allows the ship to turn on a dime with momentum instantly turning with the crosshair. none.

i can control my speed perfectly. archwing is slower than before? i dont think so.

problem with making new keybindings is gamepad suffers. people keep forgetting this but oh well.

the charm is still there only now it feels better to me. really you should speak for yourself. the system is good. you just dont like it or cant get used to it. Warframe is not  flight sim or a flight dog fight game.

Edit: @anonimus_riga throttle control? is this a joke? archwing has never had throttle anything. you could not and cannot set 25% speed, 50% speed, and 100% speed and keep flying in a direction. as i said above warframe is not a flight game nor is it a dog fighting flight game.

Edited by EinheriarJudith

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5 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

fake inertia is what it was. no flight sim or any flight game that has inertia allows the ship to turn on a dime with momentum instantly turning with the crosshair. none.

i can control my speed perfectly. archwing is slower than before? i dont think so.

Edit: @anonimus_riga throttle control? is this a joke? archwing has never had throttle anything. you could not and cannot set 25% speed, 50% speed, and 100% speed and keep flying in a direction. as i said above warframe is not a flight game nor is it a dog fighting flight game.

Go make a high power razorwing blitz build with sprint mods and tell me how perfectly you can control it when you teleport into the nearest wall.

You used to be control that build just fine since it took you some time to accelerate. You could still move at the ridiculous max speed if you wanted to but you could keep yourself at a controllable speed if you stopped pressing W for a bit or didn't fly completely straight. With the new system you are either moving way too fast or completely stopped with nothing in between.

It's not as completely gamebreaking a problem for archwings as it is for Titania but it's still a problem for the fastest ones since you have less control over your speed.

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hace 22 horas, EinheriarJudith dijo:

fake inertia is what it was. no flight sim or any flight game that has inertia allows the ship to turn on a dime with momentum instantly turning with the crosshair. none.

Even if what we had was fake inertia (I'll agree on that, it's weird to have the same momentum when turning back all of a sudden), inertia does exist cause it's a physical property of bodies in motion from Newton's laws. I'm not buying that you can nullify inertia and go to a zero acceleration state right away by just stop pressing Shift key. You need an opposite force to the inertia you have to do that (aka brakes for grounded vehicles, reverse propulsion for rest), and it's not instantaneous. Also, in void (not the Void nodes, but space) since there's nothing to stop you like air while being on a planet, momentum should be infinite and the only way to stop by yourself is using reverse propulsion. That's how acceleration works in the real world and how it should've been discussed for archwing rework.

Now into other matters, what I'm missing the most is that you could control archwing movement laterally disregarding the camera angle, so you could do tight turns by pressing right key and moving the mouse to the left, and viceversa. Now the only way to turn is moving the mouse and right/left turned into strafe instead of changing the movement angle to diagonal. I personally find it awful

Edited by Lord__Sauron
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I'm kind of digging new Archwing changes, when it comes to functionality. I can now use Amesha without feeling too slow. Being able to stop whenever I want and just move in any direction whenever I want is also something I enjoy. I also don't have any problems with dodges. Maybe I feel that way because I was never a huge fan of Archwing, I would use it to go from point A to point B or to float 100m over an objective in open world while having Amesha sphere protecting it from damage lol.

However, I have to admit, instant stops look pretty damn dumb, heh. IM MOVING AT 4924103132KM/SECOND - and now I'm completely still. Like, lmao, DE could at least add some kind of visual effect. Like, some kind of energy field in front of you, so it at least doesn't look as cheap.

Also, even with that level of control over our speed we still cannot "sprint" backwards. I was expecting that to be a thing, seeing how crazy movement is now.

Feels like developers can't decide on what they want from archwing, though it's not surprising since it always felt that way. But anyway, I like the changes more than I dislike them.

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On 2019-11-30 at 7:50 PM, anonimus_riga said:

Original system was much better! How can you stop in mid air, just letting off the throttle? 

Void magic, no different from frame power or whatsoever.

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There was throttle more or less, yes, with 3 steps W, W+shift , W+shift+space and also with inertia you slowed down eventually and could tap W to continue going slowly.

Dont remember if turning changed direction of travel to be honest, but turn 360* is normal. I think I did turn back 180 and was flying backwards and shooting, this way its absolutely fine!

In space you can rotate your craft to point in any direction, keeping vector - direction of travel unchanged!

 

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В 11/30/2019 в 7:11 PM, EinheriarJudith сказал:

fake inertia is what it was.

Personally, I don't mind if inertia would rework. I don't mind if inertia can be turned off in the settings. I don't mind the lack of inertia being a unique property of some wings. And it would be nice if Titania could control her own inertia with her abilities. 

But now we've got a complete removal, which is bad. 
 

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5 hours ago, zhellon said:

Personally, I don't mind if inertia would rework. I don't mind if inertia can be turned off in the settings. I don't mind the lack of inertia being a unique property of some wings. And it would be nice if Titania could control her own inertia with her abilities. 

But now we've got a complete removal, which is bad. 
 

DE doesnt  need to and shouldnt try to turn Warframe into a flight game when its barely good at being a third person loot shooter horde game. if you want flight mechanics..... go play a flight game. warframe isnt a flight game.

Edited by EinheriarJudith

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On 2019-12-01 at 8:42 PM, Lone_Dude said:

I'm kind of digging new Archwing changes, when it comes to functionality. I can now use Amesha without feeling too slow. Being able to stop whenever I want and just move in any direction whenever I want is also something I enjoy. I also don't have any problems with dodges. Maybe I feel that way because I was never a huge fan of Archwing, I would use it to go from point A to point B or to float 100m over an objective in open world while having Amesha sphere protecting it from damage lol.

However, I have to admit, instant stops look pretty damn dumb, heh. IM MOVING AT 4924103132KM/SECOND - and now I'm completely still. Like, lmao, DE could at least add some kind of visual effect. Like, some kind of energy field in front of you, so it at least doesn't look as cheap.

Also, even with that level of control over our speed we still cannot "sprint" backwards. I was expecting that to be a thing, seeing how crazy movement is now.

Or, we could ask DE for inertia to return but instead we can control the speed of it and when to stop almost instantly.

I copied my comment from reddit:

"Ok, if people liked that, then here's an easy way to fix it.

Currently, which you can do right now is you can control your afterburner speed with forward and backward keys while pressing the sprint key.

With this feature, we could implement the drifting back with more control. The speed of the afterburner will dictate how strong the drifting will be:

Slowest speed = slowest drifting

Fastest speed = fastest drifting

After letting go of the sprint key, you can drift. If you're stuck in the slowest drifting, simply hold the sprint key to increase the speed. To stop the drifting altogether, simply hold down the backward key for a second."

With this change, you won't have any inertia if you just move around your Archwing, but the moment you start the afterburner (by pressing the sprint key), you will have inertia but dictated how strong it is based on the afterburners' speed.

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Inertia back? Ew... No. That's like asking for Parkour 1.0 to return.

A slight, 3m maximum, post afterburner drift would be nice as a minor detail, but DE's got the gameplay direction right: these science fantasy wings bring space warfare domination... And can stop on a dime.

What I miss is the ability to roll and do flips. Not everything in space has to be right side up like a StarFox level.

It was kinda surreal having to orient myself and accept new perspectives like I was.... You know.... IN SPACE!?

DE, if you read this, please make the roll control and ability to do inverted loops an option in the gameplay menu again.

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6 hours ago, Ekemeister said:

Inertia back? Ew... No. That's like asking for Parkour 1.0 to return.

A slight, 3m maximum, post afterburner drift would be nice as a minor detail, but DE's got the gameplay direction right: these science fantasy wings bring space warfare domination... And can stop on a dime.

What I miss is the ability to roll and do flips. Not everything in space has to be right side up like a StarFox level.

It was kinda surreal having to orient myself and accept new perspectives like I was.... You know.... IN SPACE!?

DE, if you read this, please make the roll control and ability to do inverted loops an option in the gameplay menu again.

I also thought that removing inertia was a good idea but I now see people complaining about that too. The community now dislikes how Titania flies with her Razorwing and so is Archwing because of inertia removal.

Don't get me wrong, the community and I like the new Archwing system. We can finally move freely with less flight sim restrictions but removing inertia entirely is not something everybody likes and I somehow understand.

I'm not saying to bring back the old inertia because the reason the community disliked it is because you had little control over it, which means you always overshoot your stopping/landing position.

What the community, myself included, wants is to bring it back but with more control in addition to near instant stopping.

Edited by RobRalneR
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Let's reface what the new Archwing has brought:

+ You need one less button to fly at top speed

- We no longer have the already limited 6 DoF we had before, we're basically back at AW 1.0 in that regard

- On default config, you can't boost + blink at the same time, as one is holding the button and the other is tapping it
so you're in this awkward situation where you're trying to blink but hold the button for too long so you start boosting.
and if you still want to do forward rolls, good luck not blinking.
(we need a goddamn blink button)

- You can still not change your altitude when using a tranq rifle in AW Mode

 

(neutral) Inertia is gone compeltely.

IDK how to stand on this, on one hand, before, inertia was way too strong, 
you would let go of W and start pressing S, even do backwards flips, and still go a few hundred meters foward.

now, you don't have any inertia and instantly come to a stop, which doesn't feel good either.

a compromise would be to return inerta, but only when you don't press any other buttons?
e.g. once you press S, you start actually going backwards, not come to a forward-crawl for another 50m and then start going backwards.
 

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On 2019-11-27 at 4:30 PM, zhellon said:

-Now the archwing stops instantly, which means I can't control my speed anymore. I know inertia is a problem for many players, but why not then make a separate setting where the player could turn it off and on at will?

I wish they could make this a reality. I understand many players like the new system and I don't want to take it away from them, so it would be nice to have intertia as an option for players like us who liked the old system.

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