Why are Kuva Guardians immune to many Frame Abilities?

[TKDancer]

title.

why are these rotund stick wielders immune to many Warframe abilities?

edit: I am talking about *AFTER* blasting their polearms away with operator

why, for example, is ember incapable of stripping their armor with Fireblast or calling down meteors onto them with Inferno?

Edited November 29, 2019 by TKDancer

[Drachnyn]

It's a lore reason: Our warframe are of orokin design (atleast the oroginal design). Everything that is of orokin design has to obey their essence: the kuva. Therefore as long as they hold their kuva infused kesheg our warframes cannot harm them. It's like the teshin being forced to follow the queen's commands. Now this is a fairly strong protection against most threats. While it wont protect you from a cave man with a rock, it does protect against most armed forces, except the tenno. If we remove the symbol of their power, they become vulnerable to our warframes and weapons.

Now why cant our amp harm them directly? Consistency was forgotten.

[TKDancer]

1 minute ago, Drachnyn said:

It's a lore reason: Our warframe are of orokin design (atleast the oroginal design). Everything that is of orokin design has to obey their essence: the kuva. Therefore as long as they hold their kuva infused kesheg our warframes cannot harm them. It's like the teshin being forced to follow the queen's commands. Now this is a fairly strong protection against most threats. While it wont protect you from a cave man with a rock, it does protect against most armed forces, except the tenno. If we remove the symbol of their power, they become vulnerable to our warframes and weapons.

Now why cant our amp harm them directly? Consistency was forgotten.

no i'm talking about them after having their polearms blasted away, why do they become vulnerable to weapons and some direct abilities but cant be hit by others?

[Drachnyn]

Gerade eben schrieb TKDancer:

no i'm talking about them after having their polearms blasted away, why do they become vulnerable to weapons and some direct abilities but cant be hit by others?

oh, because balancing

[LSG501]

IMO.. forced use of the operator, some of still feel they weren't needed so DE keeps shoehorning enemies that can't be damaged by anything but the operator into the game.

[MirageKnight]

20 minutes ago, TKDancer said:

why are these rotund stick wielders immune to many Warframe abilities?

To provide "challenge".

Also, DE wants us to use Operators...regardless of whether we like it or not.

[TKDancer]

1 minute ago, MirageKnight said:

To provide "challenge".

Also, DE wants us to use Operators...regardless of whether we like it or not.

talking about AFTER they lose total immunity by using operator, many abilities are ignored by them

[Aldain]

Just now, TKDancer said:

talking about AFTER they lose total immunity by using operator, many abilities are ignored by them

Because things like Mesa exist and as a result it is easier for DE to make them immune to everything than shut off the few things that break the game in two.

Welcome to the end result of power creep gone mad.

[SneakyErvin]

I notcied after the Old Blood update they tend to go immune to status effects aswell on a whim. Sometime you land your statuses perfectly then other times they refuse to get effected.

[Lone_Dude]

They were first introduced during the kuva update, there was a quest about them kuva stuffs, that would teach you to use your operator against guards, and then you would get a riven and encounter them during kuva missions. Basically, it's a way to strong-arm you into using your operator. Their near-immunity to all kinds of attacks even after you operatored them is how DE attempts to make them intimidating, I guess. They're supposed to be ROYAL GUARDGUNSLINGERSWORDMASTERTRICKSTERS after all. Instead you just look at them and go "oh another attempt at difficulty via taking away your tools, whatever" and proc a 50k damage bleed that kills them anyway.

Edited November 29, 2019 by Lone_Dude
typos

[MirageKnight]

17 minutes ago, TKDancer said:

talking about AFTER they lose total immunity by using operator, many abilities are ignored by them

I know.

My "to provide 'challenge'" remark still applies.

15 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Because things like Mesa exist and as a result it is easier for DE to make them immune to everything than shut off the few things that break the game in two.

Welcome to the end result of power creep gone mad.

This.

The right thing to do would be to reel in our power levels substantially to more reasonable levels...but then you'd get entitled try-hards and "vets" harassing Steve and Scott to no end to get their precious "big numbers" back.

Can't have that now can we?

[DoomFruit]

1 hour ago, Drachnyn said:

It's a lore reason: Our warframe are of orokin design (atleast the oroginal design). Everything that is of orokin design has to obey their essence: the kuva. Therefore as long as they hold their kuva infused kesheg our warframes cannot harm them. It's like the teshin being forced to follow the queen's commands. Now this is a fairly strong protection against most threats. While it wont protect you from a cave man with a rock, it does protect against most armed forces, except the tenno. If we remove the symbol of their power, they become vulnerable to our warframes and weapons.

Now why cant our amp harm them directly? Consistency was forgotten.

That doesn't explain why explosive barrels, blowing out the windows on a spaceship, infested claws and teeth or Corpus plasma, lasers, tasers, grenades, radioactive crystals and napalm do nothing.

I would also say "Or Sentient pew-pew lasers. Because if anything's going to hurt Orokin, it's Sentients."... but I can't think of any mission where you can get a kuva lardian and a battalyst in the same room.

[Drachnyn]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb DoomFruit:

That doesn't explain why explosive barrels, blowing out the windows on a spaceship, infested claws and teeth or Corpus plasma, lasers, tasers, grenades, radioactive crystals and napalm do nothing.

I would also say "Or Sentient pew-pew lasers. Because if anything's going to hurt Orokin, it's Sentients."... but I can't think of any mission where you can get a kuva lardian and a battalyst in the same room.

Dont forget that the infested are also just a creation of the orokin. But of course there is a disconnect between lore and game mechanics like you pointed out.

Currently there are sometimes sentients in the neptune mobile defense on larissa. If a flood or siphons happens there you could get your meeting.

[DoomFruit]

1 hour ago, Drachnyn said:

Dont forget that the infested are also just a creation of the orokin. But of course there is a disconnect between lore and game mechanics like you pointed out.

Currently there are sometimes sentients in the neptune mobile defense on larissa. If a flood or siphons happens there you could get your meeting.

Oh, the Infested were quite happy to eat walking Orokin snacks. I forget which Simaris entry exactly that it was, but it was the one where two of the last surviving Orokin (not high-ranking, but enough that they were wanted by other survivors) were trying to get on board a shuttle to escape a whole bunch of Infested. It's also where we see our first overt Grineer rebellion, as after they'd been given their tools to slice up the Infested, they turned around, eviscerated the *@##$ier survivor and took the other hostage.

[OmegaVoid]

On 2019-11-29 at 5:41 PM, DoomFruit said:

I would also say "Or Sentient pew-pew lasers. Because if anything's going to hurt Orokin, it's Sentients."

I wouldn't take that as a given: the lore describes the Old War as having been "long".

Since the Sentients' damage adaptation made them difficult to destroy, if Sentient weaponry was devastating as well, I would think the War would have been rather short!

Note that the vast Sentient which attacked the Tower of the Unum laid siege to the place every night for some period of time. It didn't just turn up and flatten the place.

I sort of picture the Sentients tanking huge incoming damage, while dealing relentless chip damage to their Orokin opponents.

EDIT: It does seem the Sentients were comparatively few in number, though, so one-on-one they might still have been capable of one-shotting Orokin troops. But it's kind of up for grabs.

Edited November 30, 2019 by OmegaVoid
Afterthought.

[OmegaVoid]

On 2019-11-29 at 5:50 PM, Drachnyn said:

Dont forget that the infested are also just a creation of the orokin.

Yes, but unlike Dax who could be compelled to obey the wielder of the Sceptre(s?), the same technique clearly didn't work on an infested subject; they were flat-out uncontrollable.

As unforseeen side-effects go, that one was a doozy! 😆

The technological armour of the Warframes, when switched off, becomes a prison for the occupant, effectively neutralising them. From the Orokin PoV, that might actually have been its most important function.

Doubly so after the only known way to direct their infested super-soldiers was to turn over control of them to the Tenno, who the Orokin already feared and had planned to destroy.

EDIT: Aaaaaand I've just noticed that Corrupted Ancients are therefore rather difficult to square with the lore. 🤔

Edited November 30, 2019 by OmegaVoid
Afterthought.

[Andele3025]

On 2019-11-29 at 5:24 PM, Drachnyn said:

It's a lore reason: Our warframe are of orokin design (atleast the oroginal design). Everything that is of orokin design has to obey their essence: the kuva. Therefore as long as they hold their kuva infused kesheg our warframes cannot harm them. It's like the teshin being forced to follow the queen's commands. Now this is a fairly strong protection against most threats. While it wont protect you from a cave man with a rock, it does protect against most armed forces, except the tenno. If we remove the symbol of their power, they become vulnerable to our warframes and weapons.

Now why cant our amp harm them directly? Consistency was forgotten.

Nothing about kuva prevents frame abilities from working in lore (as far as i can recall), its just their kesheg which boosts them to be functionally invulnerable thus the damage portions should be ignored till disarmed (and realistically ANY and all disarms should remove their kesheg and all CC should work on them 100% of the time, but that would be sensible design that integrates gameplay and lore).

[(PSN)thegarada]

On 2019-11-29 at 11:13 AM, TKDancer said:

title.

why are these rotund stick wielders immune to many Warframe abilities?

edit: I am talking about *AFTER* blasting their polearms away with operator

why, for example, is ember incapable of stripping their armor with Fireblast or calling down meteors onto them with Inferno?

I am 100% sure you can strip armor and hit them with inferno. You cannot CC them. This goes for all frames.

Are they immune to status? I do not think they are, but they probably take reduced damage from slash, and maybe viral has no effect.

[TKDancer]

On 2019-11-30 at 5:31 PM, (PS4)thegarada said:

I am 100% sure you can strip armor and hit them with inferno

nope, they ignore fireblast and inferno does not summon meteors for them, even when their polearms are removed

[Xzorn]

It's called Lore-o-mancy.

It's when you create a mechanic but don't have a reason for that mechanic so you create story to justify it's existence.

Similar to the difference between creating content for a story and creating a story for content. One method generally comes out far more clean.