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Nekros as candidate for a future rework.


-Lazaroth-
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In my personal opinion, it seems to me that it is one of the most disappointing warframes in terms of concept. Don't get me wrong, I don't consider him weak, he is in fact one of the toughest with the right build. However, I can not help but think that he lacks a bit more of "Necromancy" in its essence. 

I understand he's not going to be a copy of the well-known D&D or Diablo necromancers but I think he could be improved. 

1) Soul Punch, I don't remember using it at any time, not even with its augment. 

2) Terrify, it's not so bad, maybe with more range, higher armor reduction and shield removal, to trully show that the enemies are defenseless, could be more interesting. 

3) Desecrate, I guess the vast majority of players are using Despoil, I've never met anyone who doesn't use it. Maybe that's how it should work by default. Allowing to have a different augment or opening a mod slot so we can customize the build a little more. 

4) Shadows of the Dead, I would prefer this not to be his 4th ability. Compared to other Warframes that also have damage reduction abilities, this would be one of the most interesting, raising the dead to absorb damage but without duration, allowing Nekros to maintain a constant damage reduction and then we only have to replace the shadows as they die due to the damage received. Regarding to a new 4th ability, I imagine it could be Nekros turning into a Lich (including some vfx) where he basically improves his skill set by creating a synergy between them: 

All these effects will be active upon activating his 4th until it expires (affected by Duration : 

  • Lord of Death: Each terrified enemy in the area increases his damage. (Damage is affected by Strenght,range same as Terrify)
  • Corpse feast: Health Orbs increase his HP above the maximum to a certain point. (Affected by Strenght)
  • Soul Siphon: Regenerates the energy of the allies for each energy orb consumed. (Affected by Strenght, range based in affinity range)
  • Unrelenting Shadows: The damage received by each shadow empowers them by increasing the damage they do and increasing their resistance to damage (i.e., they last longer before they die). (Damage and resistance multipliers affected by Strenght)

TLDR: Nekros lacks necromancy in his skill set. Despoil + Augment should be his 1st ability, improve Terrify increasing range and armor reduction. His 4th should be his 3rd instead granting him a continuous damage reduction and a new 4th ability that turns him into a lich in steroids.

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As a Nekros main (second most used frame behind Inaros, and just barely) I agree Nekros could use a bit of work but I'd argue in the complete opposite direction when it comes to his 4 at least.

I would like to see his shadows become a proper and more reliable source of damage: Closely following him to pepper nearby enemies with bullets and slaps, but allow Nekros to target an enemy (similar to Khora or Wukong commanding his clown) to send his shadows absolutely wild on a single target for massively increased damage. Either by tapping 4 again while the shadows are up, or holding the key down, while the opposite would resummon lost ranks/heal existing ones. That way Nekros could be a proper summoner and ruler of the dead as he should be.

Desecrate I agree with. Despoil is a 100% benefit in all ways and having it just be a part of the ability would be grand. Then they could do a more interesting augment like, I don't know, cursing an area to debuff enemies standing in it and cause them to drop additional loot when they die like a looty Hallowed Grounds. 

I also agree with terrify with the addition I'd like to see Creeping Terrify added to its base since that augment is BiS, but I'd understand if DE didn't. The armour stripping value, though, could use a buff since many other frames nowadays have a far easier time instantly making all armour vanish from enemies.

Soul Punch I'd just like to see send the enemies' soul out while they themselves don't fly away, so you could use it as a reliable way to use it like a long stun and be able to shoot them while they're down, instead of having to chase them down.

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11 hours ago, VisMortis said:

1) Soul Punch, I don't remember using it at any time, not even with its augment. 

Its absolutely amazing as peel cc now that Creeping Terrify got nerfed out of being worth the slot by slows no longer giving condition duration. Twice as much on shotguns (1h reliable high yeet cc easily spammed if cast from above on a enemy below you/right next to a wall or a reliable-ish knockdown if cast while sliding/from equal or slightly lower hight while crouched but not too low for the angle to bounce, something that really should be in nekros tips screen and i suggested it in the tips doc, but didnt pass through), its only its damage which needs to be buffed or turned to some 10% enemy max hp as slash (that always gores, after all garuda and oberon have spammable % damage 1s) or 10% of current hp OR 500 (aka current base damage), whichever is higher, true damage, half of which is then the damage dealt by the soul itself on collision with other enemies.

11 hours ago, VisMortis said:

2) Terrify, it's not so bad, maybe with more range, higher armor reduction and shield removal, to trully show that the enemies are defenseless, could be more interesting. 

Nah, if anything it should have its augments effects baked in now that its no longer a DPS boost and it already doesnt provide nekros any additional defense/safety (slowed attacks on feared enemies doesnt do anything, only helps not annoy allies and why slot in that when you can get more survivability for yourself when it isnt cast).
Essentially its BOTH worthless AND mandatory, because it doesnt do anything to you and nekros is already in 10-20 m of enemies most of the time, yet without it using terrify as a constant tool/active part of his kit annoys the living hell out of allies.

11 hours ago, VisMortis said:

3) Desecrate, I guess the vast majority of players are using Despoil, I've never met anyone who doesn't use it. Maybe that's how it should work by default. Allowing to have a different augment or opening a mod slot so we can customize the build a little more. 

Nah, desecrate is worth its slot as a augment and TECHNICALLY (due to how synth fiber let you pick up hp orbs without having taken damage, a no despoil build can actually sustain itself better). Tho i wouldnt say no to desecrate making despoil immune to nully bubbles.

11 hours ago, VisMortis said:

4) Shadows of the Dead, I would prefer this not to be his 4th ability.

What shadows needs is 1) AI & priority control (ability to overwrite summoned npc ai like mission types, arena missions and specters are able to do), if possible via a simulacrum+mandachord style ui where you also manually set priority of which shadows to raise/store) 2) Its shadow heal time always being instant/at the start of the cast time (which it is if you have below max shadow count, but if you are at 7+, it only heals them at the end, yet doesnt summon any additional ones if shadows die during the casting time, making you waste 40~155 energy depending on setup) 3) Better augment efficiency. Seriously shield of shadows is one of the most build slot costly augments to maximize the effectiveness out of (3-4 mod slots depending on what you dump, not counting SoS itself), yet it doesnt fully protect you from cc AND its main use/damage soak while ai taunt means your shadow lifespan drops massively. As such i propose: 5.5% DR base, caps at 75%, BUT gives AS A PASSIVE (like combo duration on ash 4 augment) gives him full iron skin/nezha ward like immunity to status and cc for a amount of charges/times equal to stored shadows, each knockdown/knockback/knockup/status effect applied expending a "soul" stored for shadows as the shield for nekros (encouraging you to keep harvesting enemies), instead of the pseudo-knockdown immunity and status transfer it has now, which due to recent enemy design DOESNT ACTUALLY WORK 30% of the time (nearby blast procs still knock him down, forced aoe status still applies to him with shadows up, knockbacks and knockups still work on him, only enemy staggers seem to actually be nulled 100% of the time).


Tho as a first step, id actually look into making his passive less "win more" and more "useful mid combat", like x hp a hit or tiny/0.5% lifesteal, maybe that could be shared to allies in desecrate range?

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I agree that nekros has not lived up to the terror he could be. I hope my suggestions help.

My thoughts about nekros' passive...

The passive compared to other frames does a decent amount but I honestly would like it to include a soul counter telling the player how many souls have been harvested. Maybe even put it as senergy with his other skills.

Soul punch...

I used this ability more as a meme skill, but I do enjoy the consept, Nichivo had a really good idea in turning it to make a shadow. Make it do regular soul punch but when held make a shadow on selected target. It is a single target ability anyway so I don't see the problem. Itd make up for its lack of damage. And the cap can still be 7 shadows.

Terrify...

Many of my friends complain about this ability. Having enemies run away at mock 5 doesn't really help. I'd like the ability to do more, but if nothing else if the ability at least damaged the enemy as it runs away, then the short armor strip would be fine to me.

Desicreate...

I honestly agree that despoil should cost health at base and have the augment do something else. At one point I recommended the augment just house the looting mechanic like all other frames and let nekros' skill just drop health and souls to harvest. Keeps loot and doesn't really affect builds. Just gives an alternative other then having to be the designated looter frame.

Shadows of the dead...

To me this ability lacks every reason to press the button to use it without an augment. And even with it I find it lacking. Yes the survivability it great, but the U.I. simply dont do damage for the cost. Not to mention the shadows have to many other problems like taking up spawn rate on the enemies. If the first would be reworked to summon shadows then I see no point in it being a fourth ability. I know many of my friends wanted Nekros to have an exalted scythe. Maybe have it use the souls as a battery similar to nidus' or baruke. As for the amount I doute itd be hard to make it like nidus' passive. If killed soul stacks get consumed. 

Back to the problem with nekros' fourth. To me I dont think the ability can get any better as it is. The reason being is that DE doesn't want the game to play itself. If shadows get buffed, DE runs the risk of the game playing the game for the player. I have actually just started summoning the shadows to get food while in a mission. Granted I'm not gone for a very long time but the fact remains I can basically leave the controls for a good 2 minutes and still have time to spare before shadows stop helping me with aggro. Not to mention Oberon players practically shut off their ability to heal most of the time because of the drain by shadows. It not alot but its enough that they don't wanna deal with it.

Out of all the abilities to me the fourth seems most likely to go and just be converted to the 1st ability as an add-on skill. I could be wrong, but that's how it feels to me.

Please keep suggesting possible changes for Nekros!

Just not passive desecrate...

 

 

 

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On 2019-11-30 at 9:29 AM, (PS4)Aveflamewolf said:

Another quick side note. 

Please change the mesh on nekros' shadows to a more custom one to make them more recognizable. I get several complaints about being unable to determine friend from for. I have tryed several different colors but in the end it doesn't seem to matter.

DE changes the shadows like every year because of this complaint. They’re fine as is now. Just pay a bit more attention.

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I would suggest making nekros' abilities synergize with his shadows more. Make him a real necromancer.

Nekros's summons have unique models of 3 types: A melee ghost, a ranged ghost, and a tanky defense ghost that gives a small defense buff. Which ones you get are based on enemies killed. Like killing variants of crewmen, lancers, and mutalist moas will get you ranged ghosts, killing prodmen, butchers, and most infested will get you melee ghosts, and killing Nox, ancients and nullifiers get you defense ghosts. Attack power of ghosts is based on Nekros' build, so now strength matters a bit more. This way you won't get stuck with a bunch of bubble boys blocking your shots or napalms lighting themselves on fire over and over.

Max number of shadows is now 10. Shield of Shadows drops that number back to 7 but retains its current effects.

Passive: Nekros' damage increases with each shadow he summons, up to 100%.

1: soulpunch- Nekros strikes a target with an intangible force that tears away the enemy's life force. Deals damage and ignores armor and shields and has infinite punchthrough up to its maximum range, diminishing in power with each subsequent enemy hit. Enemies killed by soulpunch will become shadows automatically if the max number of shadows is not reached yet, and will refund 50% of the energy used if max shadows are already active.

This can be used as an alternative way to summon shadows if you need to replace one or two instead of using 4 to do it. It also gives you better control over what type of shadow you will get.

2: Soul Sacrifice- Nekros converts a shadow into a projectile fired from his hands, which explodes and deals damage. Alternatively Nekros can fire the shot at his feet and heal himself by doing so. Holding the button will charge the projectile by sacrificing additional shadows, adding one every .5 seconds. Healing effect is 5% of max health for every shadow sacrificed. Can be rapid fired by mashing the button.

3: Desecrate - same as before but in addition to the loot rolling desecrated corpses now have a 10% chance to burst, causing toxin procs on nearby enemies.

4: Army of the Dead - Max number of shadows is now 10. Pressing 4 while aiming marks an enemy, causing shadows to direct all attacks at the marked enemy until it dies or a new enemy is marked.

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