Now that archwing is being improved, could we get archwing sorties and arbitrations?

[SteveCutler]

As the title says, now that archwing is being improved, could we please get archwing sorties and arbitrations?

[Cephalon_Saryndipity]

Please...no...

although if the controls were overhauled and as dynamic and fluid as the rest of the game... then yes...Please. 

[Althaline]

17 minutes ago, IIAc3sII said:

actually felt real

HMMM YES HAIRPIN TURNS AT MACH 3 VERY REALISTIC

Seriously, the realism argument doesn't hold up and the new system is much nicer to control than the old one. Now they just need to put Experimental Flight back in, reduce Blink's cooldown, and give Itzal a real 1, then we're set.

[Steel_Rook]

45 minutes ago, IIAc3sII said:

lol, if you call this an improvement, doesnt feel like im flying a machine anymore, physics are unrealistic as hell now.

They were always unrealistic. Sometimes you can do hairpin u-turns at full speed, sometimes you can't slow down over 150 meters. I'll take no physics over janky physics.

 

1 hour ago, SteveCutler said:

As the title says, now that archwing is being improved, could we please get archwing sorties and arbitrations?

Archwings need a lot more than just tighter controls. For one thing, you'd need more than a 9 Archwing nodes total, over half of which are utter garbage. You'd also need Archwing-specific game modes to not such for rewards, such as Rush only rewarding one reward rotation and requiring you to deliberately fail to stop some of the Transports to get a specific rotation. Archwings and their weapons would also need more mods worth slotting, and even then would need for half of those mods to not drop from a literal raid boss. Why can't we just use Warframe / Rifle / Melee mods on our Archwings and Archweapons, anyway?

Long story short, Archwing content is still terrible and not ready for prime time. Wait and see if Railjack does anything to add to their content, then we'll talk.

[Xarteros]

Beyond the control/feel aspect of Archwings, forcing players to use archwing under sortie conditions is just a horrible idea. Archwing doesn't scale anywhere near normal gameplay due to the lack of content and the lack of attention from DE.

Just got ninja'd by Steel_Rook, but it MIGHT become something worth talking about after Railjack launches in full.

[GruntBlender]

8 minutes ago, IIAc3sII said:

DE could have just fixed those things instead of removing all inertia from archwings completely

The old model wasn't physics based, it tried to mimic physics, which worked inconsistently. Consequently, "fixing" the old system to feel realistic would be a huge task that I'm not sure would be possible in the current engine. You can think of the new model as realistic for very high acceleration and limited max speed by safety systems built into the archwing itself.

[--K--Sharkfin]

3 hours ago, IIAc3sII said:

lol, if you call this an improvement, doesnt feel like im flying a machine anymore, physics are unrealistic as hell now.

Yes, I actually preferred the way it was before, was hard in the beginning, but once you get used to it it actually felt real, what we have now doesn't feel real, no inertia to it at all.

Totally, the archwing update destroyed the mood of eidolon hunt.

I am avoiding hunt from my friends and clanmates just because I don't feel like using archwing in the open anymore.  I would rather just ride K-drive in style for 80% less efficiency.

Edited November 28, 2019 by SHArK-FiN

[SpringRocker]

The controls and physics were butchered in this last update.

I used to routinely play the archwing missions but after the horrible changes of no inertia, inability to go adjust a speed somewhere between 100% and just sitting there, and removal of experimental flight controls I stopped. I get more angry than anything else, even trying to get used to the new controls I get so irritated at how it handles now that it's just not fun. The only time I use it is for skywing in which I use it to launch myself across the map until I'm within 300m at which point I void dash the rest of the way.

Titania also used to be my go to for sorties, after the physics change her Razorwing's been borked. Sad thing is she's now just sitting on the shelf.

Horrible physics and inability to aim up (aiming is locked at straight "up") are just going to turn railjack space battles into a joke people will meme about.

[Test-995]

5 hours ago, IIAc3sII said:

Yes well DE could have just fixed those things instead of removing all inertia from archwings completely, sure inertia wasnt perfect, but at least it was better to have it as opposed to not having it at all, it gave you the feeling of mass and weight on your actual archwing while flying it.

Nah it's better for most of gameplay, especially when you didn't had break to stop your momentum.

[ciTiger]

Please HELL NO!

[Xzorn]

I was a minority that actually liked Archwing before they started screwing with it. Ya know back when you did missions for the weapons.

Even I would not want to see that as a required mission type. It's very different than Warframe. You might as well ask for FlappyZephyr Sorties.

[Test-995]

4 minutes ago, IIAc3sII said:

it just took a little while.

Not suited for warframe.

Edited November 28, 2019 by Test-995

[Nitro747]

> "being improved"

HOW? The only thing that feels about 10% better is flying upward and downwards. Everything else feels like I'm playing those old NES flying games. Static camera, no liberty to fly however you want, clunky animations, etc.

[Steel_Rook]

8 hours ago, IIAc3sII said:

Yes well DE could have just fixed those things instead of removing all inertia from archwings completely, sure inertia wasnt perfect, but at least it was better to have it as opposed to not having it at all, it gave you the feeling of mass and weight on your actual archwing while flying it.

It's not a matter of "fixing things," because you can't fix what doesn't exist. Warframe HAS no unified physics flight model. I'm not entirely convinced the game's current codebase even supports unified physics in this way. Momentum for Archwings has always been garbage because it's not simulated physics inertia. Rather, each animation state applies its own forces in an attempt to kinda-sorta emulate what momentum might be like. The result is that some states emulate momentum, some don't, and some emulate momentum but relative to model direction. This is why you could hit "back" while boosting and see your Warframe spin around in place and immediately reverse direction at full speed - the back movement animation has no momentum emulation. This is also why trying to "drift" in Boost mode would push you in the direction you looked - it had momentum, but relative to player facing. It's also why at the same time trying to stop while Hovering caused you to drift the length of a football pich - THAT animation emulated momentum inherited from Boost.

The kind of flight controls you're looking for require a unified physics simulation where the player character is treated as a hard-body object moved about by acceleration forces both internal and external - a system which Warframe plain does not have and has never had. DE have been trying to fake it through various slap-dash hacks to their movement system for years, but seem to have finally given up on it entirely, and I honestly feel that's for the better. Even assuming Warframe's codebase were capable of physics like this, there are very few situations in the game which actually benefit from it - few enough that it's probably not worth the bother. Especially considering physics-based simulation objects are always harder and less precise to control.

Again, look at Destiny 2. That game appears to have a unified physics simulation for player movement, and is consequently substantially harder to control than Warframe. Characters are very likely to bounce off of walls, slide off of ledges, bump into ceilings and otherwise lose their jumps if you're not EXCEEDINGLY precise, all the while movement feels consistently sluggish and heavy. I mean, that's not necessarily a BAD thing, but it definitely comes with a much steeper learning curve, much more restricted movement options and much more frustration even once you've nailed down the mechanics. Warframe doesn't have any of that, and consequently has much simpler and more straightforward movement.

 

9 hours ago, SHArK-FiN said:

Totally, the archwing update destroyed the mood of eidolon hunt.

Take this from someone who's always done Eidolon hunts using basic Archwing boost - you have a very specific view of what constitutes "Eidolon hunts." The act of moving around the map is a minuscule part of those hunts and current Archwing physics are perfectly serviceable for it. The Plains of Eidolon is not exactly a large map and you rarely need to move very far from where you're fighting considering Lures and ammo stations are basically everywhere. This honestly feels like you're being stubborn and refusing to engage in any activities even tangentially related to Archwings purely out of spite.

[(PSN)Aneres_Omega]

I don't regularly do AW missions as I don't like any of them and if I didn't have to do them to clear a planet I wouldn't waste a single microsecond on it.

As the terrible changes I have been hearing from the PC players my dislike will go right to hatred of AWs.

I rarely do sorties because of some requires bows(i hate bows), now you want to combine the two?

Oh hell no!

 

Side note, I used AWs planet side so its not like I don't use it, I just don't like AW missions

Edited November 28, 2019 by (PS4)Aneres_Omega

[Uthael]

Give me an option to remove all of those "improvements" and I might consider it.

[--K--Sharkfin]

13 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

This honestly feels like you're being stubborn and refusing to engage in any activities even tangentially related to Archwings purely out of spite.

Well I believe this is just a transition period for me. Have to admit what i said is over exaggerated.

Tried casual 4x3 yesterday as trin with my clan. 4 Terry shield / 2+5 lures doesn't take too much extra time flying around, just because my clanmate suggested me to use Runtime

Don't feel like using blink now and I could gather 5 lures after the 4th shield's down and comeback before the voms call ends.

Surprisingly no one brought it up to me on the forum... 

Edited November 29, 2019 by SHArK-FiN

[Steel_Rook]

15 hours ago, SHArK-FiN said:

Well I believe this is just a transition period for me. Have to admit what i said is over exaggerated. Tried casual 4x3 yesterday as trin with my clan. 4 Terry shield / 2+5 lures doesn't take too much extra time flying around, just because my clanmate suggested me to use Runtime. Don't feel like using blink now and I could gather 5 lures after the 4th shield's down and comeback before the voms call ends. Surprisingly no one brought it up to me on the forum... 

Well, I didn't know about Runtime 🙂 As I said, though - travel has definitely become slower now that you can't teleport around the map, but I don't think it's become THAT much slower and you can certainly build around it to a point. I might not be aware of exactly how fast you guys can kill Eidolons, but in our single-Hydrolist runs the lure gathering is typically done by a single person while the others tackle the fight, and it's done WELL before we actually need all of them - even with standard flight.

[Staticor]

All i want is Experimental Flight back and for arch-melee to track enemies again

[Nichivo]

I still enjoy Archwing and would welcome both sortie, and arbitration as options, but don't stop there, I want Lich Archwing missions also please.